The top 1% pay 40% of the taxes, and the top 2% pay almost 50%. Each one of them probably pays more in taxes each year than anyone posting comments here earns. That sure applies to me!
There was a cashier hired at just above minimum wage. A customer didn’t want a “perishable” valued at under $7.00. No one came to bring it back to the cooler (after numerous attempts to get someone to do it). The cashier was held responsible (even though “cashiering”) and the loss, if it occurs again, is grounds toward dismissal. Do some math on this one and you’ll see which is valued more at this place. Profit or employment.
AuH2O is playing games with numbers again. The percentage of government revenue in terms of income tax paid by a given percentage is NOT the same as the percentage of one’s individual income paid in terms of income tax. Rich people are not paying 40% of their income.
Nor is it the same as total tax burden, which produces some very different numbers, since not all taxes are income tax - FICA, for example.
The poorer not only have less money, and pay a relatively higher percentage of it than the rich; they also have fewer sources of income than the wealthy, and not all of those are covered by income tax.
So: The poor have limited income and pay more taxes on it; the rich have far more income, more kinds of income, and pay taxes on only some of it.
The “fact” that the rich pay 40% of the tax revenue is actually better understood in light of the fact that the top-earning 20 percent of Americans – those making more than $100,000 each year – received 49.4 percent of all income generated in the U.S.
It is also better understood in that the gap between rich and poor in America is the largest on record: the ratio of income between the top 20% and poverty level is 14.5-to-1. The low was in 1968: 7.69. So the rich are richer and the poor are poorer. They have it, why shouldn’t they pay a fair percentage of the tax on it?
http://tinyurl.com/28kzfy7
The top 1% pay less in percentage of income than those in the middle class.
Fact.
What happens is people like Warren Buffett — and he says this himself…pay 15 percent on the millions of dollars that they earn from wealth income… while their secretary is paying a higher rate on her work income. It’s not right
On his $46.9-million income for 2006, he said, he paid a 17.7 percent tax rate. His secretary and other staffers had a tax rate that was 32.9 percent on average, Buffett told the crowd.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/oct/17/john-edwards/rich-man-low-tax/
So yes, the “upper 1%” do pay a larger overall percentage than the rest of the country — because they have usurped the vast majority of the wealth, by proportion. This is also a fact.
Question… how come so many of the Obama desired appointees, all wealthy libs, had not paid their taxes? How come that occurs to so few Reps (though they are NOT free from guilt too)?
Intellectual honesty starts outside the boundaries of Party Politics. In the past many years, Dems had acquired far more money than Reps in running for office and had far more of the wealthiest class donating. It’s not to say that there aren’t many wealthy conservatives, but stop demonizing people you don’t know jack about… it’s all assumptions on your part… that’s why the Donkey fits.
There is a fact that the very small wealthiest percentage of this nation (2%) pay over half of the tax revenue of this nation. It’s also a fact they they don’t pay their full percentage because they hide money, have tax write offs, loop holes, etc. AND??? Stop whining you ninnies.
It’s as though that means anything. All I hear is jealousy. Especially with so many people getting money back from the government instead of having to pay. You are just mad because you want what they have without working for it and achieving it within your own ability and effort. You are just spoiled, greedy little children begging for and demanding hand outs without a clue to the effect your actions result in.
I have never made more than 25k in one year in my life. I’ve even been homeless, twice. It’s not because of some wealthy people that I have failed at times or have not prospered to their levels. IT’S MY FAULT… mixed with fate, luck, or what ever you believe in.
Try being appreciative for a change. If you WANT to pay a larger percentage of the national taxes, go right on ahead. Till then, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
There are solutions that have worked, but you don’t seem to like them either. You’d rather make EVERYONE poor instead of allowing many to be wealthy. A shame on you.
Every last one of you needs to spend a year in Mexico, Darfur, Haiti or some other 3rd world country. Maybe then you’d appreciate what you DO have instead of whine for what you don’t. Then spend some time in Japan and China and see how hard some people really work for what little or much they do have… far harder than we do here.
You all are just unappreciative, lazy, pricks. I should know, I was one too. I said the same bull dung all you all did until my head was pulled out of my rear end.
On a different note… I actually thought the comic was funny, slightly unfair but funny.
btw, watch Undercover Boss some time. Maybe try and start your OWN business and see just how hard it really is too and how much you have to sacrifice and such as well as the risks…
“You are just mad because you want what they have without working for it and achieving it within your own ability and effort.”
Bernie Maddoff worked for every penny, right?
“I have never made more than 25k in one year in my life. I’ve even been homeless, twice”
Social Safety Nets are for chumps, right? Incidentally, you attack others for pointing out social inequities and how we should preserve them for those that need them (you, apparently), even when some of us have never needed them. I’m in the same pay bracket as Warren Buffett’s secretary, actually and I’m not jealous of the money others make, sorry to burst your narrative, but money isn’t everything to everyone.
“It’s also a fact they they don’t pay their full percentage because they hide money, have tax write offs, loop holes, etc. AND??? Stop whining you ninnies. ”
I liked the fact that you pointed out the politicians that don’t pay their taxes as “bad” but then disregard it in a generic sense.
“Every last one of you needs to spend a year in Mexico, Darfur, Haiti or some other 3rd world country”
^I’ll give you Bernie Madoff… but again, there’s another great example of good intentions with no wisdom… Meaning good, yet doing bad. He simply proves my key point. But good looking on that one Jade.
…Obviously money isn’t much to me either. I’d rather enjoy my work and hope that it does good… not just pays bills. However, you are not like many other others above Jade - according to their own self incriminating comments.
And yes, I was a short term burden and it merely fed my laziness and selfishness, not solved the problem. I admit that for some it does some good, for a very limited time. After that, welfare like programs do more harm than good. But good point too.
…On your 3rd point. I think you missed the point. That was not directed at politicians, it was directed at the generality of the 2% (of which some do happen to become or are politicians, most of which do pay their taxes… or as far as we know). To elaborate, the point is that the richest sect DO pay taxes (contrary to points made by others) and DO pay the majority of all Federal income… But also DO find ways of not having to pay their declared percentage.
Mind you, I’d rather them give 10 mil to charities that actually DO good then to the gov’t to waste. The gov’t does need money for certain aspects, but it wastes waaaayyy too much. If that means that the liberal owners of Mac and Microsoft get 10 mil tax breaks, then so be it. Yet, they still do pay some percentage of their taxes and it still yields a massive percentage of Federal income.
… last point - Actually, that is what mission trips are for. I’ve done one. Plus, living on the streets with nothing is a pretty good example as well. And I never begged for a dime, didn’t turn to drugs, alcohol or anything. I volunteered every day some where for some program until I could get my act together. There isn’t much more fulfilling than having nothing and yet giving everything you have left (yourself & your time).
I’d say that’s a decent example. But it was a decent try to flip the accusation around. You also neglected the rest of the point.
However, for those who whine about the rich ought to have their own examples before they make foolish and reproachful demands, they should know what they heck they are talking about too. Since external observation seems to fail them, maybe taking an active part in something (high or low) would yield a bit of wisdom.
Ultimately, I’d rather have a few wealthy, somewhat greedy businessmen who DO good than well intention people who DO bad.
Pavlov, your link is to the Tax Foundation, which is run by a group of wealthy Americans who want to pay no tax at all. Their reports are hardly unbiased & factual.
Over the last fifty years, the wealthy continue to receive greater tax cuts, while the percentage on the middle- & working-classes barely moves. Consequently, our tax structure grows ever less fair & more regressive; the gap between the wealthy & the working-class continues to widen, and our federal debt, doubled under Bush-Dick, continues to grow.
Thanks, Djguard, for supporting President Obama’s point. In 2008, he said that both he & Senator McCain should be paying higher taxes. They were wealthy men, who had benefited from society. They needed to give more back. While you had no home, McCain has seven.
Your mention of Mexico, Darfur, & Haiti, is another reason that we need, globally, greater help from the world’s wealthy to help the world’s suffering.
BrianCrook, those same numbers have been quoted by the BBC, NBC, CBS and many others including my local liberal rag (which I actually like reading) and more major newspapers. These are not new numbers or new information. You’ll even find them referenced by multiple government officials and offices. I would not have used the TaxFoundation for the same charge of possible bias either. I would have used the original source. So that’s a good point for Pavlov to know for the future and reasonable for you to point out. Just know that if you were to site a liberal blog/news/etc., it gives Pavlov and other conservatives equal ability to discount your source as being equally untrustworthy and biased. So how then could either side come to an agreement on facts?
I think the last couple major points run together with an answer I think. It’s not McCain’s, Obama’s or America’s or the UN’s responsibility to provide for me a home or to coddle me in my mistakes or trials. I am a stronger, better, more wise and more intelligent man because of my path. But since I was hard headed, lazy and spoiled I had to take the hard path. My hope is that others aren’t forced to learn the hard way.
As such, many of the decisions our government is making are similar in principle to decisions I had made. Instead of being wise and frugal I was loose and hopeful.
The difference is my choices merely effected my life (as I had no family to care for). As a country, the fate of every person is at stake. Too often decisions are made for the benefit of a few at the suffering of many.
Equally, the fate of the world is not necessarily our responsibility. It is theirs first. In so much as we do have responsibility, it is mostly ensuring that we don’t mess our own selves up and our own economy up since so many others rely on it. Continuously spending trillions of dollars every year is not responsible - which ever party decides to do so.
My solution, which I have stated on other threads in the past, regarding taxes is to decrease them overall (equally 20-25% across the board - no favored class) and simplify the tax code by eliminating nearly every loop hole. It worked for Reagan and a similar thing worked for Coolidge. Let us learn from them for once. They both took in more money than their previous counterparts which had much higher taxes.
What is sorely lacking is cutting in spending, which is something all the other European nations are beginning to do. Again, why don’t we learn from them. Liberals here want their old system… but their old system has failed (even Castro has said so… gees). So why progress to failure? That makes no sense.
And congrats then Brian… so then do you think if the government raised taxes on your business and forced you to pay a larger dollar value for health care benefits to your employees… would that make you want to hire more employees and give them more pay than what the pay is now? Or would you decrease on employees, hiring, pay/raises/bonuses and benefits? I would be interested in your response.
And I need to learn how to be more concise… sorry. - and I actually mean that apology.
DJ, man, lighten up. “Unappreciative, lazy, pricks?” I work hard for my money, thanks. And I make a lot of it, and I appreciate it. And I inherited none of it. I made it through two Harvard degrees and a PhD through loans.
I am willing to pay more. I was and am against the Bush tax cuts, which I think are criminally inappropriate in a time of war (remember?) with high deficits. I think we should raise taxes on the top 2%.
I have given money to charities ranging from Covenant House to local schools to the AIDS Action Committee to the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation and the Harvard Graduate School of Education (which has the poorest graduates of any Harvard school). So I don’t really understand your point.
@DjGuardian - I don’t think welfare should be indefinite but I do agree with social safety nets existing. I pay my taxes without complaint and I don’t personally care that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than the top 2%. As long as I can get by on what I make that’s all I need. I don’t need to take money from anyone else. However, we don’t get to control where our taxes go. My focus lies almost entirely on social equality under the Constitution, e.g. marriage equality and DADT repeal. One down, one to go.
The whole rich v poor thing, really to me, is just a side argument against a party that scores political points by bashing people in my community.
cdward over 13 years ago
As the rich pocket ever larger incomes, the rest of the country fails. There is, and historically has been, a direct correlation.
AuH2O over 13 years ago
The top 1% pay 40% of the taxes, and the top 2% pay almost 50%. Each one of them probably pays more in taxes each year than anyone posting comments here earns. That sure applies to me!
Simon_Jester over 13 years ago
^Where you getting those figures from?
And tig knows this is a lie coz he heard it on right wing radio.
Barbaratoo over 13 years ago
There was a cashier hired at just above minimum wage. A customer didn’t want a “perishable” valued at under $7.00. No one came to bring it back to the cooler (after numerous attempts to get someone to do it). The cashier was held responsible (even though “cashiering”) and the loss, if it occurs again, is grounds toward dismissal. Do some math on this one and you’ll see which is valued more at this place. Profit or employment.
sandrino over 13 years ago
The top 2% pay 50% of the taxes? Maybe in Mars but certainly not in the USA.
Motivemagus over 13 years ago
AuH2O is playing games with numbers again. The percentage of government revenue in terms of income tax paid by a given percentage is NOT the same as the percentage of one’s individual income paid in terms of income tax. Rich people are not paying 40% of their income. Nor is it the same as total tax burden, which produces some very different numbers, since not all taxes are income tax - FICA, for example. The poorer not only have less money, and pay a relatively higher percentage of it than the rich; they also have fewer sources of income than the wealthy, and not all of those are covered by income tax. So: The poor have limited income and pay more taxes on it; the rich have far more income, more kinds of income, and pay taxes on only some of it. The “fact” that the rich pay 40% of the tax revenue is actually better understood in light of the fact that the top-earning 20 percent of Americans – those making more than $100,000 each year – received 49.4 percent of all income generated in the U.S. It is also better understood in that the gap between rich and poor in America is the largest on record: the ratio of income between the top 20% and poverty level is 14.5-to-1. The low was in 1968: 7.69. So the rich are richer and the poor are poorer. They have it, why shouldn’t they pay a fair percentage of the tax on it? http://tinyurl.com/28kzfy7
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
The top 1% pay less in percentage of income than those in the middle class.
Fact.
What happens is people like Warren Buffett — and he says this himself…pay 15 percent on the millions of dollars that they earn from wealth income… while their secretary is paying a higher rate on her work income. It’s not right On his $46.9-million income for 2006, he said, he paid a 17.7 percent tax rate. His secretary and other staffers had a tax rate that was 32.9 percent on average, Buffett told the crowd. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/oct/17/john-edwards/rich-man-low-tax/
So yes, the “upper 1%” do pay a larger overall percentage than the rest of the country — because they have usurped the vast majority of the wealth, by proportion. This is also a fact.
DjGuardian over 13 years ago
Question… how come so many of the Obama desired appointees, all wealthy libs, had not paid their taxes? How come that occurs to so few Reps (though they are NOT free from guilt too)?
Intellectual honesty starts outside the boundaries of Party Politics. In the past many years, Dems had acquired far more money than Reps in running for office and had far more of the wealthiest class donating. It’s not to say that there aren’t many wealthy conservatives, but stop demonizing people you don’t know jack about… it’s all assumptions on your part… that’s why the Donkey fits.
There is a fact that the very small wealthiest percentage of this nation (2%) pay over half of the tax revenue of this nation. It’s also a fact they they don’t pay their full percentage because they hide money, have tax write offs, loop holes, etc. AND??? Stop whining you ninnies.
It’s as though that means anything. All I hear is jealousy. Especially with so many people getting money back from the government instead of having to pay. You are just mad because you want what they have without working for it and achieving it within your own ability and effort. You are just spoiled, greedy little children begging for and demanding hand outs without a clue to the effect your actions result in.
I have never made more than 25k in one year in my life. I’ve even been homeless, twice. It’s not because of some wealthy people that I have failed at times or have not prospered to their levels. IT’S MY FAULT… mixed with fate, luck, or what ever you believe in.
Try being appreciative for a change. If you WANT to pay a larger percentage of the national taxes, go right on ahead. Till then, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
There are solutions that have worked, but you don’t seem to like them either. You’d rather make EVERYONE poor instead of allowing many to be wealthy. A shame on you.
Every last one of you needs to spend a year in Mexico, Darfur, Haiti or some other 3rd world country. Maybe then you’d appreciate what you DO have instead of whine for what you don’t. Then spend some time in Japan and China and see how hard some people really work for what little or much they do have… far harder than we do here.
You all are just unappreciative, lazy, pricks. I should know, I was one too. I said the same bull dung all you all did until my head was pulled out of my rear end.
DjGuardian over 13 years ago
On a different note… I actually thought the comic was funny, slightly unfair but funny.
btw, watch Undercover Boss some time. Maybe try and start your OWN business and see just how hard it really is too and how much you have to sacrifice and such as well as the risks…
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“You are just mad because you want what they have without working for it and achieving it within your own ability and effort.”
Bernie Maddoff worked for every penny, right?“I have never made more than 25k in one year in my life. I’ve even been homeless, twice”
Social Safety Nets are for chumps, right? Incidentally, you attack others for pointing out social inequities and how we should preserve them for those that need them (you, apparently), even when some of us have never needed them. I’m in the same pay bracket as Warren Buffett’s secretary, actually and I’m not jealous of the money others make, sorry to burst your narrative, but money isn’t everything to everyone.“It’s also a fact they they don’t pay their full percentage because they hide money, have tax write offs, loop holes, etc. AND??? Stop whining you ninnies. ”
I liked the fact that you pointed out the politicians that don’t pay their taxes as “bad” but then disregard it in a generic sense.“Every last one of you needs to spend a year in Mexico, Darfur, Haiti or some other 3rd world country”
Set an example before making demands.DjGuardian over 13 years ago
^I’ll give you Bernie Madoff… but again, there’s another great example of good intentions with no wisdom… Meaning good, yet doing bad. He simply proves my key point. But good looking on that one Jade.
…Obviously money isn’t much to me either. I’d rather enjoy my work and hope that it does good… not just pays bills. However, you are not like many other others above Jade - according to their own self incriminating comments.
And yes, I was a short term burden and it merely fed my laziness and selfishness, not solved the problem. I admit that for some it does some good, for a very limited time. After that, welfare like programs do more harm than good. But good point too.
…On your 3rd point. I think you missed the point. That was not directed at politicians, it was directed at the generality of the 2% (of which some do happen to become or are politicians, most of which do pay their taxes… or as far as we know). To elaborate, the point is that the richest sect DO pay taxes (contrary to points made by others) and DO pay the majority of all Federal income… But also DO find ways of not having to pay their declared percentage.
Mind you, I’d rather them give 10 mil to charities that actually DO good then to the gov’t to waste. The gov’t does need money for certain aspects, but it wastes waaaayyy too much. If that means that the liberal owners of Mac and Microsoft get 10 mil tax breaks, then so be it. Yet, they still do pay some percentage of their taxes and it still yields a massive percentage of Federal income.
… last point - Actually, that is what mission trips are for. I’ve done one. Plus, living on the streets with nothing is a pretty good example as well. And I never begged for a dime, didn’t turn to drugs, alcohol or anything. I volunteered every day some where for some program until I could get my act together. There isn’t much more fulfilling than having nothing and yet giving everything you have left (yourself & your time).
I’d say that’s a decent example. But it was a decent try to flip the accusation around. You also neglected the rest of the point.
However, for those who whine about the rich ought to have their own examples before they make foolish and reproachful demands, they should know what they heck they are talking about too. Since external observation seems to fail them, maybe taking an active part in something (high or low) would yield a bit of wisdom.
Ultimately, I’d rather have a few wealthy, somewhat greedy businessmen who DO good than well intention people who DO bad.
BrianCrook over 13 years ago
Pavlov, your link is to the Tax Foundation, which is run by a group of wealthy Americans who want to pay no tax at all. Their reports are hardly unbiased & factual.
Over the last fifty years, the wealthy continue to receive greater tax cuts, while the percentage on the middle- & working-classes barely moves. Consequently, our tax structure grows ever less fair & more regressive; the gap between the wealthy & the working-class continues to widen, and our federal debt, doubled under Bush-Dick, continues to grow.
Thanks, Djguard, for supporting President Obama’s point. In 2008, he said that both he & Senator McCain should be paying higher taxes. They were wealthy men, who had benefited from society. They needed to give more back. While you had no home, McCain has seven.
Your mention of Mexico, Darfur, & Haiti, is another reason that we need, globally, greater help from the world’s wealthy to help the world’s suffering.
By the way, I run my own business.
DjGuardian over 13 years ago
BrianCrook, those same numbers have been quoted by the BBC, NBC, CBS and many others including my local liberal rag (which I actually like reading) and more major newspapers. These are not new numbers or new information. You’ll even find them referenced by multiple government officials and offices. I would not have used the TaxFoundation for the same charge of possible bias either. I would have used the original source. So that’s a good point for Pavlov to know for the future and reasonable for you to point out. Just know that if you were to site a liberal blog/news/etc., it gives Pavlov and other conservatives equal ability to discount your source as being equally untrustworthy and biased. So how then could either side come to an agreement on facts?
I think the last couple major points run together with an answer I think. It’s not McCain’s, Obama’s or America’s or the UN’s responsibility to provide for me a home or to coddle me in my mistakes or trials. I am a stronger, better, more wise and more intelligent man because of my path. But since I was hard headed, lazy and spoiled I had to take the hard path. My hope is that others aren’t forced to learn the hard way.
As such, many of the decisions our government is making are similar in principle to decisions I had made. Instead of being wise and frugal I was loose and hopeful.
The difference is my choices merely effected my life (as I had no family to care for). As a country, the fate of every person is at stake. Too often decisions are made for the benefit of a few at the suffering of many.
Equally, the fate of the world is not necessarily our responsibility. It is theirs first. In so much as we do have responsibility, it is mostly ensuring that we don’t mess our own selves up and our own economy up since so many others rely on it. Continuously spending trillions of dollars every year is not responsible - which ever party decides to do so.
My solution, which I have stated on other threads in the past, regarding taxes is to decrease them overall (equally 20-25% across the board - no favored class) and simplify the tax code by eliminating nearly every loop hole. It worked for Reagan and a similar thing worked for Coolidge. Let us learn from them for once. They both took in more money than their previous counterparts which had much higher taxes.
What is sorely lacking is cutting in spending, which is something all the other European nations are beginning to do. Again, why don’t we learn from them. Liberals here want their old system… but their old system has failed (even Castro has said so… gees). So why progress to failure? That makes no sense.
And congrats then Brian… so then do you think if the government raised taxes on your business and forced you to pay a larger dollar value for health care benefits to your employees… would that make you want to hire more employees and give them more pay than what the pay is now? Or would you decrease on employees, hiring, pay/raises/bonuses and benefits? I would be interested in your response.
And I need to learn how to be more concise… sorry. - and I actually mean that apology.
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
I like this explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIS5n9Oyzsc
Motivemagus over 13 years ago
DJ, man, lighten up. “Unappreciative, lazy, pricks?” I work hard for my money, thanks. And I make a lot of it, and I appreciate it. And I inherited none of it. I made it through two Harvard degrees and a PhD through loans. I am willing to pay more. I was and am against the Bush tax cuts, which I think are criminally inappropriate in a time of war (remember?) with high deficits. I think we should raise taxes on the top 2%. I have given money to charities ranging from Covenant House to local schools to the AIDS Action Committee to the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation and the Harvard Graduate School of Education (which has the poorest graduates of any Harvard school). So I don’t really understand your point.
believecommonsense over 13 years ago
What do you call a combination of plutocracy and oligarchy? The USA.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
@DjGuardian - I don’t think welfare should be indefinite but I do agree with social safety nets existing. I pay my taxes without complaint and I don’t personally care that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than the top 2%. As long as I can get by on what I make that’s all I need. I don’t need to take money from anyone else. However, we don’t get to control where our taxes go. My focus lies almost entirely on social equality under the Constitution, e.g. marriage equality and DADT repeal. One down, one to go.
The whole rich v poor thing, really to me, is just a side argument against a party that scores political points by bashing people in my community.