Non Sequitur by Wiley Miller for December 30, 2010
December 29, 2010
December 31, 2010
Transcript:
Executive: Since we have an agreement of transparency with the feds, I don't need to remind all of you that this meeting never happened. The corporate trust
let me guess, the chart’s top line is for net income and the bottom is for cost of goods sold. Must be an oil company, reporting record profits despite bad economic conditions!
1) Defend the millionaires at your peril but please look at a simple fact. You cry about the evil gov and defend the very rich: Did you take time to note that most of the pols are millionaires also? Obama made his mil selling books. NP came in rich and has leveled laws to defend her fortune. Please realize that capitalism is not the issue, It’s which capitalist gets the every shrinking pie.
RC: if you find anyone actually following Marx today, please let us know. Almost every “commie” country has been blessed or infected (depending on your point of view) with capitalist enterprise one way or the other. One can even argue that it is this influence that has ruined the communist dream and led to worker exploitation by officials who want to please capitalist owners and kept their businesses in the country. This is precisely what Marx said happened under any capitalist regime. I guess you consider the truth evil.
e.g., China succeeds because it’s government provides the health care and “retirement” for its folks and our MBAs love it cause they can tread all over the worker and then wipe their feet on responsibility free rugs.
None of our business and job losses would exist if not for the Reaganite free trade agreements (endorsed by the turncoat Clinton) that give other countries an unfair advantage here and in their countries. the worst president in the history of the country spawned the reality of his dream in the collapse under Bush and the American public should long ago have lynched anyone who uttered the words “trickle down” with anything but contempt. Instead they continue to prove they have no sense of history or reality in voting in MBAs and thinking the business “sense” that got us into trouble will get us out.
The dollar as God has failed and is the anchor dragging us into the sea of despair. So long as we fail to learn from Hoover-nomics we repeat it ( as we just did). The most important class is the middle class and their economic well-being to power the overall economy. The rich will never admit it. But so long as they can convince the workers it’s someone else’s fault and have networks to feed them lies and amusement (Latin: A=not, Muse=think) they will feel safe. Certainly the 15% of the country that just changed the make-up of the congress likes it that way.
RCMinor: Communism as Marx defined it has never been tried outside very small communities, usually motivated by religion (see, for instance, Acts 4:32-37). It is somewhat ironic that Marx, Lenin, Mao, and the others who attempted to implement a communist system were atheists, as they deprived their nations of about the only glue that’s ever been found to hold a communal economy together.
It is also worth noting that Marx predicted communism would arise spontaneously after capitalism collapsed of its own internal contradictions. We have not yet reached the test of that prediction…
@puddleglum, I made that point (about the religious communities), more or less, just two days ago–the second and fourth last comments. The advantages we have are: 1. we are small and know one another, so when we deprive someone of our contribution, it’s personal, 2. we are motivated and held together by our faith, the call to love, and our commitment to each other, 3. when someone is really a problem, we can throw the bum out–and it’s not all that easy to keep up the act for the several years it takes to join in the first place, and 4. even if we don’t contribute all we should, whether because the work we do is not adequately compensated, or because we aren’t doing the work, the lack of families helps compensate: our overhead is not as high as if we all had 2-5+ other people to support.
sayhowURfeelingB4URgone, I did not try to say that we should convince anyone else to live as we do–only that our way of life is the only form of communism that has demonstrated any staying power.
Since we have lasted some 1600 and more years, I hardly think we can be described as “utopian”. We have to live in the real world, no matter how much we separate ourselves from parts of the culture. We eat–almost every day. We (these days) have to pay for health care and insurance and retirement. We have cars that need repairs and gasoline to run. We must obey the laws of the secular society. Nor do we fit the usual definition of a cult (quotes taken from Wikipedia):
Small religious groups lacking in organization and emphasizing the private nature of personal beliefs. Later formulations built on these characteristics while placing an additional emphasis on cults as deviant religious groups “deriving their inspiration from outside of the predominant religious culture.” Sociologists still maintain that unlike sects, which are products of religious schism and therefore maintain a continuity with traditional beliefs and practices, “cults” arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.
We see our inspiration as an intentional commitment to the Christian culture that we stem from, a charismatic (including the sense of “gift of the Spirit”) calling to follow God more closely. We also maintain communion with the greater Church, so are neither a sect (result of a schism) nor a cult (a new religion entirely).
In the mass media, and among average citizens during the 1970s, “cult” gained an increasingly negative connotation, becoming associated with things like kidnapping, brainwashing, psychological abuse, sexual abuse and other criminal activity, and mass suicide.
The only crime that is generally noted among religious orders is sexual abuse–sadly. The other crimes are not associated with any religious orders I am aware of.
Secular cult opponents like those belonging to the anti-cult movement tend to define a “cult” as a group that tends to manipulate, exploit, and control its members. Specific factors in cult behavior are said to include manipulative and authoritarian mind control over members, communal and totalistic organization, aggressive proselytizing, systematic programs of indoctrination, and perpetuation in middle-class communities.
Regarding this definition: I have yet to experience any manipulative mind control, exploitation, or aggressive proselytizing. Members can and have freely left the community–and we have more trouble with people who are unsuitable for the life we live than with people who want to leave but are restrained.
On the other hand, in our experience, communism is not the perfect answer–because we are not perfect human beings. Sin always seems to creep in. In fact, about every 200 years we need to go back to our roots, reform our way of life, and start the cycle over. Still, a 1600 year record does give some evidence that the basic inspiration “works”, and even if we stray regularly, we just as regularly return to the ideal.
I do take back the statement that religious communities are the only form of communism that works: most families also live, more or less, a communist lifestyle. And it works for many of the same reasons I listed above.
Can you give evidence of any other system that has produced evidence for nearly so long?
I apologize for the length of this response, but I felt my point was being missed because I tried to keep my previous comments shorter.
@NightShade09: Karl and Groucho were NOT brothers; different centuries, different continents and finally different media. I’m hoping that you were joking. If not, that might be the topic of a new WIley strip some day…
On the other side of the door are the politicians and bureaucrats seeking to build their power bases by making bigger governments on the basis of needing to control the run-a-way capitalists.
What would have happened in 2008 if the “Too Big to Fail” were sent through bankruptcy? It was a known process to deal with excessive indebtedness and has worked for centuries. Instead we allowed crony capitalism to push us into an unknown world where some companies live while others die.
And before any start tarring with too big a brush, note that many of those big survivors on Wall Street and in the Banks were big political donors of 2 for 1 to which political party?
Like i said, the rich guys are in the senate seats, too, so it’s hardly a real fight for anything but who gets the rich guy pie.
Yeah it is class warfare and Dobbs was right about the war on the middle class and again you folks don’t learn from the ancient history OR the one happening in front of your noses.
It is like the comparison of English and French free masonry. One side wants the rich guys to control everyone., The other side wants the “elite intelligensia” to control everyone. Etiher way, someone wants to tell you what to do and how to do it and throw you out when you no longer suit them.
Monk talks about the classic choice of leaving the world behind for Christ which has functioned well so long as the world doesn’t storm the gates. He must know full well the it succeeds beyond those gates only when Christians storm the world’s gates in a spiritual way. American Christians act too much like they are selling something and looking for the right sales pitch, when they are really talking about the truth of eternity. It’s the money infection. Makes it hard to hear his real point that Christianity is economically the mix of both communist and capital ideals and was on it’s way to working well until the gentile business majors took over completely.
comicgos over 13 years ago
That’s how the ultra-rich got a tax break!
kreole over 13 years ago
I’ve heard of “Off The Record”, but “Off The Books”?
Destiny23 over 13 years ago
No need to let the gov’t know where the bailout money went… (CEO bonuses anyone??)
grapfhics over 13 years ago
So keep shooting, there are plenty enough to go around and we need the practice.
Potrzebie over 13 years ago
let me guess, the chart’s top line is for net income and the bottom is for cost of goods sold. Must be an oil company, reporting record profits despite bad economic conditions!
steverinoCT over 13 years ago
@FishStix: 2 dits = i 3 dits = s 4 dits = h 1 dah = t
(for the record, 1 dit = e)
–former Navy Quartermaster (www.qmss.com)
freeholder1 over 13 years ago
Note to the wrong wing:
1) Defend the millionaires at your peril but please look at a simple fact. You cry about the evil gov and defend the very rich: Did you take time to note that most of the pols are millionaires also? Obama made his mil selling books. NP came in rich and has leveled laws to defend her fortune. Please realize that capitalism is not the issue, It’s which capitalist gets the every shrinking pie.
RC: if you find anyone actually following Marx today, please let us know. Almost every “commie” country has been blessed or infected (depending on your point of view) with capitalist enterprise one way or the other. One can even argue that it is this influence that has ruined the communist dream and led to worker exploitation by officials who want to please capitalist owners and kept their businesses in the country. This is precisely what Marx said happened under any capitalist regime. I guess you consider the truth evil.
e.g., China succeeds because it’s government provides the health care and “retirement” for its folks and our MBAs love it cause they can tread all over the worker and then wipe their feet on responsibility free rugs.
None of our business and job losses would exist if not for the Reaganite free trade agreements (endorsed by the turncoat Clinton) that give other countries an unfair advantage here and in their countries. the worst president in the history of the country spawned the reality of his dream in the collapse under Bush and the American public should long ago have lynched anyone who uttered the words “trickle down” with anything but contempt. Instead they continue to prove they have no sense of history or reality in voting in MBAs and thinking the business “sense” that got us into trouble will get us out.
The dollar as God has failed and is the anchor dragging us into the sea of despair. So long as we fail to learn from Hoover-nomics we repeat it ( as we just did). The most important class is the middle class and their economic well-being to power the overall economy. The rich will never admit it. But so long as they can convince the workers it’s someone else’s fault and have networks to feed them lies and amusement (Latin: A=not, Muse=think) they will feel safe. Certainly the 15% of the country that just changed the make-up of the congress likes it that way.
S_T_F_U over 13 years ago
How many poor people have ever given you a job?
I know it gets repetitive, but where does the govt get money to hand out to the “less fortunate”?
puddleglum1066 over 13 years ago
RCMinor: Communism as Marx defined it has never been tried outside very small communities, usually motivated by religion (see, for instance, Acts 4:32-37). It is somewhat ironic that Marx, Lenin, Mao, and the others who attempted to implement a communist system were atheists, as they deprived their nations of about the only glue that’s ever been found to hold a communal economy together.
It is also worth noting that Marx predicted communism would arise spontaneously after capitalism collapsed of its own internal contradictions. We have not yet reached the test of that prediction…
bmonk over 13 years ago
@puddleglum, I made that point (about the religious communities), more or less, just two days ago–the second and fourth last comments. The advantages we have are: 1. we are small and know one another, so when we deprive someone of our contribution, it’s personal, 2. we are motivated and held together by our faith, the call to love, and our commitment to each other, 3. when someone is really a problem, we can throw the bum out–and it’s not all that easy to keep up the act for the several years it takes to join in the first place, and 4. even if we don’t contribute all we should, whether because the work we do is not adequately compensated, or because we aren’t doing the work, the lack of families helps compensate: our overhead is not as high as if we all had 2-5+ other people to support.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member over 13 years ago
I read this strip everyday but haven’t read the comments for a while. Any one know if Wiley is going to finish the Ekert storyline?
Can't Sleep over 13 years ago
Hilarious cartoon, and equally hilarious comments (“Commiepologists”?!)
History footnote: Karl Marx was never a communist. And neither was his brother, Groucho.
bmonk over 13 years ago
sayhowURfeelingB4URgone, I did not try to say that we should convince anyone else to live as we do–only that our way of life is the only form of communism that has demonstrated any staying power.
Since we have lasted some 1600 and more years, I hardly think we can be described as “utopian”. We have to live in the real world, no matter how much we separate ourselves from parts of the culture. We eat–almost every day. We (these days) have to pay for health care and insurance and retirement. We have cars that need repairs and gasoline to run. We must obey the laws of the secular society. Nor do we fit the usual definition of a cult (quotes taken from Wikipedia):
Small religious groups lacking in organization and emphasizing the private nature of personal beliefs. Later formulations built on these characteristics while placing an additional emphasis on cults as deviant religious groups “deriving their inspiration from outside of the predominant religious culture.” Sociologists still maintain that unlike sects, which are products of religious schism and therefore maintain a continuity with traditional beliefs and practices, “cults” arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.
We see our inspiration as an intentional commitment to the Christian culture that we stem from, a charismatic (including the sense of “gift of the Spirit”) calling to follow God more closely. We also maintain communion with the greater Church, so are neither a sect (result of a schism) nor a cult (a new religion entirely).
In the mass media, and among average citizens during the 1970s, “cult” gained an increasingly negative connotation, becoming associated with things like kidnapping, brainwashing, psychological abuse, sexual abuse and other criminal activity, and mass suicide.
The only crime that is generally noted among religious orders is sexual abuse–sadly. The other crimes are not associated with any religious orders I am aware of.
Secular cult opponents like those belonging to the anti-cult movement tend to define a “cult” as a group that tends to manipulate, exploit, and control its members. Specific factors in cult behavior are said to include manipulative and authoritarian mind control over members, communal and totalistic organization, aggressive proselytizing, systematic programs of indoctrination, and perpetuation in middle-class communities.
Regarding this definition: I have yet to experience any manipulative mind control, exploitation, or aggressive proselytizing. Members can and have freely left the community–and we have more trouble with people who are unsuitable for the life we live than with people who want to leave but are restrained.
On the other hand, in our experience, communism is not the perfect answer–because we are not perfect human beings. Sin always seems to creep in. In fact, about every 200 years we need to go back to our roots, reform our way of life, and start the cycle over. Still, a 1600 year record does give some evidence that the basic inspiration “works”, and even if we stray regularly, we just as regularly return to the ideal.
I do take back the statement that religious communities are the only form of communism that works: most families also live, more or less, a communist lifestyle. And it works for many of the same reasons I listed above.
Can you give evidence of any other system that has produced evidence for nearly so long?
I apologize for the length of this response, but I felt my point was being missed because I tried to keep my previous comments shorter.
syke34 over 13 years ago
Trying to get more bailout money.
citygirlpz over 13 years ago
@NightShade09: Karl and Groucho were NOT brothers; different centuries, different continents and finally different media. I’m hoping that you were joking. If not, that might be the topic of a new WIley strip some day…
benbrilling over 13 years ago
“I learned early on that if you don’t want your memos to get you in trouble some day, just don’t write any.” -Vice President Cheney
lunatic03867 over 13 years ago
See today’s “Argyle Sweater” for the same thing in lawyer’s tersm.
ses1066 over 13 years ago
On the other side of the door are the politicians and bureaucrats seeking to build their power bases by making bigger governments on the basis of needing to control the run-a-way capitalists.
What would have happened in 2008 if the “Too Big to Fail” were sent through bankruptcy? It was a known process to deal with excessive indebtedness and has worked for centuries. Instead we allowed crony capitalism to push us into an unknown world where some companies live while others die.
And before any start tarring with too big a brush, note that many of those big survivors on Wall Street and in the Banks were big political donors of 2 for 1 to which political party?
freeholder1 over 13 years ago
Like i said, the rich guys are in the senate seats, too, so it’s hardly a real fight for anything but who gets the rich guy pie.
Yeah it is class warfare and Dobbs was right about the war on the middle class and again you folks don’t learn from the ancient history OR the one happening in front of your noses.
It is like the comparison of English and French free masonry. One side wants the rich guys to control everyone., The other side wants the “elite intelligensia” to control everyone. Etiher way, someone wants to tell you what to do and how to do it and throw you out when you no longer suit them.
Monk talks about the classic choice of leaving the world behind for Christ which has functioned well so long as the world doesn’t storm the gates. He must know full well the it succeeds beyond those gates only when Christians storm the world’s gates in a spiritual way. American Christians act too much like they are selling something and looking for the right sales pitch, when they are really talking about the truth of eternity. It’s the money infection. Makes it hard to hear his real point that Christianity is economically the mix of both communist and capital ideals and was on it’s way to working well until the gentile business majors took over completely.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member over 13 years ago
Okay, I read this everyday, what and when did I miss it?
Wiley tell me where to look, please!