It isn’t about “gun free” at all, it’s about any target of mass opportunity. There WERE armed guards at Columbine that day. The ARMED guard at the Holocaust Museum was the first one shot and killed. In Bank robberies where shootings go down, the ARMED security is usually the first to be taken down by the bad guys. In test after test scenario, it’s been shown that even TRAINED officers with guns in a schoolroom scenario, would only end up with MORE people being shot!! The only exceptions are where COMBAT VETERANS. who’ve been actually shot at, do keep their cool and remain more controlled in the panic that ensues
This ludicrous NRA meme fails on examination. More guns typically results in more deaths and injuries, period.
These “mass shootings” by the way pale in comparison to the daily carnage on our streets where massive guns in easy access lead to drive bys, and other acts of homicide, made possible ONLY by easy access to guns. It ain’t just the “certifiably nuts” doing most of the shooting.
dtroutma you have have succinctly and intelligently articulated why the ‘give em all guns’ argument is so fallacious. If a child throws a stone at another child in a playground you don’t solve the problem by giving everyone stones…
We had a shooting in Sydney, Australia 2 days ago. A handgun wielded by a radicalised 15 year kid killed an innocent man before the police ‘neutralised’ the situation, killing the 15 year old.
If automatic weapons had been available then the toll could have been catastrophic. Here is the key though. This is the second public gun incident this year is Sydney. Two. Three people killed plus the the perpetrators – so 5 deaths.
No-one I personally know owns a gun here in Australia… and those that do are not living in perpetual fear of being attacked, mugged, raped or that our government will somehow convince it’s own people to turn on others. Our police and military would simply not comply to an order to kill other Australians. Living in the USA sounds frightening. Amazing considering the constant banging on about being ‘the greatest country in the world’ whilst being constantly blessed by a god.
Then please stay there. A machete is a hell of a good weapon when no one else has one. And I guess Oz has forgotten about tyrannical British gov from the past.
@Bar Pluc. It was a hand gun used by the 15 year old. And, just to confirm, it was only the second incident this year of this type. The second. However the deeper issue is cultural. The USA is built on the Cowboy Archetype where disputes are settled by weapons. This is not a trivial or shallow observation.
Wrote a little piece some time ago about the “brave hunter” shooting up signs, that deadly game he stalked around the country, doing millions of dollars in damage every year.
As I’ve noted many times, I AM a gun owner, and as this week is hunting season, do have my rifle ready in wait for the deer to come back in my pasture, where I’ve been feeding ‘em for several years, so it’s kinda’ “farming”. (Also have a current medical situation that makes my usual stalking and taking out deer in the woods a bit out of the question.)
BTW: also have a .45 APC semi-auto with 8 round magazine that I can fire nearly as fast as a full auto, but with much greater accuracy. My M-60 in ’Nam was fired from a helicopter, and an automatic weapon, tracers being your “aimng” device. I never fired my M-16 or other long rifle on automatic, as Palladin said once on “Have Gun Will Travel”, accuracy is far more important than speed. Which, my sidearm on the bird was a .38 revolver, it did the job when needed.
As I’ve gotten older, violence, gun or otherwise, has become more abhorrent to me, maybe having grandkids, who I want to have a long future as my posterity, has something to do with that?
Knowing guns, and a past laced with violence, leads to recognizing restraint, as a sounder policy, whether the neighborhood is around the block, or international in scope.
^Baslim; notable that only around 10% or fewer police officers ever discharge their firearms other than on the range. Many departments are also improving training for dealing with mentally ill folks to reduce the number of shootings in those cases. Actually fireing the weapon is a last resort, and more often, NOT necessary in arrest situations, despite the “movie version”.
Mr. Bingham, EVERY mass shooting in the last three decades has ONLY been stopped by a person with a weapon, one weapon was a folding chair, ALL the rest were guns. The reason none have been stopped by a civilian with a gun is the criminalization of carrying firearms. It is ILLEGAL to carry a firearm in a gun-free zone, one can only carry a firearm after obtaining a concealed carry license. That limits the numbers of ‘civilians carrying a firearm’. In this recent shooting in Oregon, only ONE person has been reported as carrying a firearm on that campus and he was far away from the shooter. If the law makes it impossible for a civilian to carry a firearm it becomes impossible for a citizen to stop such a crime.
Wednesday, Roseburg. On Friday, three were shot and killed, three wounded, in Portland. Didn’t make news outside Oregon TV news and the Portland paper.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
It isn’t about “gun free” at all, it’s about any target of mass opportunity. There WERE armed guards at Columbine that day. The ARMED guard at the Holocaust Museum was the first one shot and killed. In Bank robberies where shootings go down, the ARMED security is usually the first to be taken down by the bad guys. In test after test scenario, it’s been shown that even TRAINED officers with guns in a schoolroom scenario, would only end up with MORE people being shot!! The only exceptions are where COMBAT VETERANS. who’ve been actually shot at, do keep their cool and remain more controlled in the panic that ensues
This ludicrous NRA meme fails on examination. More guns typically results in more deaths and injuries, period.
These “mass shootings” by the way pale in comparison to the daily carnage on our streets where massive guns in easy access lead to drive bys, and other acts of homicide, made possible ONLY by easy access to guns. It ain’t just the “certifiably nuts” doing most of the shooting.
colinmichaeljames over 8 years ago
dtroutma you have have succinctly and intelligently articulated why the ‘give em all guns’ argument is so fallacious. If a child throws a stone at another child in a playground you don’t solve the problem by giving everyone stones…
We had a shooting in Sydney, Australia 2 days ago. A handgun wielded by a radicalised 15 year kid killed an innocent man before the police ‘neutralised’ the situation, killing the 15 year old.
If automatic weapons had been available then the toll could have been catastrophic. Here is the key though. This is the second public gun incident this year is Sydney. Two. Three people killed plus the the perpetrators – so 5 deaths.
No-one I personally know owns a gun here in Australia… and those that do are not living in perpetual fear of being attacked, mugged, raped or that our government will somehow convince it’s own people to turn on others. Our police and military would simply not comply to an order to kill other Australians. Living in the USA sounds frightening. Amazing considering the constant banging on about being ‘the greatest country in the world’ whilst being constantly blessed by a god.
ratflinger Premium Member over 8 years ago
Then please stay there. A machete is a hell of a good weapon when no one else has one. And I guess Oz has forgotten about tyrannical British gov from the past.
oneoldhat over 8 years ago
^ sandy hook shooter stole his guns
colinmichaeljames over 8 years ago
@Bar Pluc. It was a hand gun used by the 15 year old. And, just to confirm, it was only the second incident this year of this type. The second. However the deeper issue is cultural. The USA is built on the Cowboy Archetype where disputes are settled by weapons. This is not a trivial or shallow observation.
oneoldhat over 8 years ago
no bar pluc I do not think that the owner gave permission for the killer to kill her and go sa group of kids
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
Wrote a little piece some time ago about the “brave hunter” shooting up signs, that deadly game he stalked around the country, doing millions of dollars in damage every year.
As I’ve noted many times, I AM a gun owner, and as this week is hunting season, do have my rifle ready in wait for the deer to come back in my pasture, where I’ve been feeding ‘em for several years, so it’s kinda’ “farming”. (Also have a current medical situation that makes my usual stalking and taking out deer in the woods a bit out of the question.)
BTW: also have a .45 APC semi-auto with 8 round magazine that I can fire nearly as fast as a full auto, but with much greater accuracy. My M-60 in ’Nam was fired from a helicopter, and an automatic weapon, tracers being your “aimng” device. I never fired my M-16 or other long rifle on automatic, as Palladin said once on “Have Gun Will Travel”, accuracy is far more important than speed. Which, my sidearm on the bird was a .38 revolver, it did the job when needed.
As I’ve gotten older, violence, gun or otherwise, has become more abhorrent to me, maybe having grandkids, who I want to have a long future as my posterity, has something to do with that?
Knowing guns, and a past laced with violence, leads to recognizing restraint, as a sounder policy, whether the neighborhood is around the block, or international in scope.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
^Baslim; notable that only around 10% or fewer police officers ever discharge their firearms other than on the range. Many departments are also improving training for dealing with mentally ill folks to reduce the number of shootings in those cases. Actually fireing the weapon is a last resort, and more often, NOT necessary in arrest situations, despite the “movie version”.
Bar Pluc over 8 years ago
Mr. Bingham, EVERY mass shooting in the last three decades has ONLY been stopped by a person with a weapon, one weapon was a folding chair, ALL the rest were guns. The reason none have been stopped by a civilian with a gun is the criminalization of carrying firearms. It is ILLEGAL to carry a firearm in a gun-free zone, one can only carry a firearm after obtaining a concealed carry license. That limits the numbers of ‘civilians carrying a firearm’. In this recent shooting in Oregon, only ONE person has been reported as carrying a firearm on that campus and he was far away from the shooter. If the law makes it impossible for a civilian to carry a firearm it becomes impossible for a citizen to stop such a crime.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
Wednesday, Roseburg. On Friday, three were shot and killed, three wounded, in Portland. Didn’t make news outside Oregon TV news and the Portland paper.
press doesn’t go for everyday activiies?