^ Which communist countries? Are there any left? Cubans & North Koreans are in space?
The International Space Station has been a collaboration of various international state space agencies for 15 countries but not China’s because of US objections. So they will launch their own. Great work, collaborating. :-|
Space doesn’t belong to anyone and space ventures should be an international collaboration instead of a space race in order to dominate its use.
I cannot help but look back wistfully at the technology, medical and other knowledge that was a derivitave of the space program. I am sad for the future without the necessity to invent these things.
Yeah, Machado. “Obama will land this country in bankruptcy court…”
You just can’t get your head around the fact that the previous eight years of “government” got us into the horrible economic situation that exists today. It’s like you repubs and teabaggers criticize Obama for not shoveling s–t fast enough, but you forget who filled the place with s–t.
Why don’t you think a little now and then instead of parroting Rush and Glen?
No, that is a little-known Kenyan economist, born in a family with a Muslim parent, belived to have been a Muslim, then an atheist, and not a US citizen.
Maybe we all need to read the entire text of Obama’s comments before we jump to conclusions. He wanted to by pass the next step and go to the advanced step, which will save money, and put us ahead of China, Russia, and India.
Okay, let’s see here, now: extending unemployment benefits is BAD (and thus a waste of taxpayer money), while holding on to outdated relics (more nukes than the military wants and far more than we’ll ever need) and leftover ambitions (let’s go to the moon AGAIN) from the Cold War is GOOD (and easily justifies spending more and more money, despite the deficit and debt).
Hmmm… when you Tea… er, Partiers get your story straight, let me know. I’ll be all ears.
It’s funny how all the republicans and tea baggers complain about all the money Obama is wasting until it comes to something he isn’t spending on. He’s wasting money on stimulus and healthcare but should be spending money on space?
Really, must be nice to live in a world where you think you get it both ways as long as it is what you want. I have teenagers that beleive the same thing. :)
“He wanted to by pass the next step and go to the advanced step, which will save money,”
While it’s always nice to send people to the moon for “feel good” reasons we really don’t have an immediate need to be up there. It is cheaper to use unmanned vehicles, which is where he is directly some of that money. I also find it ironic that people who preach about how he should be cutting spending deride this as something that shouldn’t be done.
The tragic lack of investment in technology and lack of support of engineers has hurt local economies in the short run but damage our future in the long run.
NO ONE will invest in the education with time and money for a job in engineering, physics and astrophysics. If there is no job potential to make it worthwhile, they will pursue other venues where their time and dollars spent will be rewarded.
“Just think, we will have to ask for permission before launching our next spy sattalite. ”
Everyone should be coordinating on that stuff, anyway. Anything that gets launched into space is potentially hazardous space debris that have to be tracked lest they pose danger to the International Space Station or other satellites or future launches.
Wait a minute. BUSH and REAGAN budgets kept axing the manned programs, despite the PR on going to Mars, the reality was cuts in funding-by the administrations.
Obama is now recommending that the PRIVATE ENTERPRISE FOLKS who’ve been under contract anyway, do this job of “ferrying” folks, and that when the economy improves we renew efforts at “bigger” projects.
Exactly why does the “right” now protest the president’s suggestion to us PRIVATE ENTERPRISE???
While 0bama did, does, or wants to take over the autos, the banks, the Wall Street, the health-care economy, energy economy, and on and on, he wants private companies do space exploration.
The right will and does oppose 0bama as a matter of brainless knee-jerk, just as they did with regards to his Afghanistan policy - once he got around to it …
The shuttle was built way bigger than originally proposed to satisfy the Air Force, not manned space needs. We need a bus service, and Obama has challenged in a way private enterprise to come up with a cheaper and more efficient solution, so BRING ‘EM ON!
NASA returned $8 for every $1 invested in it UNTIL it was moved under the Defense Department and out of civilian control. Maybe it’s just the WRONG section of government has been running it.
^ No, not a “salary”, his salary is, according to your link, US$400 000. The rest of his income are royalties from books written years before the presidential bid.
Wait, we have the makings of a new conspiracy here. The whole presidency thing was a way of making more royalties by boosting their sales! Obama has been exposed! He’s just a writer hack!
“and Yes I still belive that Russa is Communist to its core to this day. Communist is just another Party much like the Democrats in the USA”
Sure, but under communism the Communists are not “just another party.” They are THE party.
As for communist to the core, I’m not that much of a judge of the Russian character, but I’d say Russians like a party that can guarantee them a relatively comfortable living. Whether it’s right-wing or not is not that important… Putin’s party is iirc center-right, as was Yeltzin’s party before him.
” … under communism the Communists are not “just another party.” They are THE party.”
In theory, Communism espouses democracy, including freedom of peach and other trappings of democracy - read Lenin, for example.
In reality however, when the Communists discovered that people differ from ants, and that they needed to be forced fed the ‘good things that the ideology had to offer’.
The idea was that once the people became accustomed to and dependent upon all those wonderful things, they would be rewarded by allowing democratic confirmation.
It is not unlike the present US Democratic party, that is jamming down our throats that we don’t wont, but they are convinced that once we get used to those things, we will reward them with our votes … .
“In theory, Communism espouses democracy, including freedom of peach and other trappings of democracy - read Lenin, for example.”
I admit, I have not read Lenin’s works first-hand. However, I believe Marx’ idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat was espoused there, as in the original, as a “temporary” measure until a more perfect society could be found - a dictatorship that would be led by the enlightened, such as, gee, let me think, the intellectuals (relative) that form The Party. The idea that this was something Lenin and co came up with during the Russian Civil War or at another point after they came to power is, sorry, absurd. Lenin had been writing about a “vanguard” in the 1900s. So I believe you may be in the wrong there.
If anything, Lenin solidified the position of a communist inteligentsia that is imposed without a democratic process, a political revolutionary class (or caste) that is necessary for a communism in Russia. After all, Marx considered communism a natural development in industrialized countries, and Russia was definitely not the most developed country around - so there had to be an adaptation of sorts to make stuff work (just as Mao and co later did their own for societies that were even less developed). Marx’ practical ideal for the “dictatorship” was the Paris commune, which was elected.
In short - we can agree on the narrow fact that communism - either the theoretical ideal or the practical reality - does not recognize the idea of a valid and independent opposition, though we differ on the details. As for your attempt to jam the US democrats into an association with communism - you just couldn’t help yourself, could you? Iseriously think they might be to the right on some issues of, say, German conservatives.
I’ve studied Marxism-Leninism in college, in the then Communist Czechoslovakia, and have read many of Lenin’s works - in Russian …
I can smell a Communist miles away, and 0bama reeks to high heavens. What do you think ‘community organizer” is?
More importantly though, the patronizing nature and methods of the current Democratic Party leadership is astonishingly reminiscent of the arrogance of dictatorship of proletariat …
“I’ve studied Marxism-Leninism in college, in the then Communist Czechoslovakia, and have read many of Lenin’s works - in Russian”
Which reminds me, my father had to study them in Bulgaria. You know what he said when I was speaking to him about some reading in history classes (the Manifesto)? They never studied Marx. Commentaries on Marx, sure. Tons of them. Never actually Marx.
Now, I have no more way of verifying your claims than you verifying mine, but I have seen, if an inkling, of communism. You can choose to believe what you will, but for me saying that the US Democrats are in any way “reminiscent” of the dictatorship or the proletariat is like saying that patriotism is “reminiscent” of dictatorship, or that the Pope is “reminiscent” of the Inquisition. And as for patronizing nature and methods, it doesn’t help your case that you basically say “Don’t argue with me, I know better ;) “.
Well, Communism is a very sore subject for me. Particularly since it is so misunderstood and mis-characterized, especially in the US.
Great focus is given to the dictatorial nature of all regimes that attempted to impose a like philosophy, rather than on the core, and the biggest problem that I have with it, which is the degradation, if not a complete elimination of an INDIVIDUAL.
That is why the comparison with an ant hill - a perfect example of a functioning commune.
It is hard to REALLY know what technology, etc. is available but not being used today…..
Twenty-eight years ago I was employed by a large computer firm, we had the ability to run computer programs on large mainframes which required much floor space and had air-conditioning issues. However these same computer programs could also be run on what we have today, desktop computers or laptops. I was perplexed by the fact that it was possible and NO ONE used the hardware and software available at that time. When I left the company I made them very aware that large mainframe computers were useful for large companies who ran database programs all day long, but other computer programs which did not require large volumes of input data could be run on desktop computers (i.e. windows, etc)….
I do not know how long this technology was available, BUT I know we have not been using it long!!!!
For instance, there is software available which allows restaurants and retail stores the ability to sell their merchandise with little or no human contact. Today we use the internet to place these orders, where merchants take orders online or through consoles they establish at their merchandise pickup sites.
This method has been used in various ways over the years at grocery and appliance stores…. Warehouses existed, however; customers did not roam all over the store, information was available about the merchandise; you placed your order and knew immediately if what you ordered was available; your order was delivered or picked up and your merchandise was not damaged. Overall, there was less overhead cost for the merchant, and the customer experience was positive, with the customer receiving the quality of product and service they wanted.
Why are we not as efficient as we were years ago?
Why isn’t quality and security as important as it was years ago?
Why aren’t we using the technology available to us?
Peter and Ayn Rand have the same problem. Yes, Communism as “practiced” in the Soviet Union, China, and other countries does sorta’ suck. But “Capitalism” without restraints is JUST as totalitarian. In a republic, we can balance capitalist economic theory with social responsible actions, that is NOT what Friedman and the “Chicago Boys” brought to other nations, or proposed at home.
You mean “the Big Lie”. Peter. Nazi tactic stolen by the Communists. Make up a lie, like “Jews are Evil and the source of all our problems” and repeat it over and over until people believe it. Used by the re]pubs since the ‘50’s Commie scare era?
Fox News is a prime purveyor these days. They seem to have a morning meeting, agree on the agenda of the moment, agree on the party line and then repeat it over and over until their “regulars” believe it.
Other media have certainly taken up their gauntlet and MSNBC seems intent on it’s own “narrative”. It’s just that the Dems are so fractured, they can’t get into agreement on which lie to stress.
This has been going on a very long time with them. At a Moratorium march against the VIETNAM War held right after the Kent State massacre, we were supposed to be talking about ending the war and some farm labor organizer got up and talked about the need to not buy grapes! This was 1969.
So the notion that they are some kind of evil conspiracy united to destroy American values gets a large Ha-ha.
What makes THEM laugh is seeing the Tea Party fracture the Republican following, lie about being “independent” and make them winning in the next two elections a much easier matter. They understand division kills, they’ve been living it for quite some time.
OmqR-IV.0 about 14 years ago
^ Which communist countries? Are there any left? Cubans & North Koreans are in space? The International Space Station has been a collaboration of various international state space agencies for 15 countries but not China’s because of US objections. So they will launch their own. Great work, collaborating. :-|
Space doesn’t belong to anyone and space ventures should be an international collaboration instead of a space race in order to dominate its use.
Prof_Bleen about 14 years ago
Uh, Russia is no longer communist. I’m not sure, but it may be cheaper to buy tickets for a ride on a Soyuz rocket than to fly the Space Shuttle.
JerryGorton about 14 years ago
I cannot help but look back wistfully at the technology, medical and other knowledge that was a derivitave of the space program. I am sad for the future without the necessity to invent these things.
eepatte about 14 years ago
Yeah, Machado. “Obama will land this country in bankruptcy court…”
You just can’t get your head around the fact that the previous eight years of “government” got us into the horrible economic situation that exists today. It’s like you repubs and teabaggers criticize Obama for not shoveling s–t fast enough, but you forget who filled the place with s–t. Why don’t you think a little now and then instead of parroting Rush and Glen?
Doreen Rice Premium Member about 14 years ago
No - He’s Barack Hussein Obama !!! He is dong a fantastic job considering what he has had to clean up!!!! Woot Woot!
zev.farkas about 14 years ago
so, what is the rush? (serious question - anyone have serious answers - i’m willing to listen)
Gypsy8 about 14 years ago
More than enough problems on earth to solve without tackling outer space.
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
“No - He’s Barack Hussein Obama !!!”
No, that is a little-known Kenyan economist, born in a family with a Muslim parent, belived to have been a Muslim, then an atheist, and not a US citizen.
You are thinking of Barack Hussain Obama II ;) .
Nighthawks Premium Member about 14 years ago
this country’s economy was BOOMING in the sixties, this is not a valid comparison
BoxCar66 about 14 years ago
Maybe we all need to read the entire text of Obama’s comments before we jump to conclusions. He wanted to by pass the next step and go to the advanced step, which will save money, and put us ahead of China, Russia, and India.
halfabug about 14 years ago
he is always in a rush to do nothing,what happened?
Wildcard24365 about 14 years ago
Okay, let’s see here, now: extending unemployment benefits is BAD (and thus a waste of taxpayer money), while holding on to outdated relics (more nukes than the military wants and far more than we’ll ever need) and leftover ambitions (let’s go to the moon AGAIN) from the Cold War is GOOD (and easily justifies spending more and more money, despite the deficit and debt).
Hmmm… when you Tea… er, Partiers get your story straight, let me know. I’ll be all ears.
ducher about 14 years ago
It’s funny how all the republicans and tea baggers complain about all the money Obama is wasting until it comes to something he isn’t spending on. He’s wasting money on stimulus and healthcare but should be spending money on space?
Really, must be nice to live in a world where you think you get it both ways as long as it is what you want. I have teenagers that beleive the same thing. :)
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“He wanted to by pass the next step and go to the advanced step, which will save money,”
While it’s always nice to send people to the moon for “feel good” reasons we really don’t have an immediate need to be up there. It is cheaper to use unmanned vehicles, which is where he is directly some of that money. I also find it ironic that people who preach about how he should be cutting spending deride this as something that shouldn’t be done.petergrt about 14 years ago
It is a simple question of what matters the Federal Government ought to be involved in, and which they should the hell out of..
Space exploration is not well suited for states’ to be involved in.
Conversely, over 80% of what the feds are or attempting to control, should be states’ matters.
Imajs Premium Member about 14 years ago
The tragic lack of investment in technology and lack of support of engineers has hurt local economies in the short run but damage our future in the long run. NO ONE will invest in the education with time and money for a job in engineering, physics and astrophysics. If there is no job potential to make it worthwhile, they will pursue other venues where their time and dollars spent will be rewarded.
wolfhoundblues1 about 14 years ago
Just think, we will have to ask for permission before launching our next spy sattalite.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Just think, we will have to ask for permission before launching our next spy sattalite. ”
Everyone should be coordinating on that stuff, anyway. Anything that gets launched into space is potentially hazardous space debris that have to be tracked lest they pose danger to the International Space Station or other satellites or future launches.Dtroutma about 14 years ago
Wait a minute. BUSH and REAGAN budgets kept axing the manned programs, despite the PR on going to Mars, the reality was cuts in funding-by the administrations.
Obama is now recommending that the PRIVATE ENTERPRISE FOLKS who’ve been under contract anyway, do this job of “ferrying” folks, and that when the economy improves we renew efforts at “bigger” projects.
Exactly why does the “right” now protest the president’s suggestion to us PRIVATE ENTERPRISE???
petergrt about 14 years ago
That is breathtaking!
While 0bama did, does, or wants to take over the autos, the banks, the Wall Street, the health-care economy, energy economy, and on and on, he wants private companies do space exploration.
Is this a “B” movie, or what?!?
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Exactly why does the “right” now protest the president’s suggestion to us PRIVATE ENTERPRISE???”
Because it’s Obama and they have to oppose Obama on everything even if it fits their ideology or they will get voted out in November.petergrt about 14 years ago
That’s right!
The right will and does oppose 0bama as a matter of brainless knee-jerk, just as they did with regards to his Afghanistan policy - once he got around to it …
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 14 years ago
R_Nooman; Russia is communist? Where have you been for the last twenty years?
Some still think Russia is the enemy…no wonder they can’t win the war on terror, they are still focussed on the enemy from 1963.
Arrives en ville, chose!
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
The shuttle was built way bigger than originally proposed to satisfy the Air Force, not manned space needs. We need a bus service, and Obama has challenged in a way private enterprise to come up with a cheaper and more efficient solution, so BRING ‘EM ON!
freeholder1 about 14 years ago
NASA returned $8 for every $1 invested in it UNTIL it was moved under the Defense Department and out of civilian control. Maybe it’s just the WRONG section of government has been running it.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Some still think Russia is the enemy…no wonder they can’t win the war on terror, they are still focussed on the enemy from 1963.”
Which is why we should still be producing F-22s. Y’know, we need them to … fight the enemy of the unforeseen future.“But I guess now that the Left is in Controle we on the Right should just SHUT THE BLEEP up.”
I do believe that was the mantra of the Right for those 8 years. Dissent was “unpatriotic” then.comYics about 14 years ago
Well at least Obama gathered a $5 million salary for 2009.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obamas-55-million-income-18-apf-633904471.html?x=0
OmqR-IV.0 about 14 years ago
^ No, not a “salary”, his salary is, according to your link, US$400 000. The rest of his income are royalties from books written years before the presidential bid.
Wait, we have the makings of a new conspiracy here. The whole presidency thing was a way of making more royalties by boosting their sales! Obama has been exposed! He’s just a writer hack!
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
“and Yes I still belive that Russa is Communist to its core to this day. Communist is just another Party much like the Democrats in the USA”
Sure, but under communism the Communists are not “just another party.” They are THE party.
As for communist to the core, I’m not that much of a judge of the Russian character, but I’d say Russians like a party that can guarantee them a relatively comfortable living. Whether it’s right-wing or not is not that important… Putin’s party is iirc center-right, as was Yeltzin’s party before him.
petergrt about 14 years ago
” … under communism the Communists are not “just another party.” They are THE party.”
In theory, Communism espouses democracy, including freedom of peach and other trappings of democracy - read Lenin, for example.
In reality however, when the Communists discovered that people differ from ants, and that they needed to be forced fed the ‘good things that the ideology had to offer’. The idea was that once the people became accustomed to and dependent upon all those wonderful things, they would be rewarded by allowing democratic confirmation.
It is not unlike the present US Democratic party, that is jamming down our throats that we don’t wont, but they are convinced that once we get used to those things, we will reward them with our votes … .
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
“In theory, Communism espouses democracy, including freedom of peach and other trappings of democracy - read Lenin, for example.”
I admit, I have not read Lenin’s works first-hand. However, I believe Marx’ idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat was espoused there, as in the original, as a “temporary” measure until a more perfect society could be found - a dictatorship that would be led by the enlightened, such as, gee, let me think, the intellectuals (relative) that form The Party. The idea that this was something Lenin and co came up with during the Russian Civil War or at another point after they came to power is, sorry, absurd. Lenin had been writing about a “vanguard” in the 1900s. So I believe you may be in the wrong there.
If anything, Lenin solidified the position of a communist inteligentsia that is imposed without a democratic process, a political revolutionary class (or caste) that is necessary for a communism in Russia. After all, Marx considered communism a natural development in industrialized countries, and Russia was definitely not the most developed country around - so there had to be an adaptation of sorts to make stuff work (just as Mao and co later did their own for societies that were even less developed). Marx’ practical ideal for the “dictatorship” was the Paris commune, which was elected.
In short - we can agree on the narrow fact that communism - either the theoretical ideal or the practical reality - does not recognize the idea of a valid and independent opposition, though we differ on the details. As for your attempt to jam the US democrats into an association with communism - you just couldn’t help yourself, could you? Iseriously think they might be to the right on some issues of, say, German conservatives.
petergrt about 14 years ago
“I have not read Lenin’s works first-hand.”
You should have stopped there …
I’ve studied Marxism-Leninism in college, in the then Communist Czechoslovakia, and have read many of Lenin’s works - in Russian …
I can smell a Communist miles away, and 0bama reeks to high heavens. What do you think ‘community organizer” is?
More importantly though, the patronizing nature and methods of the current Democratic Party leadership is astonishingly reminiscent of the arrogance of dictatorship of proletariat …
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
“I’ve studied Marxism-Leninism in college, in the then Communist Czechoslovakia, and have read many of Lenin’s works - in Russian”
Which reminds me, my father had to study them in Bulgaria. You know what he said when I was speaking to him about some reading in history classes (the Manifesto)? They never studied Marx. Commentaries on Marx, sure. Tons of them. Never actually Marx.
Now, I have no more way of verifying your claims than you verifying mine, but I have seen, if an inkling, of communism. You can choose to believe what you will, but for me saying that the US Democrats are in any way “reminiscent” of the dictatorship or the proletariat is like saying that patriotism is “reminiscent” of dictatorship, or that the Pope is “reminiscent” of the Inquisition. And as for patronizing nature and methods, it doesn’t help your case that you basically say “Don’t argue with me, I know better ;) “.
petergrt about 14 years ago
Well, Communism is a very sore subject for me. Particularly since it is so misunderstood and mis-characterized, especially in the US.
Great focus is given to the dictatorial nature of all regimes that attempted to impose a like philosophy, rather than on the core, and the biggest problem that I have with it, which is the degradation, if not a complete elimination of an INDIVIDUAL.
That is why the comparison with an ant hill - a perfect example of a functioning commune.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 14 years ago
^So you know that if this place was so communist right now, you’d be in a “reeducation” camp.
SherriannPederson about 14 years ago
It is hard to REALLY know what technology, etc. is available but not being used today…..
Twenty-eight years ago I was employed by a large computer firm, we had the ability to run computer programs on large mainframes which required much floor space and had air-conditioning issues. However these same computer programs could also be run on what we have today, desktop computers or laptops. I was perplexed by the fact that it was possible and NO ONE used the hardware and software available at that time. When I left the company I made them very aware that large mainframe computers were useful for large companies who ran database programs all day long, but other computer programs which did not require large volumes of input data could be run on desktop computers (i.e. windows, etc)….
I do not know how long this technology was available, BUT I know we have not been using it long!!!!
For instance, there is software available which allows restaurants and retail stores the ability to sell their merchandise with little or no human contact. Today we use the internet to place these orders, where merchants take orders online or through consoles they establish at their merchandise pickup sites. This method has been used in various ways over the years at grocery and appliance stores…. Warehouses existed, however; customers did not roam all over the store, information was available about the merchandise; you placed your order and knew immediately if what you ordered was available; your order was delivered or picked up and your merchandise was not damaged. Overall, there was less overhead cost for the merchant, and the customer experience was positive, with the customer receiving the quality of product and service they wanted.
Why are we not as efficient as we were years ago? Why isn’t quality and security as important as it was years ago? Why aren’t we using the technology available to us?
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
Peter and Ayn Rand have the same problem. Yes, Communism as “practiced” in the Soviet Union, China, and other countries does sorta’ suck. But “Capitalism” without restraints is JUST as totalitarian. In a republic, we can balance capitalist economic theory with social responsible actions, that is NOT what Friedman and the “Chicago Boys” brought to other nations, or proposed at home.
petergrt about 14 years ago
” … if this place was so communist right now, you’d be in a “reeducation” camp.”
And we are - the Mainstream News Media does a better job than the best of Communist or Goebbels brainwashing ever did.
freeholder1 about 14 years ago
Brainwashing? Mr. Romney? :0)
You mean “the Big Lie”. Peter. Nazi tactic stolen by the Communists. Make up a lie, like “Jews are Evil and the source of all our problems” and repeat it over and over until people believe it. Used by the re]pubs since the ‘50’s Commie scare era?
Fox News is a prime purveyor these days. They seem to have a morning meeting, agree on the agenda of the moment, agree on the party line and then repeat it over and over until their “regulars” believe it.
Other media have certainly taken up their gauntlet and MSNBC seems intent on it’s own “narrative”. It’s just that the Dems are so fractured, they can’t get into agreement on which lie to stress.
This has been going on a very long time with them. At a Moratorium march against the VIETNAM War held right after the Kent State massacre, we were supposed to be talking about ending the war and some farm labor organizer got up and talked about the need to not buy grapes! This was 1969.
So the notion that they are some kind of evil conspiracy united to destroy American values gets a large Ha-ha.
What makes THEM laugh is seeing the Tea Party fracture the Republican following, lie about being “independent” and make them winning in the next two elections a much easier matter. They understand division kills, they’ve been living it for quite some time.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 14 years ago
Pete; you compared the media (there’s an off button on your tv, you know) to a camp?
Farewell, in case you don’t make it past those evil 11 o’clock news…sniff.
comYics about 14 years ago
$5.5 million in 2009. $5.5 million in 2009. $5.5 million in 2009. $5.5 million in 2009.
petergrt about 14 years ago
freeholder1:
You sound as a teabagger is supposed to sound …
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
Was that supposed to be a compliment?