Steve Kelley for December 11, 2014

I always felt Cheney was the evil behind the throne. George was just a kind of dumb Texas good old boy.

@Radish: Hard to see any difference.

The point of the cartoon since the rightwing commenters missed it: “If you use the same tactics they do, you are no better than they are.”The US has lost the moral high ground because of what the CIA did, not by what the bipartisan intelligence committee wrote.

lets not forget, the catholic church is a past masterat torture.

“Not the same as scaring someone. "So, you are only concerned if the degree of torture and physical or mental destruction is above an arbitrary level?

George is only three points off being watered every day. He got into Ivy League school via nepotism; Obama got in on merit and achievement. D1112, join us here in objective reality.

Anyone who thinks that an IQ can be determined from SAT scores didn’t get very good SAT scores.

Attackers of the CIA enhanced interrogation program are omitting the fact that after 9/11/01 and 3,000 murders by Jihadists under bin Laden and Al Qaeda, the USA and the Western nations needed intel to PREVENT MORE ATTACKS.-The CIA did nothing equal to what Jihadists do daily worldwide in planned murders of people who did nothing that justifies barbaric semi-genocides.-Has the US Leftwing adopted lifelong Flower Child brainwashing for themselves?

Anyone believing Bush and Cheney ever told the truth, on anything related to Iraq, is proof Gruber nailed it on at least THEIR intelligence.

If a guy falls out of a helicopter, is dead in a matter of seconds, and the guy who was sitting next to him talks, was that torture? If a guy is shot, and will surely die, but they keep him alive for three days to interrogate him, without benefit of painkillers until he dies, is THAT torture?

btw; no Afghan or Iraqi citizens took part in the hijackings and attacks on the U.S., by a small terrorist group, not a nation state. WE attacked Afghanistan and Iraq however, and that became a “war”, so therefore any combatants acting against OUR military, WERE combatants in war, just as were the Viet Cong, or shoe on other foot, the “free French” of WW II.

I don’t understand the argument that what “our opponents” do is worse than what we did. If I steal a bicycle, it’s no defense that somebody else stole a car. If the US government tortures people, it shouldn’t be a defense that other people torture people worse. Each house has to be responsible for itself, each country has to be responsible for itself. I want my country to adhere to the highest standards, and I hope other people want the same for their countries.+I do understand (though I don’t agree with) the argument that saving a lot of innocent lives is worth killing or torturing fewer bad people. I think it’s an important argument, but for me it doesn’t work. The problem is that the same argument can be, and is, turned around against us. By and large the people who attack the US think that they are doing a good thing, because they think the US is bad and is killing people, including innocent people, on their side. Somewhere the chain of retribution has to stop.

The important point being missed in the hyperbole is this: If you want REVENGE, then torturing folks will work for you. If you actually want accurate intelligence, there are FAR more effective means that will get you that.

I will also repeat, phsycological torture is FAR more painfull than the mere physical torture, as John McCain, and many others have often spoken to. John obviously suffers still the effects of both physical, AND psychological suffering in custody.

As someone who has been through both USAF SERE school and the more recent Evasion and Conduct After Capture training, what is detailed din the report is WRONG. What you describe is also WRONG, but that does not justify our actions.

So it’s OK to stoop to their level instead? After 25 years on active duty, I am appalled at what I read in that report. We are better than that.

Have you experienced “enhanced interrogation?” I ahve, in SERE training. At the time, we were told that it was immoral and unethical, but that we were being trained to resist it because the bad guys would do it to us. now WE are doing it o captives? NO! Not in my America!

Anweir, having been through SERE, you’re also fully aware of why every instructor at SERE, Navy as well, will tell you, torture doesn’t work, you don’t get facts, only what you want to hear. (My son went through SERE, I went through “things” in ’Nam long before that, like interrogating prisoners, and getting proper answers.)

You’re exactly right Harleyquinn, but don’t expect any sympathy from the O-bots that root for Steve Kelley to carry their water buckets.

So torture (that does not kill) is bad, but assassination via drone with no due process is peachy. Hmmm, gotcha.

But denis1112’s IQ can be estimated from his comments.

Lots of armchair warriors here. I notice no one other than dtroutma answered my question about who had actually undergone such treatment besides myself. How can you call yourselves Conservative if you are so willing to sacrifice what this country stands for to get illusory safety.