Well, at least you didn’t use Pat Roberson’s despicable explanation, av8tor. But are you suggesting that dictators and despots are responsible for an earthquake?
A country with limited infrastructure, limited business and limited trade is in trouble in any case, and when an earthquake takes out EVERY major institution, from the government to the cathedral, past aid is sort of pointless, don’t you think? Because it’s gone.
I think the deeper question is, why is it that the poorest people of our hemisphere who already live in misery, must suffer so much more? It does seem like the poorest often bear the brunt of natural disasters on top of man-made disasters.
Which brings us to questions of theodicy, or what Bart Ehrman calls God’s Problem in his so-named book. No amount of human free choice can be blamed for non-moral evils like earthquakes and tsunamis.
But one truth that we all seem to be hinting at here is that humans do have complicity in the shoddy conditions that make recovery from such disasters so difficult. We are all at fault (from Haitian dictators on down to indifferent Americans) for the disastrous pre-quake condition of the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.
May our response to this tragedy not be limited to the immediate or near-term recovery.
An interesting article on this, which basically blames the Duvaliers (Papa Doc and Baby Doc) for destroying the civil society of Haiti: http://tinyurl.com/yanta3a
I just discovered that Clinton and his foundation have actually done a lot to help, and have been for years. Apparently he’s been spending a lot of time trying to get promised funds for Haiti out of various governments, and has done a great deal to try and fix Haiti for the long term.
Joe Conason: “Over the past several years, his Clinton Global Initiative has served as a platform for the most effective development and rebuilding projects on the island, including Partners in Health, the project created by the legendary Dr. Paul Farmer to fight HIV/AIDS and establish medical clinics in cities, villages and isolated rural areas there. When the current crisis abates and reconstruction resumes, Clinton’s foundation is certain to remain at the center of efforts to bring sustainable water, energy, education, health and economic resources to the Haitians.”
We’ve messed in various ways with Haiti and the DR for a long time- overtly and covertly. Robertson’s statement was idiotic, and typical, of many folks view of Haiti. “It’s their own fault” comes I guess also because they speak French (well, Patois). Most real aid in the area has come from “private” groups- not our government. That SOME of those groups also have “ulterior motives” is overlooked.
From a voodoo dude and son, to a Catholic priest as “Presidents” reflects about as convoluted a “government” as you can find in any hemisphere. The constant is abject poverty and suppression.
Charlie666; raelianism is recognized by the government of Canada, does it mean Canada is a raelian nation. Thank Heavens, no. It only means rituals practized by raelians (ie, weddings) are recognized by the state and that worship places have the same fiscal status as churches and synagogs. I could say the same thing for scientology in the States.
Non-christians are bound to be slaves? How about japanese people (they are shinto/buddhist) and indians (hiduists)? Democracy was born in Athens back when the city was pagan.
We’ve donated already, oldlegodad (to Doctors without Borders, and will again to the Red Cross), but thanks for the reminder. The text-deal, by the way, was set up by Obama’s State Department, run by HIllary Clinton. Anyone care to acknowledge they did good?
charlie, calling voodoo “devil worship” is as ignorant and prejudiced as calling Catholics “idol worshipers.” How cavalierly you dismiss a religion that is a hybrid of African religions and Christianity!
Doctors without borders was already there and lost there three facilities. They ARE doing great work around the world and deserve more support.
Some really disgusting “true color” posts here. As noted Aristede was a Catholic priest, then President. I remain VERY concerned about our republic if certain “good understanding ‘Christians’” get any further power here at home.
The Republicans have been in charge for the 20 of the past 28 years, and in each of those years you can see that the Rich got much Richer, the Poor got poorer, and the rest of us got – Well I can’t use the word I want because GoComic will bleep it out, but it’s the thing you use when you want to screw something together.
The man who coined the term «theodicy» (theodicée), the great mathematician, phycist, philosopher, and diplomat Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz attempted to reconcile the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent diety with the evil that is so evident in the world. His solution was that the relation between evil and good was so complex and intertwined that making the world better in one respect would inevitably make it worse in others ; i e, this was the best of all possible worlds (le meilleur des mondes possibles). Voltaire, as readers of Candide will remember, did not find this analysis wholly convincing, nor do I. But if one wishes to maintain his premises (which, I admit, I find intenable), then Leibnitz’ analysis is probably as good as one can come up with - in any event, without a doubt more accomplished theologically than any work by Marion Gordon Robertson….
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
Well, at least you didn’t use Pat Roberson’s despicable explanation, av8tor. But are you suggesting that dictators and despots are responsible for an earthquake? A country with limited infrastructure, limited business and limited trade is in trouble in any case, and when an earthquake takes out EVERY major institution, from the government to the cathedral, past aid is sort of pointless, don’t you think? Because it’s gone.
cdward over 14 years ago
I think the deeper question is, why is it that the poorest people of our hemisphere who already live in misery, must suffer so much more? It does seem like the poorest often bear the brunt of natural disasters on top of man-made disasters.
toasteroven over 14 years ago
Basically what I was going to say, av8tor. Haiti’s government has been a mess for decades.
tpenna over 14 years ago
Which brings us to questions of theodicy, or what Bart Ehrman calls God’s Problem in his so-named book. No amount of human free choice can be blamed for non-moral evils like earthquakes and tsunamis.
But one truth that we all seem to be hinting at here is that humans do have complicity in the shoddy conditions that make recovery from such disasters so difficult. We are all at fault (from Haitian dictators on down to indifferent Americans) for the disastrous pre-quake condition of the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.
May our response to this tragedy not be limited to the immediate or near-term recovery.
bradwilliams over 14 years ago
Do you think maybe Pat Robertson is looking to boost his fund raising?
Nighthawks Premium Member over 14 years ago
ask pat robertson, he’s got it all figured out
now, send him check so he can continue his ‘ministry’
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
An interesting article on this, which basically blames the Duvaliers (Papa Doc and Baby Doc) for destroying the civil society of Haiti: http://tinyurl.com/yanta3a
parkersinthehouse over 14 years ago
takes money and an honest leader
which they don’t have
have never had
i don’t have answers either
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
I just discovered that Clinton and his foundation have actually done a lot to help, and have been for years. Apparently he’s been spending a lot of time trying to get promised funds for Haiti out of various governments, and has done a great deal to try and fix Haiti for the long term. Joe Conason: “Over the past several years, his Clinton Global Initiative has served as a platform for the most effective development and rebuilding projects on the island, including Partners in Health, the project created by the legendary Dr. Paul Farmer to fight HIV/AIDS and establish medical clinics in cities, villages and isolated rural areas there. When the current crisis abates and reconstruction resumes, Clinton’s foundation is certain to remain at the center of efforts to bring sustainable water, energy, education, health and economic resources to the Haitians.”
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
We’ve messed in various ways with Haiti and the DR for a long time- overtly and covertly. Robertson’s statement was idiotic, and typical, of many folks view of Haiti. “It’s their own fault” comes I guess also because they speak French (well, Patois). Most real aid in the area has come from “private” groups- not our government. That SOME of those groups also have “ulterior motives” is overlooked.
From a voodoo dude and son, to a Catholic priest as “Presidents” reflects about as convoluted a “government” as you can find in any hemisphere. The constant is abject poverty and suppression.
Magnaut over 14 years ago
your choice of leadership did this to you…we made a similar choice….but we got a “worth ’ quake form our Poppa Doc
bradwilliams over 14 years ago
Charlie I believe the creator will keep his own counsel on who is and who is not a Christian.
kevin2b over 14 years ago
voo doo
HARVIN over 14 years ago
Why not?
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 14 years ago
Charlie666; raelianism is recognized by the government of Canada, does it mean Canada is a raelian nation. Thank Heavens, no. It only means rituals practized by raelians (ie, weddings) are recognized by the state and that worship places have the same fiscal status as churches and synagogs. I could say the same thing for scientology in the States.
Non-christians are bound to be slaves? How about japanese people (they are shinto/buddhist) and indians (hiduists)? Democracy was born in Athens back when the city was pagan.
lonecat over 14 years ago
No need for a lengthy post, but a lot of need for donations.
talbert11 over 14 years ago
Show some respect for Haiti. I hope they recover soon.
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
We’ve donated already, oldlegodad (to Doctors without Borders, and will again to the Red Cross), but thanks for the reminder. The text-deal, by the way, was set up by Obama’s State Department, run by HIllary Clinton. Anyone care to acknowledge they did good? charlie, calling voodoo “devil worship” is as ignorant and prejudiced as calling Catholics “idol worshipers.” How cavalierly you dismiss a religion that is a hybrid of African religions and Christianity!
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
Doctors without borders was already there and lost there three facilities. They ARE doing great work around the world and deserve more support.
Some really disgusting “true color” posts here. As noted Aristede was a Catholic priest, then President. I remain VERY concerned about our republic if certain “good understanding ‘Christians’” get any further power here at home.
kennethcwarren64 over 14 years ago
SENOR- Nailed it.
The Republicans have been in charge for the 20 of the past 28 years, and in each of those years you can see that the Rich got much Richer, the Poor got poorer, and the rest of us got – Well I can’t use the word I want because GoComic will bleep it out, but it’s the thing you use when you want to screw something together.
sandrino over 14 years ago
Because if there is a god, he hates Haiti.
mhenriday over 14 years ago
The man who coined the term «theodicy» (theodicée), the great mathematician, phycist, philosopher, and diplomat Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz attempted to reconcile the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent diety with the evil that is so evident in the world. His solution was that the relation between evil and good was so complex and intertwined that making the world better in one respect would inevitably make it worse in others ; i e, this was the best of all possible worlds (le meilleur des mondes possibles). Voltaire, as readers of Candide will remember, did not find this analysis wholly convincing, nor do I. But if one wishes to maintain his premises (which, I admit, I find intenable), then Leibnitz’ analysis is probably as good as one can come up with - in any event, without a doubt more accomplished theologically than any work by Marion Gordon Robertson….
Henri