Ted Rall for January 13, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/31/international/worldspecial/31CND-IRAQ.html

To refresh your memories, fellow commenters.

So Hillary should be in jail and never allowed to be Prez since she voted for it, right?

Come on, Ted. You’re drinking Cheney’s Kool-aid again.Al-Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq.They thought that Saddam was too secular, and he had all the dissidents like them shot.

Then Obama finished the job by letting them have the country with no opposition….

You people are too political and cynical. This isn’t about parties, or terrorism – you have to look at the good side. Think of all the money those contractors were making, and how that stimulated the economy. Well, I guess technically, there weren’t any contracts, at least no bidding on them.

Agreed. But, Obama made no effort to get a Status of Forces agreement and a residual presence in the country like the US did in Europe after WW 2, in Korea, or Kosovo. That presence was largely what kept a hard earned peace.Obama, being the neophyte amateur at foreign policy he is failed and his having idiots as advisors in this area didn’t help.

Of course Al Qaeda is in charge today. They are basically a branch of the See Eye A. I absolutely agree with the premise with this caveat; “foreign wars” are truly meaningless (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq). I can imagine a scenario where “war” truly is meaningful, but we haven’t seen it in quite a long time!

uh, skippy,get the facts straight. throwing psuedo-patriotic phrases into your post doesn’t make it any more true than most of those posts you’ve made. iraq was destroyed under bush. billions of dollars-entire pallets of money-were stolen under bush. the most civilians were killed under bush. let’s not even discuss the destruction of the ‘hearts and minds’ under bush. and, you wonder why al queda is back? talk to someone who lived in the middle east, or better still, talk to many someones who lived there. iraq still doesn’t have water service in most places and the and the utilities are still a shambles- which is how we left them, b.t.w. the people who whine that obama blames bush for everything forget or ignore that it was bush who did this all and that obama was left a steaming pile to clean up. and, you know it takes many times as long to clean up a mess than it did to make it. sheesh.

Clark Kent ONLY mentioned “cheney/shrub/rumsfeld”, so Conservgov only went by what he typed.

Obama appeased them? Nonsense. How about your hero, Ronald Reagan, selling them Stinger missiles and other weapons to finance his own secret war in Central America? How did that go down with you?

Actually, it was more a non-effort on the part of the Obama administration. I don’t think the Germans or Serbs wanted the US presence in their nations either. My point is and was, that Obama handled the diplomacy of the withdrawal with a near complete neglect. This has largely marked all of his foreign policy moves.That is, he tends to be well behind the curve of events and then only gets involved periferrially if at all. He hasn’t taken a leadership role but instead has (intentional or not, to be fair) greatly weakened the US internationally as a result.

Genome, no the US doesn’t have to invade or occupy some nation to project strength. It does have to be consistent in foreign policy an the President, as the nation’s represenative, has to show consistency and strength in the positions he takes. To waffle and be inconsistent and uncaring like Obama has done only encourages those who have designs against the interests of the US..Popular opinion is also one of the lousiest ways to conduct foreign policy a President can take..Ever hear of the “Weinburger Doctrine?” This doctrine argues that public opinion should drive military policy among other things. It is drivel.

Even the ones that were lied to by bush/cheney/rumsfeld etc?

Yes, too bad we can’t make it happen. Especially for the ones that lied the USA into a war in Iraq. Being stuck in the USA is not even close to a punitive sentence for war crimes.

The Bush Admin. did not follow the Weinberger Doctrine’s council.The Weinberger doctrine:

1. The United States should not commit forces to combat unless the vital national interests of the United States or its allies are involved.2. U.S. troops should only be committed wholeheartedly and with the clear intention of winning. Otherwise, troops should not be committed.3. U.S. combat troops should be committed only with clearly defined political and military objectives and with the capacity to accomplish those objectives.4. The relationship between the objectives and the size and composition of the forces committed should be continually reassessed and adjusted if necessary.5. U.S. troops should not be committed to battle without a “reasonable assurance” of the support of U.S. public opinion and Congress.6. The commitment of U.S. troops should be considered only as a last resort.

They blew off 3 & 6, and compromised the value of 5 (“reasonable assurance” does not constitute decision by “popular opinion” – but would we want our Government committing to/waging war without the approval/support of the Citizens ?) by fabricating evidence of 1, to subsume Congress / the public – even our allies. Evidence would suggest that 4 was also ignored (they will welcome us…, Mission: Accomplished !), even when it became apparent that the “Plan” had run out long before the consequences were mitigated. The "Doctrine isn’t bad (as far as it goes) but needs to be followed closely to be called to task later for it’s “Failure”.

Those that questioned were greeted with: “You are either with US, or you are with the terrorists”—G.W.Bush (Sept, 2001)…defame those of variant politics and opinion – we’ll reclaim our “Free Speech” rights when the other guys get in !

They weren’t in power. Saddam was, then we got him out than put in the hump who took all those sweet, sweet dollars.

Obfuscating propaganda.

The “bridge incident” was four mercenaries in the wrong place at the wrong time. Iraq was 4,000+ American troops killed in the wrong war, at the wrong time.

Anyone “disturbed by the images” out of Fallujah at the time should be shown, repeatedly, daily, what a 2,000 pound bomb, or a Hellfire missile, does to small children, and innocent goatherds at HOME in the “wrong place at the wrong time”.

Simply put, “W” was the NUMBER ONE recruiter for Al Qaeda cells across the “Middle East” and South Asia, indeed fertilizer for trees full of nuts. (Hmm, same thing for TEA plants.)

OK, Ted, with this I can agree….stupid fricking war.