Then. there is that other point that the ultra conservatives just love to harp upon. And that is the moral decline of our society. Which is indeed an actual event in our lives. It is in the reason why this is happening that we have different views. The ultra conservatives inevitably blame this on the people themselves (or even worse, Satan, or some other outside influence). The reason is greatly (but not always entirely, nothing is ever 100% in human affairs) due to the economic reality that it is now almost utterly impossible to maintain the so-called nuclear family. That is a family where one wage earner (still usually the husband) works for enough wages and benefits to assure a reasonable living for his/her family. Now, it takes (as you stated) both parents usually working at multiple jobs just to have the basics of living in our civilization.
This has now been going on for at least one, and even probably two generations. And leaves the children largely alone as latch key kids, with practically no supervision in growing up to be reasonable law abiding adults. And so, we have this general decrease in morality, which is to a great extent directly due to the decline of the middle class, and the almost total upward movement of wealth in this country!!!
The greatest proof of this lies in the almost worshipful attitudes of both the left and the right for the time from about the mid 1930’s through the mid 1970’s, when the middle class was actually growing and the nuclear family held sway over American affairs. While, it certainly was not a perfect time, it was a time of far better general morality, and far less greed among the wealthy. But, that was a direct factor of the reasonable distribution of wealth, and not because of some moral decline of Americans in general. My own knowledge of this is at least somewhat direct, as I am now 71 years old and was born and raised during those times, and have lived through the continuing decline of the middle class and American civilization. It is NOT the fault of any particular political party nor administration. Unfortunately, I do not have the answer in how to slow this down, let alone correct it. But then , neither do the ultra conservatives on this site either!!
Major CEO’s have recognized that the current income disparity is a potential powder keg (Citation: The Economist). This is global, not just in the USA. Unfortunately, they have yet to formulate any actions to deal with it.
Their pay and bonuses are in most instances NOT justified by the financial performance of the companies they run
Wake up to reality, Conservative dreamer. . The companies which “downsize” the most workers saying they absolutely HAD to in order to “compete”, have been known to – at the same time – increase the CEO’s salary by a MINIMUM of 35%. That is – by the way, NOT what is meant by “minimum wage”. If they paid themselves 5% less they could give their workers more money, they would spend more, and the economy would improve for EVERYONE., instead of just for the 1%ers.
Absolutely correct…but may I suggest thatyou learn to use proper punctuation ( periods, commas in the right place, and question marks?). Your ideas are sound but you will be more effective if you present them in a more readable fashion. :0)
Wrong..the CEO’s will not be making their greedy outrageous salaries, but their workers will finally be able to earn a LIVING wage.. And those $10 hamburgers will not exist because the CEO’s KNOW that they’d lose all their customers. It is ONLY CEO greed which is the problem here; You are falsifying the argument completely. Typical right wing scare tactics!
“Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases, this keeps the minimum wage worker where the are, still not making a livable wage”—————————————————————-Such a simple concept, yet to some, very confusing.Maybe they think we should pay everybody 100k a year since that’s what some people consider a “living wage”.Since there is no downside (according to libs) to increasing the minimum wage, why not just make it $75 an hour?
^^^^ Not true here. The workers walked off their fast-food job in mid-shift.One lady on our local news said,“I know I might get fired, but it’s worth it because how’s a person supposed to raise 4 kids by herself on $8 an hour!!!”. UNBELIEVABLE!
How about you open your own Banjoaah’s Burgers (kinda has a ring to it) and then you can pay your workers $15 an hour and see how much you will have to charge per meal to even cover your own costs, much less support your family?Then see how many $12 burgers you sell before you go out of business and have to LAY OFF all your employees. I’m sure they will like their $0 an hour paychecks……..
Quote from somewhere: “There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them.”
And who are the “masses”? The top 1% of households in this country own 35% of the nation’s wealth. The top 10% own 80%. The top 20% own 85% of this nation’s wealth.
Clearly, I am talking about the remaining 80% of the households which own only 15% of this nation’s wealth.
Increasing the minimum wage would go a long way toward improving the prosperity of the masses; adding money to the economy significantly improves the economy AND the prosperity of all those of the upper 20%. It is a win-win opportunity.
" The conservative revision of Capitalism is the generation of profit and power by any means, manipulating demand, competition and political expediency to make profits from thin air."
And .. government supported monopolies!
How did we get to the place where so many people think that ‘free market capitalism’ and monopoly commerce are the same ..?
" You do not understand economics, look at history, every time the minimum wage increases the cost of everything increases."
Oddly, some of us remember how the economy was when there were family wage jobs. I don’t recall any CEOs or stockowners starving back then, but there was a thriving economy, all the way to the bottom.
They say gingko biloba supports and improves memory. Worth a try, maybe …
“Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases”
Oddly, that would be no given in a sane world. It only happens here, where if the corporation is forced to pay their labour $.10 more, the CEO takes a $100k raise, which he doesn’t need, and hikes prices.
It would be business suicide, except that it’s happening with the full knowledge and support of the government, which seems happy to insure there is no competition to change the pattern. This means it is ever more difficult to ‘vote with your wallet’, since whatever you buy or wherever you buy it, there is no valid choice which would force the monopolists out of business, or at least into competition.
McDonalds CEO salary went from $4.6 million in 2011, to $13.6 million this year. How much did that increase the cost of a burger and fries, due to what the franchise holder had to pay them?? Oh, right, minimum wage kills the market! HAR!
Right, the big mac will be $10.00 The minimum wage is a joke. It is so far below a living wage that I won’t even discuss it. Maybe our big macs go up, but they go up when electricity goes up, water bills go up, etc. It.is.time!
Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases, this keeps the minimum wage worker where the are, still not making a livable Why the goods are not affected. The bakers of the bread and the slaughterhouse worker are already making over the minimum, The truck drivers are not charging any more they make over the minimum already. The managers make more already. The only additional cost incurred is on the cashiers and food prep. What percentage of the price being paid goes toward them now? Is it even 1 percent? So with such a little percentage actually going toward their labor costs how will the cost of everything go up?
- ". . . .then they came for the trade unions, but I said nothing . . . "
Actually, I should have cheered. Unions were indeed needed at one time. But todays Unions are not Democratic, but instead a bed of thugs. Encouraged by crooked Lawyers.
Oh yeah, Unions struck defense factories during WWII!
Obama should be ashamed of giving Unions sweet heart deals on NOBAMA CARE!
Dtroutma over 10 years ago
Ray Kroc made out okay.
jazzmoose over 10 years ago
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
Then. there is that other point that the ultra conservatives just love to harp upon. And that is the moral decline of our society. Which is indeed an actual event in our lives. It is in the reason why this is happening that we have different views. The ultra conservatives inevitably blame this on the people themselves (or even worse, Satan, or some other outside influence). The reason is greatly (but not always entirely, nothing is ever 100% in human affairs) due to the economic reality that it is now almost utterly impossible to maintain the so-called nuclear family. That is a family where one wage earner (still usually the husband) works for enough wages and benefits to assure a reasonable living for his/her family. Now, it takes (as you stated) both parents usually working at multiple jobs just to have the basics of living in our civilization.
This has now been going on for at least one, and even probably two generations. And leaves the children largely alone as latch key kids, with practically no supervision in growing up to be reasonable law abiding adults. And so, we have this general decrease in morality, which is to a great extent directly due to the decline of the middle class, and the almost total upward movement of wealth in this country!!!
The greatest proof of this lies in the almost worshipful attitudes of both the left and the right for the time from about the mid 1930’s through the mid 1970’s, when the middle class was actually growing and the nuclear family held sway over American affairs. While, it certainly was not a perfect time, it was a time of far better general morality, and far less greed among the wealthy. But, that was a direct factor of the reasonable distribution of wealth, and not because of some moral decline of Americans in general. My own knowledge of this is at least somewhat direct, as I am now 71 years old and was born and raised during those times, and have lived through the continuing decline of the middle class and American civilization. It is NOT the fault of any particular political party nor administration. Unfortunately, I do not have the answer in how to slow this down, let alone correct it. But then , neither do the ultra conservatives on this site either!!
watmiwori over 10 years ago
Stalin was no friend of labour unions, neither.Camps, yes. Unions, no.
Warren Wubker over 10 years ago
Were those pickets actual employees who made the choice to work in fast food, or simply rent-a-pickets?
AAdoglover Premium Member over 10 years ago
Major CEO’s have recognized that the current income disparity is a potential powder keg (Citation: The Economist). This is global, not just in the USA. Unfortunately, they have yet to formulate any actions to deal with it.
Their pay and bonuses are in most instances NOT justified by the financial performance of the companies they run
Shareholders must revolt!
William Bednar Premium Member over 10 years ago
Would YOU revolt if you were the CEO? Think about it.
Pogostiks Premium Member over 10 years ago
Wake up to reality, Conservative dreamer. . The companies which “downsize” the most workers saying they absolutely HAD to in order to “compete”, have been known to – at the same time – increase the CEO’s salary by a MINIMUM of 35%. That is – by the way, NOT what is meant by “minimum wage”. If they paid themselves 5% less they could give their workers more money, they would spend more, and the economy would improve for EVERYONE., instead of just for the 1%ers.
Pogostiks Premium Member over 10 years ago
Absolutely correct…but may I suggest thatyou learn to use proper punctuation ( periods, commas in the right place, and question marks?). Your ideas are sound but you will be more effective if you present them in a more readable fashion. :0)
Pogostiks Premium Member over 10 years ago
Wrong..the CEO’s will not be making their greedy outrageous salaries, but their workers will finally be able to earn a LIVING wage.. And those $10 hamburgers will not exist because the CEO’s KNOW that they’d lose all their customers. It is ONLY CEO greed which is the problem here; You are falsifying the argument completely. Typical right wing scare tactics!
Diane Lee Premium Member over 10 years ago
In a just society “Working Poor” would be an oxymoron.
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
“Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases, this keeps the minimum wage worker where the are, still not making a livable wage”—————————————————————-Such a simple concept, yet to some, very confusing.Maybe they think we should pay everybody 100k a year since that’s what some people consider a “living wage”.Since there is no downside (according to libs) to increasing the minimum wage, why not just make it $75 an hour?
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
^^^^ Not true here. The workers walked off their fast-food job in mid-shift.One lady on our local news said,“I know I might get fired, but it’s worth it because how’s a person supposed to raise 4 kids by herself on $8 an hour!!!”. UNBELIEVABLE!
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
How about you open your own Banjoaah’s Burgers (kinda has a ring to it) and then you can pay your workers $15 an hour and see how much you will have to charge per meal to even cover your own costs, much less support your family?Then see how many $12 burgers you sell before you go out of business and have to LAY OFF all your employees. I’m sure they will like their $0 an hour paychecks……..
YellerDogDemocrat over 10 years ago
Quote from somewhere: “There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them.”
And who are the “masses”? The top 1% of households in this country own 35% of the nation’s wealth. The top 10% own 80%. The top 20% own 85% of this nation’s wealth.
Clearly, I am talking about the remaining 80% of the households which own only 15% of this nation’s wealth.
Increasing the minimum wage would go a long way toward improving the prosperity of the masses; adding money to the economy significantly improves the economy AND the prosperity of all those of the upper 20%. It is a win-win opportunity.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
Yeah, but Will Rogers is out of favour. His classic book (Smoky: A Cowhorse) was purged from libraries over thirty years ago.
He saw things too clearly and wasn’t shy about expressing his opinions.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
“This applies.I wish others knew this….”
Yes .. I try, but I don’t always make the cut :-/ It’s a frustrating business …
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
" The conservative revision of Capitalism is the generation of profit and power by any means, manipulating demand, competition and political expediency to make profits from thin air."
And .. government supported monopolies!
How did we get to the place where so many people think that ‘free market capitalism’ and monopoly commerce are the same ..?
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
" He had many other peculiarities as well. Today he would be in a mental institution not writing books filled with magical thinking."
On the Bowery, maybe – we no longer care for our village idiots. We turn them out to manage the best they can, or starve.
Somehow, that seems somewhat less than ‘civilized’.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
" You do not understand economics, look at history, every time the minimum wage increases the cost of everything increases."
Oddly, some of us remember how the economy was when there were family wage jobs. I don’t recall any CEOs or stockowners starving back then, but there was a thriving economy, all the way to the bottom.
They say gingko biloba supports and improves memory. Worth a try, maybe …
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
@Tigger
“Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases”
Oddly, that would be no given in a sane world. It only happens here, where if the corporation is forced to pay their labour $.10 more, the CEO takes a $100k raise, which he doesn’t need, and hikes prices.
It would be business suicide, except that it’s happening with the full knowledge and support of the government, which seems happy to insure there is no competition to change the pattern. This means it is ever more difficult to ‘vote with your wallet’, since whatever you buy or wherever you buy it, there is no valid choice which would force the monopolists out of business, or at least into competition.
Dtroutma over 10 years ago
McDonalds CEO salary went from $4.6 million in 2011, to $13.6 million this year. How much did that increase the cost of a burger and fries, due to what the franchise holder had to pay them?? Oh, right, minimum wage kills the market! HAR!
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
Ah, the usual highly intelligent response that I and others here have come to expect from you and the same ultra conservative people you deal with.
suellengillot over 10 years ago
Right, the big mac will be $10.00 The minimum wage is a joke. It is so far below a living wage that I won’t even discuss it. Maybe our big macs go up, but they go up when electricity goes up, water bills go up, etc. It.is.time!
Hectoruno over 10 years ago
Every Time the minimum wage increases,, the costs everything increases, this keeps the minimum wage worker where the are, still not making a livable Why the goods are not affected. The bakers of the bread and the slaughterhouse worker are already making over the minimum, The truck drivers are not charging any more they make over the minimum already. The managers make more already. The only additional cost incurred is on the cashiers and food prep. What percentage of the price being paid goes toward them now? Is it even 1 percent? So with such a little percentage actually going toward their labor costs how will the cost of everything go up?
artistdavid over 10 years ago
May I speak for the citizens that unions victimize?
Unions make public projects cost more than they would otherwise.
Boston Transit comes to mind.News Papers and Saw Mills also come to mind.
Closed by the vicious Unionists and their over paid presidents.
artistdavid over 10 years ago
- ". . . .then they came for the trade unions, but I said nothing . . . "
Actually, I should have cheered. Unions were indeed needed at one time. But todays Unions are not Democratic, but instead a bed of thugs. Encouraged by crooked Lawyers.
Oh yeah, Unions struck defense factories during WWII!
Obama should be ashamed of giving Unions sweet heart deals on NOBAMA CARE!
artistdavid over 10 years ago
Union bosses steal from the workers who then steal from the overpriced government contracts.