The first illegal aliens were the Piligrims as they left England in 1609 in violation of English law, the 1559 Act of Uniformity, which demanded that all British citizens attend services and follow the traditions of the Church of England.
In the real Plymouth story, the holy men of the Mayflower killed, kidnapped and tried to enslave natives. They didn’t believe in celebrations or feasting.
My ancestors met the boat, paleface. As for “devastating the land” you don’t know what you’re talking about and I defy you to find ONE reputable scholar who’ll support your claim. So do us all a Thanksgiving solid and STFU!
There were three guys whe were asked, “If you were in the desert, what one thing would you like to have?”The first guy said “A compass so I could find my way out.”The second guy said “A big jug of water so I could stay alive.”The third guy said, “A car door.”Why a car door? “So I could roll down the window and get some air.” -Rachael Maddow
Walruscarver2000: Like Will Rogers, whose ancestors also “met the boat”, mine did too – but ours met Oglethorpe’s, not the Massachusetts one. Missed the Trail of Tears, too.
Ima: as just one example, the short grass prairie did fine under the plains tribes, for millennia, with millions of bison to sustain them. Then came the railroads and the “great whit hunters” to murder the indian by murdering his source of survival. Then the “sodbusters” came in and destroyed that shortgrass prairie, and the “dust bowl” was the result. It took that nasty FDR and sound land management policy to restore, to some extent the land.
BTW, Iowa, and much of the upper midwest was forested when the Europeans moved in, and those forests are gone. The west is likewise losing all forests, because “income” from the land is the only interest of the “corporate structure”. Now that we’re ignoring the AGW issue, the bugs are winning more acres every year in our forests, so let’s follow the Watt wisdom, and just cut them all down.
I can not believe that you even posted such words as that first sentence. Why do you even state such historically incorrect statements?
The plains Indians in particular were indeed quite mobile, but their very living respected not only the land, but the very nature that kept them alive and happy.
There were also Indian tribes that stayed in one place all their long and productive lives. And they also respected and nurtured the land far more that we have since.
I am fully wiling to admit that like all men they too had their wars and hatreds, but certainly no more than we that pushed them off of the lands that were rightfully theirs anyway. The only reality of such actions is that it has been the way of history with whites as well. Human beings through the long and often times sordid history of mankind have conquered and even enslaved other human beings. It is NOT a noble picture of human progress, but it is history, and we have to live with that.
This is one reason why I am glad to see that in at least some cases the Indian tribes are using what is actually a great vice of white people for the good of the Indian people (as long as it does not actually change those things in Indian Culture that are noble and good in themselves). That is the growth of Indian Casinos so that the white people may come and lose their money hopefully for the good of the Indian Tribes themselves. The House always wins, and even does this quite honestly, and that goes for white casinos as well. By the way, I do not gambol myself, not having enough extra income that I can just throw money away. I have read (and it seems true to me at least) that if you wish to gambol, the only way to possibly win is to only gambol with money that you can well afford to lose. To me at least it is all together proper and fitting that this is a form of relatively bloodless revenge upon the weaknesses of white oppression that is now being used for the good of the indigenous people. More power to them in this effort!
I am more than willing to say this and I am fully a White Anglo Saxon Protestant Retired Aerospace Working Male. But, I am also a member in good standing of the human race, and a freedom loving American, that also happens to believe very much in the great philosophy of “Moderation in all things!” Which I also happen to believe (regardless of just who that philosophy is attributed to) is generally the philosophy all shared by our Indian fellow humans also!
But, if you do not like that, then you have my full permission to leave the human race anytime you wish to. Or at the very least place your brain in gear before placing your hands on your keyboard!
At any rate, have a truly great Thanksgiving Day. And that applies to ALL!
No, I am not only not God, as a true Christian I do believe in God. A God that actually owns everything (if he owns ourbeings and souls, then he certainly owns the very land that we live on) so nobody really owns the land (which is just what the Indians have been saying all alone).
And taking care of the land does NOT necessarily mean farming it. Like anything otherwise good farming can really be over done. As witness the “Dust Bowls” of the 1930’s in the mid west.
The relationship of the Native Americans ‘to the land’ was much more complicated than we previously thought.The popular generalizations: “Indians were savages” – or – “White men all bad/Indians all good” – or – “Indians lived in harmony with nature” . . . are over-simplifications that blur a more interesting and nuanced reality (of course).A good book to read on this, is 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus
Everyone needs to get over themselves and accept that all peoples have suffered under the harsh “rule” of another people. If we all would quit pointing fingers and resolve to work together to make the world a better place, maybe something positive will happen. Alas, given the predictability of man, this is merely the pipe dream of a stoned idealist.
You would do well to read “1493”. You’d be utterly amazed what the “Indians” did, and what we owe them. Their mastery of agriculture , and understanding of the environment, was eons ahead of Europe’s. Hell, you might even find out what the slaves did!. Might change your whole political attitude.
On the contrary, sir. Just as grandpa didn’t need to be a biologist to identify a skunk, any reasonable person can identify a troll. As for what I use to fight them, that is my choice. If you choose not to use the same weapons, so be it. That is YOUR right.
…“any reasonable person,” eh? … …Well, from what I see, that pretty much disqualifies YOU, Mr. “my ancestors met th’ boat, paleface”… ‘Still fightin’ that ol’ war? Why don’t you give your bickering belligerence a rest?…
walruscarver2000 over 11 years ago
If only….
taratus over 11 years ago
The first illegal aliens were the Piligrims as they left England in 1609 in violation of English law, the 1559 Act of Uniformity, which demanded that all British citizens attend services and follow the traditions of the Church of England.
Chillbilly over 11 years ago
In the real Plymouth story, the holy men of the Mayflower killed, kidnapped and tried to enslave natives. They didn’t believe in celebrations or feasting.
lonecat over 11 years ago
There’s no point trying to correct Ima. He’s stuck in a very dull groove.
walruscarver2000 over 11 years ago
My ancestors met the boat, paleface. As for “devastating the land” you don’t know what you’re talking about and I defy you to find ONE reputable scholar who’ll support your claim. So do us all a Thanksgiving solid and STFU!
rockngolfer over 11 years ago
There were three guys whe were asked, “If you were in the desert, what one thing would you like to have?”The first guy said “A compass so I could find my way out.”The second guy said “A big jug of water so I could stay alive.”The third guy said, “A car door.”Why a car door? “So I could roll down the window and get some air.” -Rachael Maddow
hippogriff over 11 years ago
Walruscarver2000: Like Will Rogers, whose ancestors also “met the boat”, mine did too – but ours met Oglethorpe’s, not the Massachusetts one. Missed the Trail of Tears, too.
Dtroutma over 11 years ago
Ima: as just one example, the short grass prairie did fine under the plains tribes, for millennia, with millions of bison to sustain them. Then came the railroads and the “great whit hunters” to murder the indian by murdering his source of survival. Then the “sodbusters” came in and destroyed that shortgrass prairie, and the “dust bowl” was the result. It took that nasty FDR and sound land management policy to restore, to some extent the land.
BTW, Iowa, and much of the upper midwest was forested when the Europeans moved in, and those forests are gone. The west is likewise losing all forests, because “income” from the land is the only interest of the “corporate structure”. Now that we’re ignoring the AGW issue, the bugs are winning more acres every year in our forests, so let’s follow the Watt wisdom, and just cut them all down.
frodo1008 over 11 years ago
Dear Lord, you are SUCH an internet Troll!
I can not believe that you even posted such words as that first sentence. Why do you even state such historically incorrect statements?
The plains Indians in particular were indeed quite mobile, but their very living respected not only the land, but the very nature that kept them alive and happy.
There were also Indian tribes that stayed in one place all their long and productive lives. And they also respected and nurtured the land far more that we have since.
I am fully wiling to admit that like all men they too had their wars and hatreds, but certainly no more than we that pushed them off of the lands that were rightfully theirs anyway. The only reality of such actions is that it has been the way of history with whites as well. Human beings through the long and often times sordid history of mankind have conquered and even enslaved other human beings. It is NOT a noble picture of human progress, but it is history, and we have to live with that.
This is one reason why I am glad to see that in at least some cases the Indian tribes are using what is actually a great vice of white people for the good of the Indian people (as long as it does not actually change those things in Indian Culture that are noble and good in themselves). That is the growth of Indian Casinos so that the white people may come and lose their money hopefully for the good of the Indian Tribes themselves. The House always wins, and even does this quite honestly, and that goes for white casinos as well. By the way, I do not gambol myself, not having enough extra income that I can just throw money away. I have read (and it seems true to me at least) that if you wish to gambol, the only way to possibly win is to only gambol with money that you can well afford to lose. To me at least it is all together proper and fitting that this is a form of relatively bloodless revenge upon the weaknesses of white oppression that is now being used for the good of the indigenous people. More power to them in this effort!
I am more than willing to say this and I am fully a White Anglo Saxon Protestant Retired Aerospace Working Male. But, I am also a member in good standing of the human race, and a freedom loving American, that also happens to believe very much in the great philosophy of “Moderation in all things!” Which I also happen to believe (regardless of just who that philosophy is attributed to) is generally the philosophy all shared by our Indian fellow humans also!
But, if you do not like that, then you have my full permission to leave the human race anytime you wish to. Or at the very least place your brain in gear before placing your hands on your keyboard!
At any rate, have a truly great Thanksgiving Day. And that applies to ALL!
frodo1008 over 11 years ago
No, I am not only not God, as a true Christian I do believe in God. A God that actually owns everything (if he owns ourbeings and souls, then he certainly owns the very land that we live on) so nobody really owns the land (which is just what the Indians have been saying all alone).
And taking care of the land does NOT necessarily mean farming it. Like anything otherwise good farming can really be over done. As witness the “Dust Bowls” of the 1930’s in the mid west.
frodo1008 over 11 years ago
I am not a Canadian, so just why would you presume that I would tell the Canadians what to do?
And nowhere in my post did I say to give back the land to even the Native Americans. It is far too late to do that now.
But, an acknowledgement of our wrong doing in just how we took the land from them in the first place, might just be in order.
walruscarver2000 over 11 years ago
DNFTT!!!!
walruscarver2000 over 11 years ago
Doc, DNFT4F
William Bednar Premium Member over 11 years ago
Boehner’s long lost cousins?
corzak over 11 years ago
The relationship of the Native Americans ‘to the land’ was much more complicated than we previously thought.The popular generalizations: “Indians were savages” – or – “White men all bad/Indians all good” – or – “Indians lived in harmony with nature” . . . are over-simplifications that blur a more interesting and nuanced reality (of course).A good book to read on this, is 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus
HashMajin over 11 years ago
Everyone needs to get over themselves and accept that all peoples have suffered under the harsh “rule” of another people. If we all would quit pointing fingers and resolve to work together to make the world a better place, maybe something positive will happen. Alas, given the predictability of man, this is merely the pipe dream of a stoned idealist.
kipeticolas over 11 years ago
Great cartoon. Fun in history. Thank you Mr. Luckovich
Call me Ishmael over 11 years ago
You would do well to read “1493”. You’d be utterly amazed what the “Indians” did, and what we owe them. Their mastery of agriculture , and understanding of the environment, was eons ahead of Europe’s. Hell, you might even find out what the slaves did!. Might change your whole political attitude.
wronhewitt over 11 years ago
walruscarver2000 said, 3 days ago
@JoeCoolLives
On the contrary, sir. Just as grandpa didn’t need to be a biologist to identify a skunk, any reasonable person can identify a troll. As for what I use to fight them, that is my choice. If you choose not to use the same weapons, so be it. That is YOUR right.
…“any reasonable person,” eh? … …Well, from what I see, that pretty much disqualifies YOU, Mr. “my ancestors met th’ boat, paleface”… ‘Still fightin’ that ol’ war? Why don’t you give your bickering belligerence a rest?…