Gladius: “No I Do Not want my fellow citizens carrying weapons around me. Their intentions are not my problem. Their competence is.”
Precisely my point. I have indeed met responsible gun owners but I discovered they were in the minority.
Others on this forum have noted that they do not trust fellow road users because of high levels of drunken driving. I have taken to driving very defensively, especially late at night, as I simply do not trust my fellow road users, irrespective of the country I happen to be driving in.
While I believe many can be responsible with guns or cars, I believe too many aren’t.
Let me be clear: I’m not against gun or car ownership.
But seriously, what exactly do you want to be armed with?
I returned to the country of my birth in the 90s for 4 years.
I had a gun pointed at me twice by drunken fools at a couple bbq parties. They were aware I was uneasy about guns and detested them so thought it amusing to point loaded ones at me. Most rural roads (and some urban) have their road signs peppered by gunshot.
At the company I worked at, my brother & I were just about the only ones who did not have a firearm licence. Despite the company (I.T.) having a “hand in your gun at the door” policy with on-site gunsafes, they were never used except by one of my colleagues who was making a point (about responsibility). Most guns were kept in their owners’ purses, jackets, under their cars’ seats or glove compartments.
(note: many cars are stolen or hi-jacked at gunpoint, so those guns are stolen too, into the hands of the criminals. Btw, hi-jacks often had the assailants opening fire from behind first to avoid a shoot-out confrontation since the likelihood of the driver being armed was high. On the other hand, many hi-jacks have been foiled by gun owners shooting the would-be hi-jacker. The trouble is, as one of my friends who was hi-jacked and didn’t own a gun said, “I was beaten and tortured on my driveway for about 10 mins until they were convinced I had no gun”. They expect people to be armed and want those too.
More anecdotal stuff:
One (of the few) episode in a trendy up-market pub while my work colleagues and I were having a work-dinner do: an armed drunk came into the bar. His gun was in his waist band behind his back.
The pub’s noise dropped a few notches and I saw my colleague to my right take out his gun and lay it on his thigh, under the table. I also saw a few other patrons take out their guns, pointing them to the floor. All anticipating something. Now, this will be great news for those who think a crazed gun toting murderer will be soon brought down. All I thought was, “Oh s*, a frigging gun shoot-out in Dodge City!” Fortunately, the barman had the sense to defuse the situation.
One would-be hero’s gun jammed. A few hundred metres from where I lived, a bank was robbed in plain daylight. The robbers casually sauntered across a plaza heading towards their getaway car about 100 metres away. The hero pointed and pulled the trigger but it jammed (clean your guns people!) One of the robbers came back, made the hero kneel and shot him dead point blank in the head. No-one else, despite the high personal gun-ownership and local populace’s bravado, not unlike ANandy’s “I pity those who live in constant fear of others. I am prepared to deal, as best I can, with a threat.”, made a move against them. They got away. On the other hand, many restaurants’ owners/employees/patrons have foiled armed robberies. On the other other hand, many restaurant & café owners/employees have been killed in shoot-outs with armed robbers.
I witnessed several arguments, usually with “I’ll blow you away” style threats. Road rage incidents on the freeways were authentic OK corral shoot-outs.
The USA is still far from reaching the levels of stupidity and crime which I encountered. While my country of birth was dealing with incredibly high rates of murder, rape and crime in general and it was understandable their reliance of firearms for their protection, it also led to more macho and a looser attitude towards arms by all, honest citizens or not; a vicious circle. And that is what I see in the attitudes in the USA.
Gladius: “No I Do Not want my fellow citizens carrying weapons around me. Their intentions are not my problem. Their competence is.”
Precisely my point. I have indeed met responsible gun owners but I discovered they were in the minority. Others on this forum have noted that they do not trust fellow road users because of high levels of drunken driving. I have taken to driving very defensively, especially late at night, as I simply do not trust my fellow road users, irrespective of the country I happen to be driving in.
While I believe many can be responsible with guns or cars, I believe too many aren’t.
Let me be clear: I’m not against gun or car ownership. But seriously, what exactly do you want to be armed with?
I returned to the country of my birth in the 90s for 4 years. I had a gun pointed at me twice by drunken fools at a couple bbq parties. They were aware I was uneasy about guns and detested them so thought it amusing to point loaded ones at me. Most rural roads (and some urban) have their road signs peppered by gunshot. At the company I worked at, my brother & I were just about the only ones who did not have a firearm licence. Despite the company (I.T.) having a “hand in your gun at the door” policy with on-site gunsafes, they were never used except by one of my colleagues who was making a point (about responsibility). Most guns were kept in their owners’ purses, jackets, under their cars’ seats or glove compartments. (note: many cars are stolen or hi-jacked at gunpoint, so those guns are stolen too, into the hands of the criminals. Btw, hi-jacks often had the assailants opening fire from behind first to avoid a shoot-out confrontation since the likelihood of the driver being armed was high. On the other hand, many hi-jacks have been foiled by gun owners shooting the would-be hi-jacker. The trouble is, as one of my friends who was hi-jacked and didn’t own a gun said, “I was beaten and tortured on my driveway for about 10 mins until they were convinced I had no gun”. They expect people to be armed and want those too.
More anecdotal stuff: One (of the few) episode in a trendy up-market pub while my work colleagues and I were having a work-dinner do: an armed drunk came into the bar. His gun was in his waist band behind his back. The pub’s noise dropped a few notches and I saw my colleague to my right take out his gun and lay it on his thigh, under the table. I also saw a few other patrons take out their guns, pointing them to the floor. All anticipating something. Now, this will be great news for those who think a crazed gun toting murderer will be soon brought down. All I thought was, “Oh s*, a frigging gun shoot-out in Dodge City!” Fortunately, the barman had the sense to defuse the situation.
One would-be hero’s gun jammed. A few hundred metres from where I lived, a bank was robbed in plain daylight. The robbers casually sauntered across a plaza heading towards their getaway car about 100 metres away. The hero pointed and pulled the trigger but it jammed (clean your guns people!) One of the robbers came back, made the hero kneel and shot him dead point blank in the head. No-one else, despite the high personal gun-ownership and local populace’s bravado, not unlike ANandy’s “I pity those who live in constant fear of others. I am prepared to deal, as best I can, with a threat.”, made a move against them. They got away. On the other hand, many restaurants’ owners/employees/patrons have foiled armed robberies. On the other other hand, many restaurant & café owners/employees have been killed in shoot-outs with armed robbers.
I witnessed several arguments, usually with “I’ll blow you away” style threats. Road rage incidents on the freeways were authentic OK corral shoot-outs.
The USA is still far from reaching the levels of stupidity and crime which I encountered. While my country of birth was dealing with incredibly high rates of murder, rape and crime in general and it was understandable their reliance of firearms for their protection, it also led to more macho and a looser attitude towards arms by all, honest citizens or not; a vicious circle. And that is what I see in the attitudes in the USA.