Oh, I think he’s been specific enough, but when the insurance/industrial complex has free rein with 16 to 18 percent of our GNP, they’re not about to let it happen without a big fight … or a tea party.
Maybe you can enlighten us as to which specific elements of the proposed health care “?????” will cause an improvement of, and/or cost reduction of health care?
And please don’t tell us about ‘paperless medical records’ and such. This akin to Gore’s inventing the internet - it is being done, without the mandate of the almighty 0bama.
Tort reform and allowing interstate commerce in medical insurance products would actually reduce costs, but those seem to be absent from any Democrat bills.
If you are so pissed on the private insurance companies, why not let them go at each other, and compete for our business? That is where the ‘public’ option comes in … We have to bring the Post Office into the play.
BC only simple people name things a complex….its the people not the Insurance industry that are opposing Obamacare….get educated go to a tea party yourself rather than follow the obamedia
Detail? Yeah, bcs, he’s given us detail after detail about how people are suffering, dangit, don’t worry about any of that little stuff like, “How will we pay for it?” “Why can’t we just put caps on the insurance companies?” etc.
TBT if you haven’t…….your name is a paradox…you can’t tell truth without first finding it……..critical thinking requires information…..hug you ignorance its the source of your bliss……
oh wow, tort reform is really just going to solve everything. This is just a GOP attempt to get what they’ve wanted through the back door. And I’ve answered the bit about “allowing” insurance cos. to operate across state lines a dozen times. They can now, if they abide by state regulations. This is just an attempt to usurp each state’s rights to regulate insurance within its borders. So we have conservatives advocating against state rights in favor of the insurance industry lobby. That says a lot right there.
You seem to want to argue about some of the ideas that many think that would bring about an immediate lowering of costs and maybe improve the service.
Lets assume, for sake of the argument, that none of my ideas would work.
The original question - anybody:
“Maybe you can enlighten us as to which specific elements of the proposed health care “?????” will cause an improvement of, and/or cost reduction of health care?”
petergrt, done that innumerable times on other toons. Check out my Healthcare Reform collection, or do your own research. It’s boring to have to write the same thing over and over again.
ET: you’re trying to Gaslight me again. AND I AM NOT GETTING IT! Did three appear in the month of April 09?
ET: Actually, one does not place a comma between a month and a year unless it includes a date. Therefore April 2009 is correct, but April 4 2009 would be incorrect.
Funny, I thought this was the eighth time you corrected my spelling (or typos) in this the month of October, no?
ah….believeincommonsense….
I do love those creative names you assign to those money grubbing entities…”insurance/industrial complex” (….er….trying to get on the military/industrial complex monnaker coattails are we?)
I want to ask…civily…is there something in the Constitution….perhaps the Bill of Rights…that gives anyone, let alone citizens of this country….the inalienable right to insurance coverage? I asked that question not to be ‘cheeky’ but to elicit honest debate
(I was in the insurance industry, and trust me, there are many areas that need addressing….unfortunately, I don’t have the room to articulate ALL in this forum…)
johndh123, I start from the premise that all U.S. citizens (and immigrants who are here legally) have a right to basic healthcare. With our system, that means a right to purchase healthcare insurance. Many people are denied that right with the employer-based system we now have. Employees of small businesses, self-employed, part-time workers do not have an option for affordable healthcare insurance with the structure we now have. Others can’t purchase a policy at at cost because they have diabetes they are a cancer survivor and thousands of other reasons.
And I use the term “thousands” deliberately. Private health insurers testified before a congressional committee this year that ARE 2,000 conditions that cause them to reject policies and cause them to review existing policies to look for a reason to rescind retroactively.
Is there an inalienable right to insurance? No. But without it, people can’t get medical care until they spend everything they have, go into debt, and maybe they’ll qualify for a social program for healthcare. That makes no sense, and it is certainly not cost-effective to have a system that forces people into bankruptcy so then taxpayers can pay for aid to poor. In addition, medical providers charge those paying privately 3,4,5 times what they charge insurers, so those unlucky enough not to have insurance pay dearly for their misfortune. (I’ve given specific examples of this practice and won’t give details again.)
That’s what the insurance industry wants to happen. This is what they’re already doing — cherrypicking those without medical needs and shifting all others to the government to pay for. They want people who have not yet had a need for ongoing medical care to pay premiums and then when those people need medical care, they find a way to drop them or rescind their policy because they didn’t write down a visit to a dermatologist 20 years prior.
The medical industrial complex term I used came for a very good documentary called “Money Driven Medicine.” i recommend it to all. It looks at the brick and mortars costs of healthcare, and the competitive buying of costly and duplicative medical equipment so every hospital and free-standing facility can have the newest and the best. That’s apart from the 30 percent of each medical dollar insurers take for themselves.
I believe my country can figure out a way to provide universal healthcare and it will definitely take some regulations of the industries involved to achieve.
ET: Well you leave me flummoxed. Those nine mistakes in October blew me out of the water. I did notice your misspelling of handle and remain surprised by it, even considering, That’s three strikes and you’ve noticed before I’m usually a better hitter than that. Makes me wonder if I’m matching the answers to the wrong questions.
omQR, are you following with amused interest while sipping your coffee because you’ve already reached home plate?
“I start from the premise that all U.S. citizens (and immigrants who are here legally) have a right to basic healthcare. With our system, that means a right to purchase healthcare insurance. Many people are denied that right …”
is that as in ‘right of free speech’, or what?
” … denied that right . . .” = rubbish!!!
Most insurance companies sell medical insurance directly to individuals. That is the only way I have been insured for the past 25 years. Furthermore, there are a host of group-rate insurance possibilities, through allumny, clubs, credit cards and on and on.
When you start with such an intellectually and factually dishonest sytatement, it stopes me from continuing to read your post …
petergrt, do you live in a bubble? You’ve heard haven’t you that people with pre-existing conditions can’t get an individual policy? Insurers have free rein with individual policies can and do pick and choose who they want and what they’ll sell it for. Frequently it ends up meaning having to pay handsomely for a policy which only kicks in with a catastrophic illness. Get insurance through a credit card? Oh man, yeah, go for it.
You’re dishonest or misinformed about the current state of insurance availability and affordability for those who do not receive employer-sponsored health benefits.
fennec, I love editing and I keep the Associated Press Stylebook on my desk at all times. Love proofreading too.(don’t always do it here though obviously)
What I’m having trouble with is that other thing with ET … and still don’t know if omQR has figured it out.
We were missing each other’s Q&A then, as if one of us was playing baseball and the other softball. I asked once if the third first appeared in April of 09, so when you wrote about nine mistakes this month, I took that as the appearance date. I also read all about Handel the composer and tried to figure out a clue.
So it’s possible that one of my guesses IS correct. Should I start over?
No, it is not always available to individuals. What about pre-existing conditions and rescinding policies do you not get? And even when the insurers deign to sell a policy to some individuals it can be as high as $1,000 to $1,500 for a family AND have a high deductible, which is not affordable for many and basically catastrophic insurance for those that can afford it.
Geeze, do some research. Glad you got a policy you like, but it’s out of reach for many who do not have employer-sponsored health benefits.
“You’re dishonest or misinformed about the current state of insurance availability and affordability for those who do not receive employer-sponsored health benefits.”
I beg your pardon!
Your quip spoke of health insurance in general, which I hope you will acknowledge that is in fact available to individuals - outside of the realm of an employer.
The prices varies from state to state, and abvioesly based upon the actuarial tables …
Preexisting conditions are definitely a problem, which precisely why I have maintained my insurance continuity, regardless of employment. And here again, each state is different, but here in California, the state administers an exchange that allows private insurance companies write the high risk coverage at a reasonable - state controlled level, with state covering the excess risk. Incidentally, Blue Cross was just kicked out of the program because their rates were too high.
^ I’m curious, what’s the name of that exchange. I’m not aware of it. BTW, I paid $380 a month to continue my insurance through COBRA and when I asked about continuing it as an individual, they didn’t write individual policies in the state of CA because they didn’t like the regulations. I looked around for policies and got quotes like $600 a month, $5,000 deductible and no coverage for any pre-existing conditions for 12 months. Like i said, a catastrophic plan only. I went without insurance, very reluctantly, for a spell because i couldn’t afford to pay that kind of money for a health insurance policy that I would never be able to use for anything short of a catastrophe unrelated to anything I had ever had in my entire life. That’s not available, affordable insurance by anybody’s definition.
Try Kaiser Permanente. They have a couple of plans for individuals and you can choose the level of detectability, which can tailor your needs.
At a risk of sounding as a commercial for them, I have been with them for the better part of the past 25 years, after having sampled a host of standard, PPO and HMO’s, and I find their service second to none.
And I say this after having gotten an emergency surgery in Europe - the service was OK albeit really expansive (Kaiser reimbursed me thou), and then I had to have the same exact thing done in LA - there is no comparison.
The side effect is that I might be afraid of traveling outside of the US, for I might need medical care, and I know that I am not going to get it at the American level.
Since I returned from Europe I needed to have several medical procedures, so I had to see a bunch of doctors of various specialties.
I quizzed them all about the ongoing debate, and with the exception of one, who simply didn’t want to talk about it, all expressed unequivocal concerns and opposition to the proposed ‘overhaul’.
@Bcs & @ ET
(I’m familiar with baseball terms but not the actual game so here goes…)
I’m on third? :-o Wha…? I thought I was already in the dugout, resting on my laurels!
Which innings is it? Are the bases loaded? Is someone trying to steal a base and I’m sitting on third watching the birds and the crowd? Did the ball hit my noggin’?
peter, I thank you for the serious response. I’m OK now, I have Medicare and I purchase a medicare supplement.
I didn’t know about the MRMIP and I’ll read more about it just to be informed. Re kaiser, I know some people love it and others hate it. My sister has had it for years and swears by it. A long time ago in Sacramento, I had it for about one year and hated it.
Throughout my life, I’ve had very good employer-sponsored health benefits, not-so-very-good employer sponsored health benefits, health insurance guaranteed by COBRA, and I’ve had periods without insurance. The one thing I was never able to do was purchase an individual policy — it was either not possible or so out of reach of my ability to afford i couldn’t do it. Millions of people fall into this category, and paying privately, pay-as-you-go is MUCH more expensive. I’ve written about a blood test that the lab mistakenly billed my former insurer for, about $170, then billed me $398 for as a private pay. That’s screwy to me.
My family practice doc, whom I liked very much, was very supportive of healthcare reform. He told me before he joined a larger medical group, he was paying $1300 a month for his family of four and still had a high deductible.
ET: I think my 2nd guess was correct. My first guess was the astroid on the fritz. If you recall my saying what I thought the nine mistakes this month of October meant, and if you recall I asked if I really only made eight mistakes in October, that was my second guess.
(You may not have seen my initial inquiry into my second guess, only omQR responded to it, then I deleted it.)
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Oh, I think he’s been specific enough, but when the insurance/industrial complex has free rein with 16 to 18 percent of our GNP, they’re not about to let it happen without a big fight … or a tea party.
(typo corrected)
petergrt over 14 years ago
Maybe you can enlighten us as to which specific elements of the proposed health care “?????” will cause an improvement of, and/or cost reduction of health care?
And please don’t tell us about ‘paperless medical records’ and such. This akin to Gore’s inventing the internet - it is being done, without the mandate of the almighty 0bama.
Tort reform and allowing interstate commerce in medical insurance products would actually reduce costs, but those seem to be absent from any Democrat bills.
If you are so pissed on the private insurance companies, why not let them go at each other, and compete for our business? That is where the ‘public’ option comes in … We have to bring the Post Office into the play.
Simon_Jester over 14 years ago
Name one state that passed Tort reform where Health Insurance costs went down
Magnaut over 14 years ago
BC only simple people name things a complex….its the people not the Insurance industry that are opposing Obamacare….get educated go to a tea party yourself rather than follow the obamedia
NorthCarolinian over 14 years ago
Detail? Yeah, bcs, he’s given us detail after detail about how people are suffering, dangit, don’t worry about any of that little stuff like, “How will we pay for it?” “Why can’t we just put caps on the insurance companies?” etc.
TruthBTold over 14 years ago
Join a tea bagger group?? Why waste your time hanging around with a bunch of ill-informed loons?
Nothing more sad than a bunch of malcontents that work so hard against their own self-interests and instead being a tool for corporate interests.
Critical thinking skills people!
petergrt over 14 years ago
“Why waste your time hanging around with a bunch of ill-informed loons?”
So answer the above stated questions!!!
Magnaut over 14 years ago
TBT if you haven’t…….your name is a paradox…you can’t tell truth without first finding it……..critical thinking requires information…..hug you ignorance its the source of your bliss……
jmworacle over 14 years ago
All we have to do is to present our health issue to “The Benevolent One” and he shall heal us!
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
ET: thanks for correction, I corrected it. answer to question: no, I didn’t.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
oh wow, tort reform is really just going to solve everything. This is just a GOP attempt to get what they’ve wanted through the back door. And I’ve answered the bit about “allowing” insurance cos. to operate across state lines a dozen times. They can now, if they abide by state regulations. This is just an attempt to usurp each state’s rights to regulate insurance within its borders. So we have conservatives advocating against state rights in favor of the insurance industry lobby. That says a lot right there.
petergrt over 14 years ago
believecommonsense:
You seem to want to argue about some of the ideas that many think that would bring about an immediate lowering of costs and maybe improve the service.
Lets assume, for sake of the argument, that none of my ideas would work.
The original question - anybody:
“Maybe you can enlighten us as to which specific elements of the proposed health care “?????” will cause an improvement of, and/or cost reduction of health care?”
deadheadzan over 14 years ago
M. Kitt, thanks for all the great links.
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
Pay for your own health care and the prices will come down quick.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
petergrt, done that innumerable times on other toons. Check out my Healthcare Reform collection, or do your own research. It’s boring to have to write the same thing over and over again.
ET: you’re trying to Gaslight me again. AND I AM NOT GETTING IT! Did three appear in the month of April 09?
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
ET: Actually, one does not place a comma between a month and a year unless it includes a date. Therefore April 2009 is correct, but April 4 2009 would be incorrect.
Funny, I thought this was the eighth time you corrected my spelling (or typos) in this the month of October, no?
johndh123 over 14 years ago
ah….believeincommonsense…. I do love those creative names you assign to those money grubbing entities…”insurance/industrial complex” (….er….trying to get on the military/industrial complex monnaker coattails are we?) I want to ask…civily…is there something in the Constitution….perhaps the Bill of Rights…that gives anyone, let alone citizens of this country….the inalienable right to insurance coverage? I asked that question not to be ‘cheeky’ but to elicit honest debate (I was in the insurance industry, and trust me, there are many areas that need addressing….unfortunately, I don’t have the room to articulate ALL in this forum…)
OmqR-IV.0 over 14 years ago
Is drinking coffee and following everything with amused interest.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
johndh123, I start from the premise that all U.S. citizens (and immigrants who are here legally) have a right to basic healthcare. With our system, that means a right to purchase healthcare insurance. Many people are denied that right with the employer-based system we now have. Employees of small businesses, self-employed, part-time workers do not have an option for affordable healthcare insurance with the structure we now have. Others can’t purchase a policy at at cost because they have diabetes they are a cancer survivor and thousands of other reasons.
And I use the term “thousands” deliberately. Private health insurers testified before a congressional committee this year that ARE 2,000 conditions that cause them to reject policies and cause them to review existing policies to look for a reason to rescind retroactively.
Is there an inalienable right to insurance? No. But without it, people can’t get medical care until they spend everything they have, go into debt, and maybe they’ll qualify for a social program for healthcare. That makes no sense, and it is certainly not cost-effective to have a system that forces people into bankruptcy so then taxpayers can pay for aid to poor. In addition, medical providers charge those paying privately 3,4,5 times what they charge insurers, so those unlucky enough not to have insurance pay dearly for their misfortune. (I’ve given specific examples of this practice and won’t give details again.)
That’s what the insurance industry wants to happen. This is what they’re already doing — cherrypicking those without medical needs and shifting all others to the government to pay for. They want people who have not yet had a need for ongoing medical care to pay premiums and then when those people need medical care, they find a way to drop them or rescind their policy because they didn’t write down a visit to a dermatologist 20 years prior.
The medical industrial complex term I used came for a very good documentary called “Money Driven Medicine.” i recommend it to all. It looks at the brick and mortars costs of healthcare, and the competitive buying of costly and duplicative medical equipment so every hospital and free-standing facility can have the newest and the best. That’s apart from the 30 percent of each medical dollar insurers take for themselves.
I believe my country can figure out a way to provide universal healthcare and it will definitely take some regulations of the industries involved to achieve.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
ET: Well you leave me flummoxed. Those nine mistakes in October blew me out of the water. I did notice your misspelling of handle and remain surprised by it, even considering, That’s three strikes and you’ve noticed before I’m usually a better hitter than that. Makes me wonder if I’m matching the answers to the wrong questions.
omQR, are you following with amused interest while sipping your coffee because you’ve already reached home plate?
petergrt over 14 years ago
“I start from the premise that all U.S. citizens (and immigrants who are here legally) have a right to basic healthcare. With our system, that means a right to purchase healthcare insurance. Many people are denied that right …”
is that as in ‘right of free speech’, or what? ” … denied that right . . .” = rubbish!!!Most insurance companies sell medical insurance directly to individuals. That is the only way I have been insured for the past 25 years. Furthermore, there are a host of group-rate insurance possibilities, through allumny, clubs, credit cards and on and on.
When you start with such an intellectually and factually dishonest sytatement, it stopes me from continuing to read your post …
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
petergrt, do you live in a bubble? You’ve heard haven’t you that people with pre-existing conditions can’t get an individual policy? Insurers have free rein with individual policies can and do pick and choose who they want and what they’ll sell it for. Frequently it ends up meaning having to pay handsomely for a policy which only kicks in with a catastrophic illness. Get insurance through a credit card? Oh man, yeah, go for it.
You’re dishonest or misinformed about the current state of insurance availability and affordability for those who do not receive employer-sponsored health benefits.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
fennec, I love editing and I keep the Associated Press Stylebook on my desk at all times. Love proofreading too.(don’t always do it here though obviously) What I’m having trouble with is that other thing with ET … and still don’t know if omQR has figured it out.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
We were missing each other’s Q&A then, as if one of us was playing baseball and the other softball. I asked once if the third first appeared in April of 09, so when you wrote about nine mistakes this month, I took that as the appearance date. I also read all about Handel the composer and tried to figure out a clue.
So it’s possible that one of my guesses IS correct. Should I start over?
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
No, it is not always available to individuals. What about pre-existing conditions and rescinding policies do you not get? And even when the insurers deign to sell a policy to some individuals it can be as high as $1,000 to $1,500 for a family AND have a high deductible, which is not affordable for many and basically catastrophic insurance for those that can afford it.
Geeze, do some research. Glad you got a policy you like, but it’s out of reach for many who do not have employer-sponsored health benefits.
petergrt over 14 years ago
“You’re dishonest or misinformed about the current state of insurance availability and affordability for those who do not receive employer-sponsored health benefits.”
I beg your pardon!
Your quip spoke of health insurance in general, which I hope you will acknowledge that is in fact available to individuals - outside of the realm of an employer.
The prices varies from state to state, and abvioesly based upon the actuarial tables …
Preexisting conditions are definitely a problem, which precisely why I have maintained my insurance continuity, regardless of employment. And here again, each state is different, but here in California, the state administers an exchange that allows private insurance companies write the high risk coverage at a reasonable - state controlled level, with state covering the excess risk. Incidentally, Blue Cross was just kicked out of the program because their rates were too high.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
^ I’m curious, what’s the name of that exchange. I’m not aware of it. BTW, I paid $380 a month to continue my insurance through COBRA and when I asked about continuing it as an individual, they didn’t write individual policies in the state of CA because they didn’t like the regulations. I looked around for policies and got quotes like $600 a month, $5,000 deductible and no coverage for any pre-existing conditions for 12 months. Like i said, a catastrophic plan only. I went without insurance, very reluctantly, for a spell because i couldn’t afford to pay that kind of money for a health insurance policy that I would never be able to use for anything short of a catastrophe unrelated to anything I had ever had in my entire life. That’s not available, affordable insurance by anybody’s definition.
petergrt over 14 years ago
The California high risk pool or MRMIP has a capacity for 7100 people, and currently has approximately 6800 enrollees.
petergrt over 14 years ago
Try Kaiser Permanente. They have a couple of plans for individuals and you can choose the level of detectability, which can tailor your needs.
At a risk of sounding as a commercial for them, I have been with them for the better part of the past 25 years, after having sampled a host of standard, PPO and HMO’s, and I find their service second to none.
And I say this after having gotten an emergency surgery in Europe - the service was OK albeit really expansive (Kaiser reimbursed me thou), and then I had to have the same exact thing done in LA - there is no comparison.
The side effect is that I might be afraid of traveling outside of the US, for I might need medical care, and I know that I am not going to get it at the American level.
petergrt over 14 years ago
Since I returned from Europe I needed to have several medical procedures, so I had to see a bunch of doctors of various specialties.
I quizzed them all about the ongoing debate, and with the exception of one, who simply didn’t want to talk about it, all expressed unequivocal concerns and opposition to the proposed ‘overhaul’.
OmqR-IV.0 over 14 years ago
@Bcs & @ ET (I’m familiar with baseball terms but not the actual game so here goes…) I’m on third? :-o Wha…? I thought I was already in the dugout, resting on my laurels! Which innings is it? Are the bases loaded? Is someone trying to steal a base and I’m sitting on third watching the birds and the crowd? Did the ball hit my noggin’?
I think my coffee wasn’t freshly grounded :-/
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
peter, I thank you for the serious response. I’m OK now, I have Medicare and I purchase a medicare supplement.
I didn’t know about the MRMIP and I’ll read more about it just to be informed. Re kaiser, I know some people love it and others hate it. My sister has had it for years and swears by it. A long time ago in Sacramento, I had it for about one year and hated it.
Throughout my life, I’ve had very good employer-sponsored health benefits, not-so-very-good employer sponsored health benefits, health insurance guaranteed by COBRA, and I’ve had periods without insurance. The one thing I was never able to do was purchase an individual policy — it was either not possible or so out of reach of my ability to afford i couldn’t do it. Millions of people fall into this category, and paying privately, pay-as-you-go is MUCH more expensive. I’ve written about a blood test that the lab mistakenly billed my former insurer for, about $170, then billed me $398 for as a private pay. That’s screwy to me.
My family practice doc, whom I liked very much, was very supportive of healthcare reform. He told me before he joined a larger medical group, he was paying $1300 a month for his family of four and still had a high deductible.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
ET: I shall practice my Hansel & Gretel skills at following bread crumbs. (sigh)
OmqR-IV.0 over 14 years ago
^ Avoid charming lil’ ol’ ladies & sweet houses.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Did the third persona (the one I don’t know) appear before or after the first persona I knew?
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
ET: I think my 2nd guess was correct. My first guess was the astroid on the fritz. If you recall my saying what I thought the nine mistakes this month of October meant, and if you recall I asked if I really only made eight mistakes in October, that was my second guess.
(You may not have seen my initial inquiry into my second guess, only omQR responded to it, then I deleted it.)
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
you can’t hear me, but I’m pounding on my gorilla chest and making lots of whooping noises …