Torture doesn’t work? That’s strange, I thought that way back in history there were people who were burned at the stake after admitting they were witches under the duress of torture.
I guess I’ll wait to see the official report stating that no life saving information was gained through these tactics before I join the Dem’s current witch hunt.
Torture does the opposite of working - it creates misinformation, because people will say anything to make the pain stop. Interrogators from Israel and Ireland, who’ve successfully fought terrorism, say they get better information without it.
Torture is wrong. It’s harder on the innocent than it is on the guilty. A guilty person can say “Ouch, okay, I did it”. An innocent person has to endure the torture until his torturers decide to believe them.
Torture destroys our moral leadership in the world. The minute we stop acting like the good guys, we stop being the good guys. It’s like Bush & Cheney decided to be P.R. people for Osama Bin Laden by living up to his worst smears about America.
Conservatives like to argue “We’re fighting evil, we can’t afford to be namby-pamby about it”. Given how bad terrorists are, we should never have wasted time on things that don’t work. They also like to argue, “well, what if there were a ticking time-bomb, AND millions were going to die AND we had the guy in custody AND we could get the information from him with torture, THEN would you support it?” If you have to go to such an outlandish never-happens-in-real-life scenario, then you’re admitting it’s wrong.
But it is fun watching the “some things are just plain wrong” crowd argue that torture is really okay.
Howie, I’m very clear about the difference between facts and opinions or beliefs. There’s a famous saying that every man is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
If McCain says waterboarding is torture, and he does, then I believe him. He’s been there, and unlike Cheney and Yoo and others in high level positions in the Bush administration, he’s served his country in the military, he went to war. He has credibility and moral authority.
personally, I think this is silly and a monumental waste of time to still be discussing.
nomad2112 over 14 years ago
Torture doesn’t work? That’s strange, I thought that way back in history there were people who were burned at the stake after admitting they were witches under the duress of torture.
I guess I’ll wait to see the official report stating that no life saving information was gained through these tactics before I join the Dem’s current witch hunt.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
amazing that the rabid wingnuts won’t listen to John McCain who has earned the right to speak with knowledge and moral authority on this subject
HUMPHRIES over 14 years ago
Thought I posted it, but most witch burning during the middle ages was motivated by property or political gain .
Copperdomebodhi over 14 years ago
Torture does the opposite of working - it creates misinformation, because people will say anything to make the pain stop. Interrogators from Israel and Ireland, who’ve successfully fought terrorism, say they get better information without it.
Torture is wrong. It’s harder on the innocent than it is on the guilty. A guilty person can say “Ouch, okay, I did it”. An innocent person has to endure the torture until his torturers decide to believe them.
Torture destroys our moral leadership in the world. The minute we stop acting like the good guys, we stop being the good guys. It’s like Bush & Cheney decided to be P.R. people for Osama Bin Laden by living up to his worst smears about America.
Conservatives like to argue “We’re fighting evil, we can’t afford to be namby-pamby about it”. Given how bad terrorists are, we should never have wasted time on things that don’t work. They also like to argue, “well, what if there were a ticking time-bomb, AND millions were going to die AND we had the guy in custody AND we could get the information from him with torture, THEN would you support it?” If you have to go to such an outlandish never-happens-in-real-life scenario, then you’re admitting it’s wrong.
But it is fun watching the “some things are just plain wrong” crowd argue that torture is really okay.
cdward over 14 years ago
Torture has one other predictable result: it corrupts and ultimately destroys the soul of the torturer.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Howie, talk to McCain
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Howie, and believing what he says about torture is wrong why ?
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Howie, I’m very clear about the difference between facts and opinions or beliefs. There’s a famous saying that every man is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
If McCain says waterboarding is torture, and he does, then I believe him. He’s been there, and unlike Cheney and Yoo and others in high level positions in the Bush administration, he’s served his country in the military, he went to war. He has credibility and moral authority.
personally, I think this is silly and a monumental waste of time to still be discussing.