Clay Jones for July 21, 2009

But he didn’t say this until after he said they would get better and they didn’t. Spend $787B and unemployment will remain below 8.5%. It didn’t. My health care plan will decrease expenditures. GAO, no it won’t. Next we have a national malaise.

yes, some in the country must be going through withdrawal pains after eight years of falsehoods, lies and misdirection

sometimes, senor, you crack me up!

BCS: So when Bush lies you are aghast but when Obama does it, don’t worry. But he promised us a new way of governing. New - new lies.

What has Obama lied about?

My disappointment with Obama is when he has allowed some previous policies on executive branch secrecy to continue. However, I’ve reconsidered my displeasure at his decision not to release photos of detainee abuse on the battlefields (different from abuse at Abu Ghraib) because if the release could cause harm to our troops, he’s correct not to release.

I’m disappointed in some ways that his actions have not been bolder, but the difficulty in dealing with Congress on healthcare reform shows how hard it is to work with Congress when some are intent are dissembling for partisan purposes.

and BTW, Bush and Cheney’s lies sent our country to war on false premises. A war that was badly planned from day one, that was incompetently executed, often ignoring information from ground commanders that disagreed with Cheny, Rumsfeld, Feith, et al, and a war that Bush kept off the balance books so he could continue with his plan to reduce taxes on the wealthy and influential.

To say I am aghast at likes perpetuated by the Bush administration is an understatement.

BTW, my question to you about what Obama has lied about is serious.

DocCanookie: i addressed that in my post. If publication of these new abuse photos on the battlefield were to endanger troops on the ground, it would be irresponsible to release them at this time.

Howie, Bush et al did lie repeatedly. It’s well documented and well-sourced and his own military commanders were telling him the truth, but, as I said, Cheney/Rumsfeld/Feith et al thought they all new better.

Remember Mission Accomplished; remember major combat operations are over; remember claims there was no insurgency, just a few thugs left; remember no one could have anticipated planes going into the WTC (even though the CIA warned them in August); remember no one could have anticipated looting in Iraq, even though ground commanders begged for more troops well in advance because looting occurred in the first Iraq war; remember no one could have anticipated the levees would breach, even though they had been specifically told it was a real possibility three days in advance of the storm hitting shore?

Remember all the statements by Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush in the early days of the war about what they had “found” in Iraq, all of which ultimately proved to be false.

I can give you a list of books to read, Howie, to remind you if you’ve forgotten all that.

and you come back with Biden’s dumb statement about they didn’t realize how bad it really was? (and it was gaffe-prone Biden, not Obama and not other top advisors.)

reversed position, yes and it is not the same as lying, IMHO. Obama has reversed position on some issues involving national security involved with this war … it makes me think he must have learned things when he became President that has made him choose a more cautious course

Here ya go BCS …

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081208/pl_politico/16292

Obama is no different than any other Chicago politician before him.

The change he promised America was bunk from the start.

I think it is that he things we’re stupid. He and his buddies…they figure if they say lots of pretty words and shift things around here and there and sell them as something totally different that we’d by this bill of goods.

To his dismay, a majority of Americans are not this stupid.

“I think it is that he things we’re stupid. He and his buddies…they figure if they say lots of pretty words and shift things around here and there and sell them as something totally different that we’d by this bill of goods.”

Nothing his predecessor(s) had not done, really.

@ Parker - so tell me, would it be fine with you if the US ran secret prisons, tortured, and broke every law about it (including some of its own) as long as we did not know about it? Is that the kind of country that should be, if not the leader then at least the most powerful country of the so-called free world?

I’m not a fanatic of everything US, but I have a high enough opinion of America and its people to not want them to go through that.

reversed position, yes and it is not the same as lying, IMHO. Obama has reversed position on some issues involving national security involved with this war … it makes me think he must have learned things when he became President that has made him choose a more cautious course Flag

Well, Well, bravo! You actually know how to think,!

@ Parker - the question was rhetorical, of course. However, I think that it was important that if someone in the military did something illegal under the relevant law, they are investigated and the issue is brought to light. Just like government, it is a powerful entity that, if left unchecked, can harm the people it is created to serve. The US has been lucky enough, historically, not to have experienced that - but plenty of countries have not. This is why I am generally opposed to the US classifying the evidence of the abuse.

Also, such a shameful issue - and I do believe it was shameful - can not be cleared up if it is being denied. Remember how Bush and his men (and women) went on about how the US does not torture? Yes, there will be outrage (some of it, perhaps, deserved?) and hostility, but that is a necessary part in dealing with an issue that would otherwise be left to fester and poison the US’ image and relationships.

As for actual military information, the kind that you referred to in your fourth paragraph, of course certain things should be classified. However, abuse should be known and prosecuted - whether in the government, army, police authorities, or the private sector.

BCS—EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG!

AND WHEN YOU ARE AT A LOSS FOR ANYTHING SENSIBLE TO SAY, NAMECALLING IS AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE FOR A 6TH GRADER.

ParkerintheHouse, How kind of you to care that the nation isn’t healed enough to look at torture photos of our enemies. I’m glad we don’t have torture photos of the men that Al Qaida kidnapped and killed, too. After, all some of us are mothers of military men, me included. The families of those dead men and women, will thank you democrats for not allowing their loved ones to be viewed like butchers’ meat, after standing in the gap between you and those who would visit violence on you and others here. The nation as a whole is your first concern, what about the families of the dead? What about the dead themselves? Do you owe them anything? Like: Gratitude?

@lightartsteacher - I do not know of Al-Queda in particular, but many of the kidnapper groups were not exactly shy to show their victims’ executions. They actually broadcast videos with it.

@Parker - the thing is, everyone knows torture happened. If the US wants to clear its reputation and reaffirm its previous standing, imo it has to show that this was in the past and will no longer happen. This can only happen, however, if the US government is open and honest about the entire thing.

If Germany could resume its place among the western countries after WWII and what its army and police did then, the US has little to worry about - as long as it shows that Abu Ghraib and the rest were aberrations rather than examples of what America stands for.

Not all Presidents lie; some just hide the truth.

lightartsteacher, I’m puzzled. I do not see where bcs has resorted to name calling. I do think a post (or 2 of them) with all caps saying everything you say is wrong is uncivil discourse.