Perfect illustration of the single-minded stupidity of folks who don’t know where milk or electricity comes from, buying into whatever “industry” sells them. “Clean coal” is not. Oil is being drilled for at record levels and production is UP, but so are prices. Nuke does present dangers, not illustrated by the current “dilemma”. But folks will just keep on consuming, and cursing conservation because it doesn’t fit/suit their “lifestyle”.
Radish, “pumped storage” is also one of the biggest scams out there. I’ve reviewed two locally that FERC gave licenses to, despite the fact the ephemeral lakes didn’t usually have water, and NEVER had the volume of water the applicant claimed they would move daily. (ps, for ET- it’s reservoir.)
Trout, what powers your PC? Do you have nut fed squirrels running in a cage? You are a hypocrite, just like Al Gore and BHO.
I don’t apologize for my use and I don’t expect anyone else to.
Your a super hypocrite if you think peddling your bike a mile a day instead of firing up the Hummer is really going to make a difference compared to all the jets flying every day all over the world, then I understand why you don’t understand the difference between the Bush deficit and the BHO deficit.
^^ I know the feeling. I mean, if I and one hundred other people decided that, “well, since there’s a huge logging corporation burning 10000 acres of land, if we each unnecessarily burn only 1 acre of land, it doesn’t really matter.” Y’know, like … if I lob a grenade into that village which is being struck by missiles, it doesn’t matter because the missiles do more damage.
I don’t find it necessary to chastise people over every little action that may not be the most “green” thing to do, but honestly, biking a mile a day over using the hummer is also better for your body 99% of the time, if it’s within reason (obviously peddling one’s bike to the grocery store on grocery day isn’t feasible). Perhaps that wasn’t the best choice.
“then I understand why you don’t understand the difference between the Bush deficit and the BHO deficit.”
Is this the “difference” that doesn’t account for the 2 wars or no? I thought we all agreed that deficits don’t matter. Cheney said so, anyway.
Wind and solar power generators make expensive power, complemented or not by water turbines. Incidentally, why little generators if they’re the wave of the future?
And, if Bush’s two wars have been bad (and they have been), why isn’t the Hope and Change phony taking our troops out of harm’s way?
A number of alternatives ARE available, with restraint. Wind is as cheap as coal in some areas now. Hydro power needs to be modified from “old style” for less damage and improved efficiency. Nuclear is hazardous, but necessary. Fossil fuels ARE finite. Solar has problems but is best used locally instead of massive “farms”. Yes, there ARE answers, but the MAIN RESPONSE needs to be Conservation and better use of the power we generate, as MOST of it is actually WASTED by current use methods.
“I assume, you drive a car and use energy.
Then don’t preach.”
I wasn’t aware that I was preaching, especially when I said:
“_ I don’t find it necessary to chastise people over every little action that may not be the most “green” thing to do_”
I kind of thought that was pretty much stating that I ‘don’t preach,’ but it wouldn’t be the first time I haven’t across clearly.
“Yeah, biking is good for the body, BUT when I need some fast groceries and the store is 5 miles away, guess what, I will opt for the car!
Jade: You will as well, admit it!”
“but honestly, biking a mile a day over using the hummer is also better for your body 99% of the time, if it’s within reason (obviously peddling one’s bike to the grocery store on grocery day isn’t feasible)”
I … thought I did… .
What I was criticizing was your example. As a runner, yes, if I can walk somewhere within reasonable walking distance I am going to do so or bike there, because I like the thought of getting exercise. I don’t “leisure” drive, but I do drive, and I’m not going to pretend like I don’t.
wow… I think i mostly agreed with dtroutma’s last post.
huh.
I still don’t like wind in the fact that it produces very little energy, especially compared to coal (your comparison), and is ugly, loud and kills way too many birds. but I understand it and I think it even has a place, however limited.
And yes, fossil fuels are somewhat finite, but the current resources are at least ample enough for us to have plenty of time to find reasonable alternatives.
And while we are seeking alternatives we should also be trying to better clean our current methods and get more out of them at less cost.
Example: Do you know how Rockefeller made his millions? Though our modern history books twist him into some evil greedy beast, his credit should be massive. He figured out how to use the massive amounts oil and such wasted during the refining process. I think they used less than 50% of original product. Rockefeller figured out how to use nearly 100%. That’s what got us all the different uses and severely cut the cost of oil in general. It also made him millions for his ingenuity. (feel free to correct some of the details… my memory isn’t what it used to be.)
The idea that we must choose between old dirty technologies and expensive new ones is, at its core, a very negative view of American ingenuity. It’s a scared child view: don’t make me do my homework, I might fail. Why not challenge ourselves to meeting the highest possible environmental standards AND keep it inexpensive. We could do it.
Here are people who are doing it, and leaving us behind in the dirty dust…
Dtroutma over 13 years ago
Perfect illustration of the single-minded stupidity of folks who don’t know where milk or electricity comes from, buying into whatever “industry” sells them. “Clean coal” is not. Oil is being drilled for at record levels and production is UP, but so are prices. Nuke does present dangers, not illustrated by the current “dilemma”. But folks will just keep on consuming, and cursing conservation because it doesn’t fit/suit their “lifestyle”.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“Scared of a little manual labour?”
I am. That stuff’s hard work!Dtroutma over 13 years ago
Radish, “pumped storage” is also one of the biggest scams out there. I’ve reviewed two locally that FERC gave licenses to, despite the fact the ephemeral lakes didn’t usually have water, and NEVER had the volume of water the applicant claimed they would move daily. (ps, for ET- it’s reservoir.)
josefw over 13 years ago
Trout, what powers your PC? Do you have nut fed squirrels running in a cage? You are a hypocrite, just like Al Gore and BHO.
I don’t apologize for my use and I don’t expect anyone else to. Your a super hypocrite if you think peddling your bike a mile a day instead of firing up the Hummer is really going to make a difference compared to all the jets flying every day all over the world, then I understand why you don’t understand the difference between the Bush deficit and the BHO deficit.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
^^ I know the feeling. I mean, if I and one hundred other people decided that, “well, since there’s a huge logging corporation burning 10000 acres of land, if we each unnecessarily burn only 1 acre of land, it doesn’t really matter.” Y’know, like … if I lob a grenade into that village which is being struck by missiles, it doesn’t matter because the missiles do more damage.
I don’t find it necessary to chastise people over every little action that may not be the most “green” thing to do, but honestly, biking a mile a day over using the hummer is also better for your body 99% of the time, if it’s within reason (obviously peddling one’s bike to the grocery store on grocery day isn’t feasible). Perhaps that wasn’t the best choice.
“then I understand why you don’t understand the difference between the Bush deficit and the BHO deficit.”
Is this the “difference” that doesn’t account for the 2 wars or no? I thought we all agreed that deficits don’t matter. Cheney said so, anyway.josefw over 13 years ago
Jade, somewhere you lost my message…
Your examples are not proportionate to reality, or what I am referring to.
I assume, you drive a car and use energy.
Then don’t preach.
I did not say that I don’t ration, I merely stated I use what I use and adopt the “DODT” phylosophy about energy .
You should like that.
Yeah, biking is good for the body, BUT when I need some fast groceries and the store is 5 miles away, guess what, I will opt for the car!
Jade: You will as well, admit it!
BTW: I was excited when you agreed with me the other day! ;)
“I had a warm, tingly feeling running up and down my leg!”
agent.007 over 13 years ago
Wind and solar power generators make expensive power, complemented or not by water turbines. Incidentally, why little generators if they’re the wave of the future?
And, if Bush’s two wars have been bad (and they have been), why isn’t the Hope and Change phony taking our troops out of harm’s way?
Dtroutma over 13 years ago
A number of alternatives ARE available, with restraint. Wind is as cheap as coal in some areas now. Hydro power needs to be modified from “old style” for less damage and improved efficiency. Nuclear is hazardous, but necessary. Fossil fuels ARE finite. Solar has problems but is best used locally instead of massive “farms”. Yes, there ARE answers, but the MAIN RESPONSE needs to be Conservation and better use of the power we generate, as MOST of it is actually WASTED by current use methods.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“I assume, you drive a car and use energy. Then don’t preach.”
I wasn’t aware that I was preaching, especially when I said: “_ I don’t find it necessary to chastise people over every little action that may not be the most “green” thing to do_” I kind of thought that was pretty much stating that I ‘don’t preach,’ but it wouldn’t be the first time I haven’t across clearly.“Yeah, biking is good for the body, BUT when I need some fast groceries and the store is 5 miles away, guess what, I will opt for the car! Jade: You will as well, admit it!”
“but honestly, biking a mile a day over using the hummer is also better for your body 99% of the time, if it’s within reason (obviously peddling one’s bike to the grocery store on grocery day isn’t feasible)” I … thought I did… .What I was criticizing was your example. As a runner, yes, if I can walk somewhere within reasonable walking distance I am going to do so or bike there, because I like the thought of getting exercise. I don’t “leisure” drive, but I do drive, and I’m not going to pretend like I don’t.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“BTW: I was excited when you agreed with me the other day”
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. One day we’ll find out which of us is broken. ;)DjGuardian over 13 years ago
wow… I think i mostly agreed with dtroutma’s last post.
huh.
I still don’t like wind in the fact that it produces very little energy, especially compared to coal (your comparison), and is ugly, loud and kills way too many birds. but I understand it and I think it even has a place, however limited.
And yes, fossil fuels are somewhat finite, but the current resources are at least ample enough for us to have plenty of time to find reasonable alternatives.
DjGuardian over 13 years ago
And while we are seeking alternatives we should also be trying to better clean our current methods and get more out of them at less cost.
Example: Do you know how Rockefeller made his millions? Though our modern history books twist him into some evil greedy beast, his credit should be massive. He figured out how to use the massive amounts oil and such wasted during the refining process. I think they used less than 50% of original product. Rockefeller figured out how to use nearly 100%. That’s what got us all the different uses and severely cut the cost of oil in general. It also made him millions for his ingenuity. (feel free to correct some of the details… my memory isn’t what it used to be.)
pirate227 about 13 years ago
How about natural gas?
vhammon about 13 years ago
The idea that we must choose between old dirty technologies and expensive new ones is, at its core, a very negative view of American ingenuity. It’s a scared child view: don’t make me do my homework, I might fail. Why not challenge ourselves to meeting the highest possible environmental standards AND keep it inexpensive. We could do it.
Here are people who are doing it, and leaving us behind in the dirty dust…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/science/earth/11fossil.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss