Turkey’s PM during a visit to Lebanon, which the UN has done nothing to hinder Iran in annexing Lebanon to the Islamic World Jihad association, warned Israel against any defensive response to the terrorists who often fire missiles into Israel…..
Islamic terrorists are suspects in the assassination of the Lebanese PM, Rafik Hariri……Hizbullah is the likely Iranian puppet gang that did the murder, and the Turkish PM wants to delay the investigation findings…..CYA…Muslim-style….
Turkey is rapidly becoming captive to the growing Octopus, Iran’s Syria-Lebanon-Turkey? alliance, all dedicated to the elimination of Jewish Israel.
the Muslim Crescent is not a symbol of “peace” IMO…except the Islamic version = all enemies dead means peace for Muslims!
I support US defending our sister “democracy”…Israel…against all threats…national or terror organizations….and I support Israel defending its own survival.
I think that the Turkish cressent was turned by Bliebel into a peace sympol that surrounds Lebanon and protects it from civil war.
DT^
Israel can’t be a democracy because the Palestinians which are the majority of its population don’t have any rights ,like the right to vote in the kenesset or to be equal with the jews at the same time they are denied from getting their own state.
Tell me how can a risedent of the capital city be denied of the right to elect in a country because he belongs to a certain ethnic group???
I don’t think Islam per se wants to kill everyone Bin Laden calls “infidels”. Empires based on nothing but war usually attack the wrong guy and don’t last long (Napoleon, Hitler). If if was all about war, Islam wouldn’t have survived so far.
1- Jews lived their golden ages in Islamic and Arabic countries, the nations that drove them to the sea were all Christian , like Spain ,500 years ago ,orGermany with 6000000 victims,or Russia in the 19th century..etc..
2- Palestinians who live under the Israeli rule in East Jerusalem (about quarter of a million)are denied the right to vote for the kenesset.\
3-Iraq is a democracy now (thanks to the Amirecan effort!).
4 Can you call a country a democracy when you have laws for the jews and laws for the Palestinian?roads for the Jews and Roads for the Palestinians? earias for the Jews and areas for the Palestinians?Do you know that a palestinian from Jerusalem who goes out of the city for more than 5 years loses his right to to it?Do you know that He can’t marryfrom outside because his family will be considered strangers?and I have more Iif you have the time…
TCL: ”as someone who lives in an apartheid government”
Tell you what tcl, I’ll post as someone who lived in The Apartheid country.
I’ve heard similar arguments raised in my time. ”You blacks never had it so good here! Look at the other African countries! Show me a black democracy and we will talk. You even have your own homelands and parliaments.”
Usually spoken by a person sitting on what was the most arable land in the country, pointing at the 13%
left over for “homelands” for 80% of the population. Usually someone holding all the cards backed by a powerful police state.
We were all taught we were a democracy.
You are correct though, Israel is a democracy. But is it one in name only? What are the facts on the ground? The Israeli Arabs represent a mere 20% of the population. They do have representation in the Knesset. The one interesting benefit of being Arab within Israel is that they are not conscripted. An interesting parallel to The Apartheid government where only whites were conscripted. I wonder why. By the way, Israeli Arabs themselves are not just one culture; they are various communities with different identities and religions. Not all are Muslim for instance. Many of the rights the Israeli Arabs have now had to be hard fought for. Even now these are being tested by those who resent the fact Israeli Arabs have equality, in the eyes of the law at least.
But that is not really what happens in everyday life. There is de facto apartheid in day to day life in Israel. Despite having quotas, despite requiring equal status to its language and culture and access to all services, the Israeli Arabs are sadly and badly under represented.
I suspect Palestino’s post probably reflects an ironic tone.
The West bank & Gaza have their representatives, their government. But it is completely hemmed in and in effect controlled by Israel. There is no independence. There is no equality with Israelis. The rights of Palestinians within the occupied West bank are trampled on daily. Walls are erected criss-crossing Arab villages, denying access to their agriculture, roads are built exclusively used by settlers and denying many native Arabs access to amenities, and new homes are built on Arab lands.
Now do we understand Palestino’s post?
I do think Palestino is on record here stating he doesn’t wish Israel’s destruction nor has he ever stated he wishes the Jews be driven into the sea, so to liken him to those who do have those views, is rather poor show.
He most certainly is bitter about Israel and has criticised it severely but to be honest, he isn’t going to be impartial, now is he?
It is not up to Palestino to provide examples of other Arab democracies. He is only concerned with what happens to his homeland. He is not a spokeperson for those countries so why do people often insist that Palestinians answer for other Arab states? They have screwed the Palestinians as much as everyone else.
I agree with most of your comment, but I still insist that Israel by defining itself as a “Jewish state ” ,conradicts fundamentally with being a democracy.
after all,isn’t a dimocratic state a state for all its citizens?
Palestino; you have a good point in your first post. I wouldn’t say the Jews’s golden age was under muslim rule (that’s more under Solomon, if you ask me), but many far-right historians point out that christians and jews were “dhimmis” under muslim rule.
the Jews established a nation in God’s Promised Land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’s descendants, 40 years after Moses led them out of Egypt …..they had periods of government under judges, then the kings Saul, David and Solomon. the Jewish worship system was begun in the wilderness wanderings after God gave Moses the details at Mount Sinai….the Tabernacle was the center until Solomon used the materials David collected to build the First Temple. I would call that the “golden age”….
there is more democratic-type liberty and freedom and more fair laws in Israel than any Arab nation that imposes Islamic Sharia Law and makes all non-Muslims into lowest class—of those allowed to stay alive.
the PLO, PLA, Fatah, Hamas, etc…all deny Israel exists…
all plan to conquer every inch of Palestine and make it a land without any Jews, as the Arab States drove out Jews when Israel became an independent nation 1948. Jews are not tolerated in Arab-Muslim lands….except when pressured as in Egypt in recent times.
Palestino needs to read up on today’s growing number of writers and speakers who were born into Islam but have come out and are warning the Westerners of what is planned….beginning with Big Satan USA and little Satan Israel…!!!
Is there any sigificant difference between Sharea law and Halacha “הלכה “in Judaism?
if you really want to learn just ask any person of the Haredim jews ,may be if you know that they are almost identical you ll stop your hate attitude aginst muslims.
sorry that my stating true facts about Islam’s practices and teachings sounds like “hate”…..I do not hate people, and I am happy that with active evangelization via people, radio and satellite TV, more and more Muslims are finding the true God of the Bible and putting faith in the only name God provides for personal salvation….Jesus in English and Yeshua in Hebrew.
I hate the Islamic system that stole selected parts of the Hebrew scriptures, and perverted them….and invented a new “god”…..that Islam claims is the “highest god”…that is what “Allah Aksah” means when every Muslim Jihadist shouts it during murderous “suicide”….
When Yeshua returns to Jerusalem, the Mosaic worship system will be restored.
Shariah Law is anti-female, and anti-freedom and anti-Liberty. Yeshua’s self-sacrifice on the Roman cross to atone for mankind’s sins is the truest Liberty, when accepted by any human in Faith, and it is Eternal Liberty.
Jewish Law punished murderers, and taught that murder was both a civil crime and a spiritual SIN, from the time of Exodus 20:13 God’s Law said “you shall not murder”…a different Hebrew word (ratsach) than “kill” as in execution or war that God approved in some situations of man’s governing nations.
I’m not a scholar and I am a Gentile…Christian and as per Romans 11, a Zionist waiting for Yeshua’s Return. So I can’t answer Palestino on “Halacha” Law.
I do know that Judaism was God’s Menorah….the Light to enlighten the world, especially if men are faithful to the Biblical scriptures…..and that the First Jerusalem Church was 100% Jewish and was intended to remain connected to the Roots of Judaism, but by 400 A.D. error in the thinking of church leaders cut that connection, creating an apostate sort of church that departed from scripture.
Judaism and New Testament teachings elevated females, and taught the preciousness of human life….to Jews and Christians death is the #1 enemy……to “Allah” it is required for humans to die and kill….no respect for life exists in Islam.
When you talk about Cristianity and Judaism ,you tend to link them together.but in fact they are opposites.While Chritianty since the 4th century believed in trinity ,Judaism and Islam worshiped one God. Islam doesn’t consider itself a separate religion ,but a continuation of Judaism ,and Christianity in its pure form(before the interventions of rabbis and priests) as it was in the days of our grandfather Abraham.
Any way , you can’t preach me on respecting the life of humans ,while Israel still killing my people by the thousands- the early Jews killed lots of my people three thousand years ago , and that is the case with the US ,as a Christian nation in Iraq and other places in the world.
Pal, name one ethnic group on earth in any point in time, that hasn’t been attacked by an enemy that kills people.
“Trinity” does not mean “3 gods”….careful scripture study shows that the names of the Creator God in the Bible’s Old Testament and New Testament show that God is One Entity, but exists as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The scriptures are God’s revelation of Himself to his created human race…..Adam’s children….and the only reliable source of information about the One True God.
In the future the true O.T. and N.T. “religions” will be united and One Family of God, and it was errors of men that failed to stay true to scripture truths as God intended for Israel’s worship system and the New Covenant system. Both are based on Yeshua, God the Son who is the only Saviour for sinful humans.
You are omitting and ignoring the mass murders begun by Mohammad and taught by the Koran and Hadith of Islam.
Thousands, maybe millions have been murdered in the name of a religion that teaches contrary to the Bible…
Atheists will not go free….whether you believe God’s Word or not, every human will face God and receive the choice made in this life…..if Faith in Yeshua, eternal life and rewards in the company of God. If Yeshua is rejected, the “wages of sin”, Death, is your “reward” —-God does not force “submission” and there is no end of existence in the “afterlife”…..It is God’s Universe and God set the rules from Day One on this earth. God gave every human free will…..you determine the consequences.
In the future the true O.T. and N.T. “religions” will be united and One Family of God,
Tell me when is that happening?
And why they haven’t been united until now?
fennec, you are probably deliberately misinterpreting my posts…..I do not believe that I as a mere human have the revealed truth….
I do believe that God gave the Truth about himself and about the human race and God also gave His scheduled Plans for mankind and earth in the Bible.
The Bible is open to all humans to read and learn God’s unchangable Word. Anyone who wants to can verify that I post in agreement, not in opposition, to what God gave us….and God being God, there is no power in the universe that can dispute God and win.
Pal….many Bible predictions and prophecies have already been fulfilled…..the future Union of Israel and the Church will take place after Yeshua returns to Jerusalem to defeat all Israel’s enemies and to set up the Promised Kingdom of God over all the earth….Yeshua the King on a restored Throne of David and a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.
That is still future as of 11/29/10.
(the future Union is found in the Bible, New Testament, book of Romans and chapter 11….the roots and branches….Israel cut off from 70 A.D. dispersion by the Romans and the N.T. body of Jewish & Gentile believers “grafted in”……scripture says God will graft Israel back into the roots…..but God will do it on His schedule.)
(God invites Palestino to seek the truth in scripture and the offer of salvation from sin by faith in Yeshua (Jesus) is also God’s invitation to Palestino and every human…it is the loving God’s Grace and Mercy and Love…Yeshua shed His blood to atone for all sin but it only becomes effectual when a human by faith accepts it and prays to God the Father in the name of the Son, and asks for real salvation and assurance for eternity)
4uk4ata over 13 years ago
I’m not quite sure what they mean here - is Lebanon feeling threatened by Turkey’s rising influence, or is the bird symbolizing dove, thus friendship?
disgustedtaxpayer over 13 years ago
Turkey’s PM during a visit to Lebanon, which the UN has done nothing to hinder Iran in annexing Lebanon to the Islamic World Jihad association, warned Israel against any defensive response to the terrorists who often fire missiles into Israel…..
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=196792
Islamic terrorists are suspects in the assassination of the Lebanese PM, Rafik Hariri……Hizbullah is the likely Iranian puppet gang that did the murder, and the Turkish PM wants to delay the investigation findings…..CYA…Muslim-style….
Turkey is rapidly becoming captive to the growing Octopus, Iran’s Syria-Lebanon-Turkey? alliance, all dedicated to the elimination of Jewish Israel.
the Muslim Crescent is not a symbol of “peace” IMO…except the Islamic version = all enemies dead means peace for Muslims!
I support US defending our sister “democracy”…Israel…against all threats…national or terror organizations….and I support Israel defending its own survival.
Palestino over 13 years ago
I think that the Turkish cressent was turned by Bliebel into a peace sympol that surrounds Lebanon and protects it from civil war.
DT^ Israel can’t be a democracy because the Palestinians which are the majority of its population don’t have any rights ,like the right to vote in the kenesset or to be equal with the jews at the same time they are denied from getting their own state.
Tell me how can a risedent of the capital city be denied of the right to elect in a country because he belongs to a certain ethnic group???
and you stil call that apartheid a “democracy”..
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
I don’t think Islam per se wants to kill everyone Bin Laden calls “infidels”. Empires based on nothing but war usually attack the wrong guy and don’t last long (Napoleon, Hitler). If if was all about war, Islam wouldn’t have survived so far.
Palestino over 13 years ago
Dear true,
1- Jews lived their golden ages in Islamic and Arabic countries, the nations that drove them to the sea were all Christian , like Spain ,500 years ago ,orGermany with 6000000 victims,or Russia in the 19th century..etc.. 2- Palestinians who live under the Israeli rule in East Jerusalem (about quarter of a million)are denied the right to vote for the kenesset.\ 3-Iraq is a democracy now (thanks to the Amirecan effort!). 4 Can you call a country a democracy when you have laws for the jews and laws for the Palestinian?roads for the Jews and Roads for the Palestinians? earias for the Jews and areas for the Palestinians?Do you know that a palestinian from Jerusalem who goes out of the city for more than 5 years loses his right to to it?Do you know that He can’t marryfrom outside because his family will be considered strangers?and I have more Iif you have the time…
OmqR-IV.0 over 13 years ago
TCL: ”as someone who lives in an apartheid government”
Tell you what tcl, I’ll post as someone who lived in The Apartheid country. I’ve heard similar arguments raised in my time. ”You blacks never had it so good here! Look at the other African countries! Show me a black democracy and we will talk. You even have your own homelands and parliaments.” Usually spoken by a person sitting on what was the most arable land in the country, pointing at the 13% left over for “homelands” for 80% of the population. Usually someone holding all the cards backed by a powerful police state. We were all taught we were a democracy. You are correct though, Israel is a democracy. But is it one in name only? What are the facts on the ground? The Israeli Arabs represent a mere 20% of the population. They do have representation in the Knesset. The one interesting benefit of being Arab within Israel is that they are not conscripted. An interesting parallel to The Apartheid government where only whites were conscripted. I wonder why. By the way, Israeli Arabs themselves are not just one culture; they are various communities with different identities and religions. Not all are Muslim for instance. Many of the rights the Israeli Arabs have now had to be hard fought for. Even now these are being tested by those who resent the fact Israeli Arabs have equality, in the eyes of the law at least. But that is not really what happens in everyday life. There is de facto apartheid in day to day life in Israel. Despite having quotas, despite requiring equal status to its language and culture and access to all services, the Israeli Arabs are sadly and badly under represented. I suspect Palestino’s post probably reflects an ironic tone. The West bank & Gaza have their representatives, their government. But it is completely hemmed in and in effect controlled by Israel. There is no independence. There is no equality with Israelis. The rights of Palestinians within the occupied West bank are trampled on daily. Walls are erected criss-crossing Arab villages, denying access to their agriculture, roads are built exclusively used by settlers and denying many native Arabs access to amenities, and new homes are built on Arab lands. Now do we understand Palestino’s post? I do think Palestino is on record here stating he doesn’t wish Israel’s destruction nor has he ever stated he wishes the Jews be driven into the sea, so to liken him to those who do have those views, is rather poor show. He most certainly is bitter about Israel and has criticised it severely but to be honest, he isn’t going to be impartial, now is he?
It is not up to Palestino to provide examples of other Arab democracies. He is only concerned with what happens to his homeland. He is not a spokeperson for those countries so why do people often insist that Palestinians answer for other Arab states? They have screwed the Palestinians as much as everyone else.
Palestino over 13 years ago
omQ R,
I agree with most of your comment, but I still insist that Israel by defining itself as a “Jewish state ” ,conradicts fundamentally with being a democracy. after all,isn’t a dimocratic state a state for all its citizens?
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
Palestino; you have a good point in your first post. I wouldn’t say the Jews’s golden age was under muslim rule (that’s more under Solomon, if you ask me), but many far-right historians point out that christians and jews were “dhimmis” under muslim rule.
Jews, under christian rule, were burned!
disgustedtaxpayer over 13 years ago
the Jews established a nation in God’s Promised Land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’s descendants, 40 years after Moses led them out of Egypt …..they had periods of government under judges, then the kings Saul, David and Solomon. the Jewish worship system was begun in the wilderness wanderings after God gave Moses the details at Mount Sinai….the Tabernacle was the center until Solomon used the materials David collected to build the First Temple. I would call that the “golden age”….
there is more democratic-type liberty and freedom and more fair laws in Israel than any Arab nation that imposes Islamic Sharia Law and makes all non-Muslims into lowest class—of those allowed to stay alive.
the PLO, PLA, Fatah, Hamas, etc…all deny Israel exists… all plan to conquer every inch of Palestine and make it a land without any Jews, as the Arab States drove out Jews when Israel became an independent nation 1948. Jews are not tolerated in Arab-Muslim lands….except when pressured as in Egypt in recent times.
Palestino needs to read up on today’s growing number of writers and speakers who were born into Islam but have come out and are warning the Westerners of what is planned….beginning with Big Satan USA and little Satan Israel…!!!
Palestino over 13 years ago
DTP,
Is there any sigificant difference between Sharea law and Halacha “הלכה “in Judaism?
if you really want to learn just ask any person of the Haredim jews ,may be if you know that they are almost identical you ll stop your hate attitude aginst muslims.
disgustedtaxpayer over 13 years ago
sorry that my stating true facts about Islam’s practices and teachings sounds like “hate”…..I do not hate people, and I am happy that with active evangelization via people, radio and satellite TV, more and more Muslims are finding the true God of the Bible and putting faith in the only name God provides for personal salvation….Jesus in English and Yeshua in Hebrew.
I hate the Islamic system that stole selected parts of the Hebrew scriptures, and perverted them….and invented a new “god”…..that Islam claims is the “highest god”…that is what “Allah Aksah” means when every Muslim Jihadist shouts it during murderous “suicide”….
When Yeshua returns to Jerusalem, the Mosaic worship system will be restored.
Shariah Law is anti-female, and anti-freedom and anti-Liberty. Yeshua’s self-sacrifice on the Roman cross to atone for mankind’s sins is the truest Liberty, when accepted by any human in Faith, and it is Eternal Liberty.
Jewish Law punished murderers, and taught that murder was both a civil crime and a spiritual SIN, from the time of Exodus 20:13 God’s Law said “you shall not murder”…a different Hebrew word (ratsach) than “kill” as in execution or war that God approved in some situations of man’s governing nations.
I’m not a scholar and I am a Gentile…Christian and as per Romans 11, a Zionist waiting for Yeshua’s Return. So I can’t answer Palestino on “Halacha” Law.
I do know that Judaism was God’s Menorah….the Light to enlighten the world, especially if men are faithful to the Biblical scriptures…..and that the First Jerusalem Church was 100% Jewish and was intended to remain connected to the Roots of Judaism, but by 400 A.D. error in the thinking of church leaders cut that connection, creating an apostate sort of church that departed from scripture.
Judaism and New Testament teachings elevated females, and taught the preciousness of human life….to Jews and Christians death is the #1 enemy……to “Allah” it is required for humans to die and kill….no respect for life exists in Islam.
Palestino over 13 years ago
When you talk about Cristianity and Judaism ,you tend to link them together.but in fact they are opposites.While Chritianty since the 4th century believed in trinity ,Judaism and Islam worshiped one God. Islam doesn’t consider itself a separate religion ,but a continuation of Judaism ,and Christianity in its pure form(before the interventions of rabbis and priests) as it was in the days of our grandfather Abraham. Any way , you can’t preach me on respecting the life of humans ,while Israel still killing my people by the thousands- the early Jews killed lots of my people three thousand years ago , and that is the case with the US ,as a Christian nation in Iraq and other places in the world.
disgustedtaxpayer over 13 years ago
Pal, name one ethnic group on earth in any point in time, that hasn’t been attacked by an enemy that kills people.
“Trinity” does not mean “3 gods”….careful scripture study shows that the names of the Creator God in the Bible’s Old Testament and New Testament show that God is One Entity, but exists as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The scriptures are God’s revelation of Himself to his created human race…..Adam’s children….and the only reliable source of information about the One True God.
In the future the true O.T. and N.T. “religions” will be united and One Family of God, and it was errors of men that failed to stay true to scripture truths as God intended for Israel’s worship system and the New Covenant system. Both are based on Yeshua, God the Son who is the only Saviour for sinful humans.
You are omitting and ignoring the mass murders begun by Mohammad and taught by the Koran and Hadith of Islam. Thousands, maybe millions have been murdered in the name of a religion that teaches contrary to the Bible…
Atheists will not go free….whether you believe God’s Word or not, every human will face God and receive the choice made in this life…..if Faith in Yeshua, eternal life and rewards in the company of God. If Yeshua is rejected, the “wages of sin”, Death, is your “reward” —-God does not force “submission” and there is no end of existence in the “afterlife”…..It is God’s Universe and God set the rules from Day One on this earth. God gave every human free will…..you determine the consequences.
Palestino over 13 years ago
In the future the true O.T. and N.T. “religions” will be united and One Family of God, Tell me when is that happening? And why they haven’t been united until now?
disgustedtaxpayer over 13 years ago
fennec, you are probably deliberately misinterpreting my posts…..I do not believe that I as a mere human have the revealed truth…. I do believe that God gave the Truth about himself and about the human race and God also gave His scheduled Plans for mankind and earth in the Bible.
The Bible is open to all humans to read and learn God’s unchangable Word. Anyone who wants to can verify that I post in agreement, not in opposition, to what God gave us….and God being God, there is no power in the universe that can dispute God and win.
Pal….many Bible predictions and prophecies have already been fulfilled…..the future Union of Israel and the Church will take place after Yeshua returns to Jerusalem to defeat all Israel’s enemies and to set up the Promised Kingdom of God over all the earth….Yeshua the King on a restored Throne of David and a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. That is still future as of 11/29/10.
(the future Union is found in the Bible, New Testament, book of Romans and chapter 11….the roots and branches….Israel cut off from 70 A.D. dispersion by the Romans and the N.T. body of Jewish & Gentile believers “grafted in”……scripture says God will graft Israel back into the roots…..but God will do it on His schedule.) (God invites Palestino to seek the truth in scripture and the offer of salvation from sin by faith in Yeshua (Jesus) is also God’s invitation to Palestino and every human…it is the loving God’s Grace and Mercy and Love…Yeshua shed His blood to atone for all sin but it only becomes effectual when a human by faith accepts it and prays to God the Father in the name of the Son, and asks for real salvation and assurance for eternity)
Palestino over 13 years ago
You are absolutly right, fennec !