“I have nothing to hide, so it doesn’t bother me” is not a good excuse for it to happen. And I don’t CARE which presidents have or haven’t done it. It’s NOT a good thing for the Government to be doing to it’s OWN citizens!
If we knew our gov’t was run by people of honor, ethical character, and able to resist abusing their power, we could permit this with confidence. However, our two party cannibalistic oligarchy is filled with people who believe the ends justify any means used. It is a very small step from collecting info through which law enforcement can sift in the event of crimes to a society run by people who know everything about a citizen and who watch everything citizens do. Eisenhower was right, it takes an informed and educated electorate to stand up to the military industrial complex. It is said his draft for that speech included the word, Congressional.Respectfully,C.
When the people in power know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE, they can control the outcome of ANY situation. Including who will replace them. (If they ARE replaced.) That’s what is at stake here. Wake up sheep. You are not “safer.” Just the opposite.
So, by your somewhat agonizingly twisted logic, it wouldn’t be a problem to section off a section of a large city, or the entire city, where a crime occurred, place everyone under arrest, then weed out the actual perps?Oops, never mind, we already had that happen, the only thing missing was placing everyone under arrest.The continuing loss of freedoms, growth of the police state and twisted justifications provided for these violations of our freedoms means we have not learned from past mistakes. Take a moment to reflect on your history lessons, look back at the reasoning and justification used for the pogroms, rise of fascism, and any other number of things done by government to “protect the people” which only removed freedoms and further empowered the government.This isn’t a slippery slope, it a freaking slide and the government is enjoying the ride, get a clue.
Don’t blame “the government” – blame yourself for insisting to your representatives that the “Patriot Act” would protect you from the bad guys.The nasty liberals did mention at the time that the act was too broad. And don’t try to tell me it was the liberals that voted it in – it was everyone, liberal and conservative with the conservatives supporting it with the loudest rhetoric.
“For those on the left, well, there isn’t one, but you Obamabots must agree Obama is doing the right thing, and, since Bush, Jr did the exact same thing, he must have been doing the right thing, too.”
You missed the other option.
Some of us opposed it when Bush proposed it. Yes, we continue to oppose it.
The reality in the here and now is that we cannot trust our government not to abuse their power. We are being led by power freaks who have no interest in protecting us from anything; they want to use us.
They are destroying the country. If you take only one issue – that of Monsanto’s egregiously unethical business practises, you have a massive problem in which the government is complicit in helping Monsanto sweep their violations under the rug, and destroying the victim of their violation. That’s their MO; and the courts have supported that.
The wheat export from the State of Oregon alone is half a million dollars. The rest of the world actually tests for GMO in US imports, because they don’t want GMO.
Whether GMO is benign or not is not the issue here, the issue is if you can’t sell it, what are you going to do with it, and how are you going to replace the revenue?
I’d take it out of Monsanto’s hide – but guess who’s really going to foot the bill for that, unless we can get the government to deal with them?
That’s not the only issue the government should be dealing with and is not, but I know some posters have short attention spans, and I’ll settle for that recent one. I’m sure you can think of others.
“And all the conservatives I know did their best to make it fail.”
A lot of people, of various political persuasions would like to have seen it fail.
More confirmation that the government, politicians on both sides of the aisle, are NOT working for the best interests of either the country or the people in it.
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
“I have nothing to hide, so it doesn’t bother me” is not a good excuse for it to happen. And I don’t CARE which presidents have or haven’t done it. It’s NOT a good thing for the Government to be doing to it’s OWN citizens!
chazandru over 10 years ago
If we knew our gov’t was run by people of honor, ethical character, and able to resist abusing their power, we could permit this with confidence. However, our two party cannibalistic oligarchy is filled with people who believe the ends justify any means used. It is a very small step from collecting info through which law enforcement can sift in the event of crimes to a society run by people who know everything about a citizen and who watch everything citizens do. Eisenhower was right, it takes an informed and educated electorate to stand up to the military industrial complex. It is said his draft for that speech included the word, Congressional.Respectfully,C.
avarner over 10 years ago
When the people in power know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE, they can control the outcome of ANY situation. Including who will replace them. (If they ARE replaced.) That’s what is at stake here. Wake up sheep. You are not “safer.” Just the opposite.
dpbriley over 10 years ago
So, by your somewhat agonizingly twisted logic, it wouldn’t be a problem to section off a section of a large city, or the entire city, where a crime occurred, place everyone under arrest, then weed out the actual perps?Oops, never mind, we already had that happen, the only thing missing was placing everyone under arrest.The continuing loss of freedoms, growth of the police state and twisted justifications provided for these violations of our freedoms means we have not learned from past mistakes. Take a moment to reflect on your history lessons, look back at the reasoning and justification used for the pogroms, rise of fascism, and any other number of things done by government to “protect the people” which only removed freedoms and further empowered the government.This isn’t a slippery slope, it a freaking slide and the government is enjoying the ride, get a clue.
dzw3030 over 10 years ago
Bingo! Once the Database exists, someone will use it to further their agenda, regardless of original intent. All for the common good, of course.
Justice22 over 10 years ago
I am sure the NSA is going to use that call to my friend against me.
Catherine Spencer-Mills Premium Member over 10 years ago
Don’t blame “the government” – blame yourself for insisting to your representatives that the “Patriot Act” would protect you from the bad guys.The nasty liberals did mention at the time that the act was too broad. And don’t try to tell me it was the liberals that voted it in – it was everyone, liberal and conservative with the conservatives supporting it with the loudest rhetoric.
SergeitheAntagonist over 10 years ago
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
“For those on the left, well, there isn’t one, but you Obamabots must agree Obama is doing the right thing, and, since Bush, Jr did the exact same thing, he must have been doing the right thing, too.”
You missed the other option.
Some of us opposed it when Bush proposed it. Yes, we continue to oppose it.
The reality in the here and now is that we cannot trust our government not to abuse their power. We are being led by power freaks who have no interest in protecting us from anything; they want to use us.
They are destroying the country. If you take only one issue – that of Monsanto’s egregiously unethical business practises, you have a massive problem in which the government is complicit in helping Monsanto sweep their violations under the rug, and destroying the victim of their violation. That’s their MO; and the courts have supported that.
The wheat export from the State of Oregon alone is half a million dollars. The rest of the world actually tests for GMO in US imports, because they don’t want GMO.
Whether GMO is benign or not is not the issue here, the issue is if you can’t sell it, what are you going to do with it, and how are you going to replace the revenue?
I’d take it out of Monsanto’s hide – but guess who’s really going to foot the bill for that, unless we can get the government to deal with them?
That’s not the only issue the government should be dealing with and is not, but I know some posters have short attention spans, and I’ll settle for that recent one. I’m sure you can think of others.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
“The problem, of course, is that those in power currently feel that we are not “citizens”, but “subjects”.”
Let’s call a spade a spade, shall we? They consider us chattel.
Both sides of the aisle. Fodder for their Global Economy agenda.
If you knew no better, you might think they were all chronically drunk, or perhaps suffering from syphilis.
Megalomaniacs, the lot of them.
Hawthorne over 10 years ago
“And all the conservatives I know did their best to make it fail.”
A lot of people, of various political persuasions would like to have seen it fail.
More confirmation that the government, politicians on both sides of the aisle, are NOT working for the best interests of either the country or the people in it.