If one of your relative’s lives were dependent on information a terrorist had, I guarantee you would be in favor of ANY technique to get that information.
“If one of your relative’s lives were dependent on information a terrorist had, I guarantee you would be in favor of ANY technique to get that information.”
It’s too bad the intelligence that “bin Ladin determined to strike in US” intelligence was overlooked by the incompetents of the Bush administration. Ramirez knows no shame in kissing up to the Cheney crowd.
For one thing, every expert in the field of interrogation shows that so-called ‘enhanced interrogation’* does not work. Standard methods of interrogation work much better, partly because any actionable intelligence has legal strength; that which comes from ‘enhanced interrogation’ does not; but mostly because the information is no better and most of the time WORSE than the kind you get from standard interrogation methods.
If a terrorist had any information to save my relative’s life, I would DEMAND standard interrogation tactics. I want the intelligence gathered to be correct and legal. I want to be able to throw the book at this guy or at the guys that he has information on. You can’t do that from ‘enhanced interrogation’.
The other reason I would DEMAND standard interrogation methods is the fact that: We’re Americans, dangit! We don’t stoop to their level. We fight and die to protect our values and I’ll be d****ed if I’ll allow anyone to attack those values simply because they’re scared of someone. We didn’t destroy our values in response to the Nazis. We didn’t destroy our values in response to communists (though there were those that tried). We didn’t destroy our values in response to the British. We cannot destroy our values now because we have some lunatic criminals out there.
“Live free or die.” Remember that?
“Freedom isn’t free.” How about that one?
“These colors don’t run.” Or this one?
“Land of the free because of the brave.” I’m sure you know that one.
No. We do not torture. Period.
* Isn’t it amazing that those that attack phrases like “African American” or “Disabled Individual” keep trying push this “Enhanced Interrogation” terminology?
G.W. isn’t President anymore and Congressional leaders signed off on interrogation techniques more than 30 times. Libs what have you done for me lately?
In the end, this is the coward’s response. To say that we should abuse people because they killed our people is to say our society stands for nothing. To say that we will torture to save lives means that all those who gave their lives in defense of this country’s values died for nothing – because they died to defend a country where freedom means something, where justice is for all, where a person is innocent (and therefore not subject to punishment) until proven guilty. That is what people fought and died to preserve. Anything less is beneath us. This cartoon is the mentality of a third world despot.
The same logic the axis powers used in WWII to justify their genocide. Just as invalid for us as it was for them.
Bush made the decision to torture, not Cheney. Lets not muddle the facts to make ourselves think OUR PRESIDENT could not be that bad. The fact is, he was.
Congress refused to add waterboarding to it’s list of prohibited means of torture, thus keeping it legal…I’m against torture…but I’m also for catching enemies and killing them -this would require more loss of life on our part and collateral damage - So don’t be so quick to make these guys out as enemies of freedom. All of a sudden you no-rule-Libs are against “water-boarding” like it was anathema …
Smoke and mirrors: please don’t tell me you’re against “torture” because of your high-mindedness…You’re against water-boarding because you have nothing else to distract the American public with…Nothing to distract them from their growing cognizance that the average Democrat has his head where the sun don’t shine and are woefully un-prepared to lead the country. This isn’t Political Sci @ college this is real life.
“The Bush admnistastion was to busy trying to pick up the peices of what Clinton did to our military and intelligence branches to get the proper information.”
To the rest of you…Ramirez’s cartoon is a reminder of what happened on 9/11. Remember the song “Have You Forgotten?”? I think some of you have forgotten. Whatever it takes to keep Americans safe - that is what should be done!!! Even if it means a little water aerobics!!
“Ramirez’s cartoon is a reminder of what happened on 9/11.”
Yes. I remember painfully well what happened on that day. On that day, terrorists attacked America so that it would abandon its values and foundations, destroying everything that makes America “America”.
For eight years, we’ve played into their hands. We have destroyed our values and foundations to “keep Americans safe and alive”.
“Whatever it takes to keep Americans safe - that is what should be done!!!”
So, let’s say that the only way to “keep Americans safe” is to lock everyone up in underground bunkers, put everyone in padded cells, and take away everything that America stands for: Freedom.
Should that be done? You say “whatever it takes to keep Americans safe” and if denying freedom to Americans “keeps Americans safe”, is that what should be done?
Denying freedom to terrorists would keep America safe.
Daniel said “So, let’s say that the only way to “keep Americans safe” is to lock everyone up in underground bunkers, put everyone in padded cells, and take away everything that America stands for: Freedom.”
Typical LIB statement - twisting things to make a weak point. How about “Let’s say we lock up the terrorists….” Oh, I forgot - we did that & now BO wants to let them out! That should make you happy!
This was the second time the WTCs were attacked. How come everyones forgets that? Bush is applauding himself that it wasn’t attacked a third time. Once under Clinton, once under Bush; and hasn’t been attacked yet. That is some tortured logic to say that (wink wink) enhanced interrogation works.
B0B_E about 15 years ago
If one of your relative’s lives were dependent on information a terrorist had, I guarantee you would be in favor of ANY technique to get that information.
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“If one of your relative’s lives were dependent on information a terrorist had, I guarantee you would be in favor of ANY technique to get that information.”
No.
No, I wouldn’t.
deadheadzan about 15 years ago
It’s too bad the intelligence that “bin Ladin determined to strike in US” intelligence was overlooked by the incompetents of the Bush administration. Ramirez knows no shame in kissing up to the Cheney crowd.
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
For one thing, every expert in the field of interrogation shows that so-called ‘enhanced interrogation’* does not work. Standard methods of interrogation work much better, partly because any actionable intelligence has legal strength; that which comes from ‘enhanced interrogation’ does not; but mostly because the information is no better and most of the time WORSE than the kind you get from standard interrogation methods.
If a terrorist had any information to save my relative’s life, I would DEMAND standard interrogation tactics. I want the intelligence gathered to be correct and legal. I want to be able to throw the book at this guy or at the guys that he has information on. You can’t do that from ‘enhanced interrogation’.
The other reason I would DEMAND standard interrogation methods is the fact that: We’re Americans, dangit! We don’t stoop to their level. We fight and die to protect our values and I’ll be d****ed if I’ll allow anyone to attack those values simply because they’re scared of someone. We didn’t destroy our values in response to the Nazis. We didn’t destroy our values in response to communists (though there were those that tried). We didn’t destroy our values in response to the British. We cannot destroy our values now because we have some lunatic criminals out there.
“Live free or die.” Remember that? “Freedom isn’t free.” How about that one? “These colors don’t run.” Or this one? “Land of the free because of the brave.” I’m sure you know that one.
No. We do not torture. Period.
* Isn’t it amazing that those that attack phrases like “African American” or “Disabled Individual” keep trying push this “Enhanced Interrogation” terminology?
NoFearPup about 15 years ago
G.W. isn’t President anymore and Congressional leaders signed off on interrogation techniques more than 30 times. Libs what have you done for me lately?
cdward about 15 years ago
In the end, this is the coward’s response. To say that we should abuse people because they killed our people is to say our society stands for nothing. To say that we will torture to save lives means that all those who gave their lives in defense of this country’s values died for nothing – because they died to defend a country where freedom means something, where justice is for all, where a person is innocent (and therefore not subject to punishment) until proven guilty. That is what people fought and died to preserve. Anything less is beneath us. This cartoon is the mentality of a third world despot.
anatheist2009 about 15 years ago
The same logic the axis powers used in WWII to justify their genocide. Just as invalid for us as it was for them.
Bush made the decision to torture, not Cheney. Lets not muddle the facts to make ourselves think OUR PRESIDENT could not be that bad. The fact is, he was.
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“So in light of that what is the big deal about a little water aerobics and insect therapy.”
It’s illegal and is the antithesis to American values?
NoFearPup about 15 years ago
Congress refused to add waterboarding to it’s list of prohibited means of torture, thus keeping it legal…I’m against torture…but I’m also for catching enemies and killing them -this would require more loss of life on our part and collateral damage - So don’t be so quick to make these guys out as enemies of freedom. All of a sudden you no-rule-Libs are against “water-boarding” like it was anathema … Smoke and mirrors: please don’t tell me you’re against “torture” because of your high-mindedness…You’re against water-boarding because you have nothing else to distract the American public with…Nothing to distract them from their growing cognizance that the average Democrat has his head where the sun don’t shine and are woefully un-prepared to lead the country. This isn’t Political Sci @ college this is real life.
lalas about 15 years ago
Torture doesn’t work especially when it is a fishing expedition.
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“The Bush admnistastion was to busy trying to pick up the peices of what Clinton did to our military and intelligence branches to get the proper information.”
Uhm. Where’s your evidence of this?
anng628 about 15 years ago
Amen, Harley!!
To the rest of you…Ramirez’s cartoon is a reminder of what happened on 9/11. Remember the song “Have You Forgotten?”? I think some of you have forgotten. Whatever it takes to keep Americans safe - that is what should be done!!! Even if it means a little water aerobics!!
anng628 about 15 years ago
Daniel - just google “clinton cuts military budget” and you will have plenty of reading material!
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“Ramirez’s cartoon is a reminder of what happened on 9/11.”
Yes. I remember painfully well what happened on that day. On that day, terrorists attacked America so that it would abandon its values and foundations, destroying everything that makes America “America”.
For eight years, we’ve played into their hands. We have destroyed our values and foundations to “keep Americans safe and alive”.
“Whatever it takes to keep Americans safe - that is what should be done!!!”
So, let’s say that the only way to “keep Americans safe” is to lock everyone up in underground bunkers, put everyone in padded cells, and take away everything that America stands for: Freedom.
Should that be done? You say “whatever it takes to keep Americans safe” and if denying freedom to Americans “keeps Americans safe”, is that what should be done?
anng628 about 15 years ago
Denying freedom to terrorists would keep America safe.
Daniel said “So, let’s say that the only way to “keep Americans safe” is to lock everyone up in underground bunkers, put everyone in padded cells, and take away everything that America stands for: Freedom.”
Typical LIB statement - twisting things to make a weak point. How about “Let’s say we lock up the terrorists….” Oh, I forgot - we did that & now BO wants to let them out! That should make you happy!
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“BO wants to let [the terrorists] out!”
No. He doesn’t. Nice job on twisting things to make an invalid point.
lalas about 15 years ago
HQ – W and Co were busy celebrating the slashing of taxes for the wealthy. W’s never been known as a hard worker.
danielsangeo about 15 years ago
“Daniel - just google “clinton cuts military budget” and you will have plenty of reading material!”
What does that have to do with counterterrorism measures?
How about this?
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1995_cr/h950209-terror.htm
Colbert about 15 years ago
This was the second time the WTCs were attacked. How come everyones forgets that? Bush is applauding himself that it wasn’t attacked a third time. Once under Clinton, once under Bush; and hasn’t been attacked yet. That is some tortured logic to say that (wink wink) enhanced interrogation works.
Colbert about 15 years ago
torture doesn’t work