Gad … what a horror. Worse, I read that there is supposed to be an MD in attendance. A person who, as a matter of course, repeats The Hippocratic Oath before he or she becomes a fully fledged MD. An oath which contains the words – “,,, do no harm.”
Why must we still have the death penalty? We are supposed to have high-security prisons, prisons from which it’s claimed no prisoner has ever escaped.
It costs more to make sure we execute a prisoner properly (we believe in a fair trial, remember? Except in Guantanamo, I guess) than it does to keep him or her for life. Life imprisonment costs less.
As it happens, seems to me the Christian attitude should be that redemption is always possible. Who are we to decide it isn’t?
Especially when, as olfart notes, we have all-too-frequently gotten it wrong.
Why not just have forced labor camps in the middle of the Alaska wilds where escape would mean certain death? If we could have them make a product that would generate enough revenue to run the prison that much the better, though that may be unrealistic.
This of course is in lieu of the death penalty.
Trying to make the death penalty “humane”, may just be the greatest oxymoron in our idiot society. As to the Alaska wilderness, throw me in that briar patch, Brer’ Bear, I can do fine there, now downtown L.A. or Newark is a LOT more dangerous!
The tv show “Survivor” is based on a bunch of selfish bastards going to a perfectly nice place and messing it up with their scheming and atrocious behavior that makes me want to shoot them all.
The current teary request from the anti-death penalty contingent is life imprisonment with no parole. Sounds logical but the source of all of our liberal politics, Western Europe, has the next step and I assure you it will come if we abolish the death penalty. Having life imprisonment with no parole is cruel and unusual and we must give these poor miscreants a chance to get out of prison and lead a normal life. So after a number of years in prison for murder let them back into society. It is actually being discussed.
Olfart name one single instance in this country where an innocent man has been executed. Name one.
MM
Your logic is usually better than that. We put the liberals in charge and they passed laws basically saying you must spend >$1M to execute a murderer. (appeals, retrials, appeals, pleas, appeals). Then you say see how expensive it is. My way, trial, conviction execution 6-12 months. Much much cheaper than lifetime in prison.
GNW challenged: Olfart name one single instance in this country where an innocent man has been executed. Name one.
^^ I’m going to guess Gerald wants it to be innocent of any crime rather than just innocent of the crime the person was given capital punishment for. Tch, tch.
The death penalty isn’t justice, it’s revenge. Odd for a Libertarian to ask the State to kill someone on their behalf?
I think imposing the death penalty is wrong, for the reasons stated. But if a convict were offered the CHOICE of execution or LWOPP, I wouldn’t object to that.
There are convicts who WANT to be executed rather than be imprisoned for life, and I don’t see why they should be denied.
The only truly innocent man I can think of who was executed was Bruno Hauptmann, who was guilty of being an immigrant in the vicinity of the Lindbergh home.
But I’ve read of numerous instances where the “clear guilt” of an executed convict came under SEVERE doubt after it was too late to retry. You don’t get a lot of co-operation from police and prosecutors when you try to find out whether they executed someone for a crime they didn’t commit. Watch “The Thin Blue Line” to see an example of how anxious authorities were to get (and carry out) a capital conviction against Randall Adams, a man they knew to be innocent (the real cop-killer was a juvenile, and they knew they wouldn’t be able to send HIM to the chair).
The death penalty is simply DIFFERENT. This is built into the laws (in many states), and the lengthy, traumatic, and expensive appeals process automatically comes into play the moment the gavel comes down at the sentencing. Death sentences have been overturned not simply because the convict’s innocence was proven, but because the policework, prosecution, and judicial conduct leading to the sentence were sloppy (if not outright illegal), malicious, or simply not conclusive.
Frankly, if a killer DOES wind up on the streets after his conviction, it’s more likely because the sentence was overturned on appeal (which is totally appropriate; if due process is violated, the conviction cannot stand) than because he escaped.
With an LWOPP, the standards of review are not so high, and the appeals process is much simpler and cheaper.
tft over 14 years ago
Do executioners go home at night, relax in front of the TV, and play with their kids?
I imagine them drinking together, with other executioners.
jkshaw over 14 years ago
Gad … what a horror. Worse, I read that there is supposed to be an MD in attendance. A person who, as a matter of course, repeats The Hippocratic Oath before he or she becomes a fully fledged MD. An oath which contains the words – “,,, do no harm.”
Why must we still have the death penalty? We are supposed to have high-security prisons, prisons from which it’s claimed no prisoner has ever escaped.
HabaneroBuck over 14 years ago
Why should we pay 50-100 K a year for someone who deserves to be banished from the planet as established in a court of law?
Just hang ‘em. It was good enough in the old days, it’s good enough now. Electric chairs, injections, etc…just make a farce of the process.
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
It costs more to make sure we execute a prisoner properly (we believe in a fair trial, remember? Except in Guantanamo, I guess) than it does to keep him or her for life. Life imprisonment costs less. As it happens, seems to me the Christian attitude should be that redemption is always possible. Who are we to decide it isn’t? Especially when, as olfart notes, we have all-too-frequently gotten it wrong.
iamthemodextremist over 14 years ago
Why not just have forced labor camps in the middle of the Alaska wilds where escape would mean certain death? If we could have them make a product that would generate enough revenue to run the prison that much the better, though that may be unrealistic. This of course is in lieu of the death penalty.
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
Trying to make the death penalty “humane”, may just be the greatest oxymoron in our idiot society. As to the Alaska wilderness, throw me in that briar patch, Brer’ Bear, I can do fine there, now downtown L.A. or Newark is a LOT more dangerous!
The tv show “Survivor” is based on a bunch of selfish bastards going to a perfectly nice place and messing it up with their scheming and atrocious behavior that makes me want to shoot them all.
GNWachs over 14 years ago
The current teary request from the anti-death penalty contingent is life imprisonment with no parole. Sounds logical but the source of all of our liberal politics, Western Europe, has the next step and I assure you it will come if we abolish the death penalty. Having life imprisonment with no parole is cruel and unusual and we must give these poor miscreants a chance to get out of prison and lead a normal life. So after a number of years in prison for murder let them back into society. It is actually being discussed.
Olfart name one single instance in this country where an innocent man has been executed. Name one.
MM Your logic is usually better than that. We put the liberals in charge and they passed laws basically saying you must spend >$1M to execute a murderer. (appeals, retrials, appeals, pleas, appeals). Then you say see how expensive it is. My way, trial, conviction execution 6-12 months. Much much cheaper than lifetime in prison.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
^ ditto troutma on Survivor
OmqR-IV.0 over 14 years ago
GNW challenged: Olfart name one single instance in this country where an innocent man has been executed. Name one.
^^ I’m going to guess Gerald wants it to be innocent of any crime rather than just innocent of the crime the person was given capital punishment for. Tch, tch. The death penalty isn’t justice, it’s revenge. Odd for a Libertarian to ask the State to kill someone on their behalf?
fritzoid Premium Member over 14 years ago
I think imposing the death penalty is wrong, for the reasons stated. But if a convict were offered the CHOICE of execution or LWOPP, I wouldn’t object to that.
There are convicts who WANT to be executed rather than be imprisoned for life, and I don’t see why they should be denied.
The only truly innocent man I can think of who was executed was Bruno Hauptmann, who was guilty of being an immigrant in the vicinity of the Lindbergh home.
But I’ve read of numerous instances where the “clear guilt” of an executed convict came under SEVERE doubt after it was too late to retry. You don’t get a lot of co-operation from police and prosecutors when you try to find out whether they executed someone for a crime they didn’t commit. Watch “The Thin Blue Line” to see an example of how anxious authorities were to get (and carry out) a capital conviction against Randall Adams, a man they knew to be innocent (the real cop-killer was a juvenile, and they knew they wouldn’t be able to send HIM to the chair).
The death penalty is simply DIFFERENT. This is built into the laws (in many states), and the lengthy, traumatic, and expensive appeals process automatically comes into play the moment the gavel comes down at the sentencing. Death sentences have been overturned not simply because the convict’s innocence was proven, but because the policework, prosecution, and judicial conduct leading to the sentence were sloppy (if not outright illegal), malicious, or simply not conclusive.
Frankly, if a killer DOES wind up on the streets after his conviction, it’s more likely because the sentence was overturned on appeal (which is totally appropriate; if due process is violated, the conviction cannot stand) than because he escaped.
With an LWOPP, the standards of review are not so high, and the appeals process is much simpler and cheaper.