So you’re suggesting we should model American society on what a bunch of Nomads and people abroad think of America?
Aren’t you guys supposed to be BETTER than 8th century nomads? Those none too bright nomad see decadence everywhere. We won’t change them by shoving it in their faces. They stick to their old books because they are afraid of becoming what they think we are.
You guys are supposed to be westerners. Don’t put childish and gross shows on tv and then be surprised to see that others are offended and look down on you.
Plus , it’s not only the lowest common denominator that you gross out, it’s the entire world.
What I mean is that when muslim fondamentalists stone women, they say “if we don’t do it, we’ll be a reality tv show in no time” just like you guys say “If we say yes to anything Obama does, we’ll be communist China in no time”
The fact remains when stuffing you face with 56 hot dogs in 10 minutes or so makes you a “hero” and “celebrity”, and “role model”– you can put mustard on the national intellect.
Sigh…we have the highest standard of living in the world, but not the highest levels of education, lifespan, nor even the highest satisfaction with life. Competitive eating contests hardly strike me as a model for civilization. It says something about our current level of debate that we should even appear to disagree on some of this…
Most countries outside the U.S. require some study of English, the language of international travel (airports),and commerce. We have illiterate (functional) legislators, let alone voters, deciding our fate.
Japan, China, and Germany not only score higher on tests, we HIRE THEM, because our own country can’t provide enough educated individuals.
Eat a hot dog, have another beer, watch a football game (American only of course) take pride, relax.
Pup, you have a point in that it depends on what you measure, but I will note that your view of Germany is decidedly out of date, to put it kindly. Most countries have longer school hours and days and many have a more aggressive curriculum than we do, especially in math and science, but also including (for example) teaching languages from a much earlier age and insisting on fluency, and teaching languages also teaches you greater breadth of thinking as you re-examine your own language.
The question of whether you teach kids to think is a good one, but the conservatives in this country are not proposing that, they are proposing more drill and the “three Rs.” (I hate that - one out of three begin with R.) There are some innovative programs out there that use real research into learning styles, for example - but learning styles have been hardwired into British school systems for decades whereas we have not and depend more on the teacher’s individual styles.
In general, if you compare to the industrialized nations, we have good but not great elementary schools, poor-to-mediocre high schools, and great universities and colleges, when you compare curricula, challenging the students, etc.
churchill, if you think there’s a liberal indoctrination in this country’s school system, I advise reading Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. Fascinating and frightening – and it explains why the Texas Board of Education is such a threat to American education.
The best places to learn to think analytically and conceptually are Liberal-Arts-based universities. They have been shown to teach the ability to process complex information, conceptualize it, and compare and contrast effectively, surprisingly, just as intended.
I spend time with my children teaching them to think like scientists. We also watch a lot of Mythbusters…
Motive – thanks for an interesting post. This discussion could use some focus, some definitions, some clarity, but it’s not easy to talk about standards if we don’t agree about what the standards are. And it’s clear from these posts that there is no agreement about the fundamental terms of debate.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Competitive eating…
Radical muslims think we are degenerate….aren’t you guys concerned about he image people abroad get of America?
If that and MTV reality tv was all I saw of America, I wouldn’t blow myself up, but I’d look down on you guys.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
So you’re suggesting we should model American society on what a bunch of Nomads and people abroad think of America?
Aren’t you guys supposed to be BETTER than 8th century nomads? Those none too bright nomad see decadence everywhere. We won’t change them by shoving it in their faces. They stick to their old books because they are afraid of becoming what they think we are.
You guys are supposed to be westerners. Don’t put childish and gross shows on tv and then be surprised to see that others are offended and look down on you.
Plus , it’s not only the lowest common denominator that you gross out, it’s the entire world.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
What I mean is that when muslim fondamentalists stone women, they say “if we don’t do it, we’ll be a reality tv show in no time” just like you guys say “If we say yes to anything Obama does, we’ll be communist China in no time”
Not the same consequences, but same logic.
SuperGriz almost 14 years ago
CF,
“Those none too bright nomad see decadence everywhere.”
There is decadence everywhere.
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
The fact remains when stuffing you face with 56 hot dogs in 10 minutes or so makes you a “hero” and “celebrity”, and “role model”– you can put mustard on the national intellect.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
^ You’re not beneath them, you’re just not as high as you pretend to be.
Sooky Rottweiler says; No blue can these days, no Red Can either. When It’s hot, I prefer Fidoberries (dry dogfood) with cool water on the side.
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
Sigh…we have the highest standard of living in the world, but not the highest levels of education, lifespan, nor even the highest satisfaction with life. Competitive eating contests hardly strike me as a model for civilization. It says something about our current level of debate that we should even appear to disagree on some of this…
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
Most countries outside the U.S. require some study of English, the language of international travel (airports),and commerce. We have illiterate (functional) legislators, let alone voters, deciding our fate.
Japan, China, and Germany not only score higher on tests, we HIRE THEM, because our own country can’t provide enough educated individuals.
Eat a hot dog, have another beer, watch a football game (American only of course) take pride, relax.
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
Pup, you have a point in that it depends on what you measure, but I will note that your view of Germany is decidedly out of date, to put it kindly. Most countries have longer school hours and days and many have a more aggressive curriculum than we do, especially in math and science, but also including (for example) teaching languages from a much earlier age and insisting on fluency, and teaching languages also teaches you greater breadth of thinking as you re-examine your own language. The question of whether you teach kids to think is a good one, but the conservatives in this country are not proposing that, they are proposing more drill and the “three Rs.” (I hate that - one out of three begin with R.) There are some innovative programs out there that use real research into learning styles, for example - but learning styles have been hardwired into British school systems for decades whereas we have not and depend more on the teacher’s individual styles. In general, if you compare to the industrialized nations, we have good but not great elementary schools, poor-to-mediocre high schools, and great universities and colleges, when you compare curricula, challenging the students, etc. churchill, if you think there’s a liberal indoctrination in this country’s school system, I advise reading Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. Fascinating and frightening – and it explains why the Texas Board of Education is such a threat to American education. The best places to learn to think analytically and conceptually are Liberal-Arts-based universities. They have been shown to teach the ability to process complex information, conceptualize it, and compare and contrast effectively, surprisingly, just as intended. I spend time with my children teaching them to think like scientists. We also watch a lot of Mythbusters…
dwnoname almost 14 years ago
ethically?…. culture?
lonecat almost 14 years ago
Motive – thanks for an interesting post. This discussion could use some focus, some definitions, some clarity, but it’s not easy to talk about standards if we don’t agree about what the standards are. And it’s clear from these posts that there is no agreement about the fundamental terms of debate.