Why didn’t Obama just move them to high security stateside prisons and saved millions and millions of $$? I do know the answer and I’ll bet Ramirez does too.
Typical Ramirez over-reaction. U.S. troops delivered six long-held Yemeni prisoners from Guantanamo for resettlement in the Arabian Sea nation Oman on Friday, early Saturday, resuming transfers that had been stalled for months. They were never charged with a crime and were cleared for release at least five years ago.
Gitmo is is a dark stain upon American principles and a violation of our constitution. We imprisoned people indefinitely without due process. it accomplished little other than to demonstrate to the world we can behave just like N. Korea or Russia or China. Our moral high ground isn’t worth much if we can’t live it.
Between 2007 and 2009, Bush admin released or transferred 520 detainees from the facility at Guantanamo Bay – at least that’s how many are officially recorded.One of those detainees was Abu Sufian bin Qumu, who is a suspect in the Benghazi embassy attack.
Love this cartoon! Ramirez’s art work is amazing as his attention to detail. To use a current movie and to so adroitly give it a conservative slant is unbelievable. No wonder he won a Reuben again!
The idea that foreigners do not deserve due process is repugnant. So, when Iraq imprisons American reporters without trial, that’s fine, too? Or does it only work one way, because America can do whatever it wants to Muslims but no other country can do the same? It’s no wonder our credibility and respect fell disastrously overseas during the Cheney years, and has rebounded so strongly under Obama.
Civilian Courts Are Way Better Than Military Courts at Convicting Terrorists”An analysis of previous terrorism prosecutions, by both the Bush and Obama administrations, since September 11, 2001, shows a remarkable track record for civilian courts, which have prosecuted both large and small crimes with great efficiency and success.” There have been numerous objections to the official number over the years, but even the most conservative definition of the term “terrorism” pegs the number of convicted individuals somewhere between 150 and 220, including “20th hijacker” Zacarias Moussaoui (pictured above). The number of people convicted by military tribunal since 2001? Seven.Even though Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has held nearly 800 prisoners since being established 11 years ago, only seven individuals held there have ever been tried and convicted by a military commission. Only three are still in jail. Two of those were overturned and three more have already been released and deported to other countries. Six others, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was captured more than 10 years ago, still await their tribunals. Yet, the Justice Department claims to have over 300 prisoners currently serving sentences in regular U.S. prisons, with no deaths or escapes. Meanwhile, there are 166 prisoners currently at Guantanamo—and half are actively trying to kill themselves. Even more remarkable is that the NYU Law School study says the conviction success rate on terror cases in civilian courts is nearly 90 percent. That includes plea bargains, but it shows how remarkably easy it is to put someone in jail (too easy, perhaps) when the case involves the threat of a terror attack. It helps that civilian courts offer a wider range of possible charges, but the limitations placed on military commissions (no immigration or drug cases) is just another reason to avoid using them when possible.” http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/04/civilians-courts-vs-military-courts-terrorism/64489/
Mr. PainterArt,It isn’t about conviction, its about covert operations and the protection of intelligence gathering assets. A trial will bring those to light and ruin their ability to continue to operate..Mr. Lind,These are ‘prisoners of war’ who can be held until the end of hostilities..Mr. Corzak,It isn’t about the count, its about the quality, low level detainees were indeed released, that is NO evidence to release high value detainees. As evidenced by the release of Abu Sufian bin Qumu, even low-level detainees can become an issue after release, further calling into question the intelligence of releasing high-level detainees.
“Shock and Awe”, Abu Ghraib, and Gitmo, all evidence that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush folks were ethically willling to accept our version of Pearl Harbor, and Auschwitz.
If they were combatants of a nation, they deserved to be tried, at the Hague. If they weren’t, then their acts were criminal, and they should be held in civilian prisons like “super max” and tried in our regular court system. We’ve done neither.
Mr. Locke said, in reponse to Night-Gaunt49 – “I love it. You have just accused the USA of terrorism, you traitor. How you must hate this country!”
^ Mr. Locke, I believe it is the highest form of patriotism to criticize one’s own country if one believes that country to be doing something wrong. To do so takes analysis, courage, and priciples.
No, we abide by the Geneva Conventions because we are not monsters like the guys cutting off heads in the Middle East. We abide by the Geneva Conventions because if we can pick and choose and every other country can pick and choose than it becomes meaningless and we all become monsters. If the US is to be an example for other countries to aspire to we can not take the low road. It all comes down to the Golden Rule.
Mr PainterArt,“”Are you saying that covert operations and protection of intelligent gather assets can not happen in civilian courts?””That is exactly what I’m saying. High profile civilian court cases become circuses like the OJ trial where NOTHING was served especially justice. IN the case of some of these high profile cases the court would simply become another target rich environment.
The Underwear Bomber?? Really? You’re basing your position on a Nigerian INDIVIDUAL with NO ties to ANY establish terrorist group, whose info thus far has led to nothing?? In the past your positions were much better supported, I am disappointed.
Keeping prisoners in Guantanamo has nothing at all to do with how dangerous those specific individuals might be alone, but how they can rally support. Comparing them to the thugs currently in our prison system is apples and pomegranates.
The reported cost of keeping a prisoner in Guantanamo is stilted, it assumes that without the prisoners we would close the base and fire the guards, that is inaccurate and simply a case of playing with number until the benefit your position.
Mr. Night-Gaunt,That is correct the GWOT is open ended … EXACTLY has was claimed by Mr. Bush when he approached congress to approve his plans. If it goes on for centuries, then we house detainees for centuries.
Odon Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Why didn’t Obama just move them to high security stateside prisons and saved millions and millions of $$? I do know the answer and I’ll bet Ramirez does too.
BaltoBill almost 9 years ago
Typical Ramirez over-reaction. U.S. troops delivered six long-held Yemeni prisoners from Guantanamo for resettlement in the Arabian Sea nation Oman on Friday, early Saturday, resuming transfers that had been stalled for months. They were never charged with a crime and were cleared for release at least five years ago.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Gitmo is is a dark stain upon American principles and a violation of our constitution. We imprisoned people indefinitely without due process. it accomplished little other than to demonstrate to the world we can behave just like N. Korea or Russia or China. Our moral high ground isn’t worth much if we can’t live it.
Arthur I Romeo Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Mr. Lind you are an American apologist .MOVE!
corzak almost 9 years ago
Director of National Intelligence report: Bush-Cheney released 171 Gitmo prisoners who returned to battlefield, compared to Obama’s 7,
corzak almost 9 years ago
Between 2007 and 2009, Bush admin released or transferred 520 detainees from the facility at Guantanamo Bay – at least that’s how many are officially recorded.One of those detainees was Abu Sufian bin Qumu, who is a suspect in the Benghazi embassy attack.
FishDog93 almost 9 years ago
Love this cartoon! Ramirez’s art work is amazing as his attention to detail. To use a current movie and to so adroitly give it a conservative slant is unbelievable. No wonder he won a Reuben again!
ARodney almost 9 years ago
The idea that foreigners do not deserve due process is repugnant. So, when Iraq imprisons American reporters without trial, that’s fine, too? Or does it only work one way, because America can do whatever it wants to Muslims but no other country can do the same? It’s no wonder our credibility and respect fell disastrously overseas during the Cheney years, and has rebounded so strongly under Obama.
PainterArt Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Civilian Courts Are Way Better Than Military Courts at Convicting Terrorists”An analysis of previous terrorism prosecutions, by both the Bush and Obama administrations, since September 11, 2001, shows a remarkable track record for civilian courts, which have prosecuted both large and small crimes with great efficiency and success.” There have been numerous objections to the official number over the years, but even the most conservative definition of the term “terrorism” pegs the number of convicted individuals somewhere between 150 and 220, including “20th hijacker” Zacarias Moussaoui (pictured above). The number of people convicted by military tribunal since 2001? Seven.Even though Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has held nearly 800 prisoners since being established 11 years ago, only seven individuals held there have ever been tried and convicted by a military commission. Only three are still in jail. Two of those were overturned and three more have already been released and deported to other countries. Six others, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was captured more than 10 years ago, still await their tribunals. Yet, the Justice Department claims to have over 300 prisoners currently serving sentences in regular U.S. prisons, with no deaths or escapes. Meanwhile, there are 166 prisoners currently at Guantanamo—and half are actively trying to kill themselves. Even more remarkable is that the NYU Law School study says the conviction success rate on terror cases in civilian courts is nearly 90 percent. That includes plea bargains, but it shows how remarkably easy it is to put someone in jail (too easy, perhaps) when the case involves the threat of a terror attack. It helps that civilian courts offer a wider range of possible charges, but the limitations placed on military commissions (no immigration or drug cases) is just another reason to avoid using them when possible.” http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/04/civilians-courts-vs-military-courts-terrorism/64489/
Bar Pluc almost 9 years ago
Mr. PainterArt,It isn’t about conviction, its about covert operations and the protection of intelligence gathering assets. A trial will bring those to light and ruin their ability to continue to operate..Mr. Lind,These are ‘prisoners of war’ who can be held until the end of hostilities..Mr. Corzak,It isn’t about the count, its about the quality, low level detainees were indeed released, that is NO evidence to release high value detainees. As evidenced by the release of Abu Sufian bin Qumu, even low-level detainees can become an issue after release, further calling into question the intelligence of releasing high-level detainees.
Kentcee almost 9 years ago
You dumbbells. These men are psychopathic killers. They need to be locked up somewhere. Or, dropped out of a c-5 over the deepest part of the ocean
Dtroutma almost 9 years ago
“Shock and Awe”, Abu Ghraib, and Gitmo, all evidence that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush folks were ethically willling to accept our version of Pearl Harbor, and Auschwitz.
If they were combatants of a nation, they deserved to be tried, at the Hague. If they weren’t, then their acts were criminal, and they should be held in civilian prisons like “super max” and tried in our regular court system. We’ve done neither.
Dtroutma almost 9 years ago
P.S. why did he keep the “W” clone?
piobaire almost 9 years ago
Mr. Locke said, in reponse to Night-Gaunt49 – “I love it. You have just accused the USA of terrorism, you traitor. How you must hate this country!”
^ Mr. Locke, I believe it is the highest form of patriotism to criticize one’s own country if one believes that country to be doing something wrong. To do so takes analysis, courage, and priciples.
PainterArt Premium Member almost 9 years ago
No, we abide by the Geneva Conventions because we are not monsters like the guys cutting off heads in the Middle East. We abide by the Geneva Conventions because if we can pick and choose and every other country can pick and choose than it becomes meaningless and we all become monsters. If the US is to be an example for other countries to aspire to we can not take the low road. It all comes down to the Golden Rule.
Gerald Henley almost 9 years ago
@PainterArt
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
If that is the case, shouldn’t we be beheading them??? We should follow their golden rule.
Bar Pluc almost 9 years ago
Mr PainterArt,“”Are you saying that covert operations and protection of intelligent gather assets can not happen in civilian courts?””That is exactly what I’m saying. High profile civilian court cases become circuses like the OJ trial where NOTHING was served especially justice. IN the case of some of these high profile cases the court would simply become another target rich environment.
The Underwear Bomber?? Really? You’re basing your position on a Nigerian INDIVIDUAL with NO ties to ANY establish terrorist group, whose info thus far has led to nothing?? In the past your positions were much better supported, I am disappointed.
Keeping prisoners in Guantanamo has nothing at all to do with how dangerous those specific individuals might be alone, but how they can rally support. Comparing them to the thugs currently in our prison system is apples and pomegranates.
The reported cost of keeping a prisoner in Guantanamo is stilted, it assumes that without the prisoners we would close the base and fire the guards, that is inaccurate and simply a case of playing with number until the benefit your position.
Mr. Night-Gaunt,That is correct the GWOT is open ended … EXACTLY has was claimed by Mr. Bush when he approached congress to approve his plans. If it goes on for centuries, then we house detainees for centuries.