First, can we tone it down a notch guys? It’s getting pretty hostile in here, and it’s not needed. We can exchange views and opinions without devolving to primates throwing feces at each other. Please try to keep it professional.As to the points above, first, let’s talk about opednance’s comment. Coal? Really? Let’s talk comparisons.- After 9/11, Afghanistan was known to be hiding terrorists and the terrorist-supporting Taliban was running the country. They needed an a$$-whooping, so they got one. Our troops were extremely disciplined in who we engaged… the ROE got so stupid that we couldn’t actually shoot someone unless they were in the act of shooting at us, and we could guarantee that our round would strike only the person shooting at us. We use precision munitions to ideally strike only our targets, they use PBIED’s, VBIED’s, and Roadside IED’s. The PBIED’s and VBIED’s slaughter their own people in droves; ours have the occasional collateral damage. Don’t lay those casualties at our feet; they were killing their own people.- Iraq was ruled by Saddam who has historically murdered his own people. He gassed the Kurds, and terrorized his own citizenry. He employed death squads to keep people in check by using fear. I remember seeing footage where someone offended someone in a death squad, so they dragged them out into the street and chopped off their hand right there. They would rape and maim their own women. They also employed massive IED attacks, and they indiscriminately attacked and killed their own people, sometimes not even striking at us; frequently they were trying to intimidate those who were signing up to be Iraqi Police to protect their own country. The insurgency that was created was responsible for the vast majority of their own deaths; we took great pains to ensure we did not strike civilians or their homes. During the invasion(s) of Fallujah, we notified the local populace to clear out weeks in advance if they didn’t want to be subjected to our military engagement. We telegraphed our punch so we minimized civilian casualties. I’m pretty certain the insurgents gave their people no such courtesy.So yeah… your tens of thousands argument is a paper tiger: they did it to themselves. If we didn’t get involved, many others would be tortured, maimed, and killed because of the regime that was in place in both countries. Don’t lay those deaths at our feet because they chose to use weapons that murdered their own people.@ Crosspatch: Based on polls and surveys, the Republican “Obstructionism” that was in place was justified: the program is a train wreck, the costs are soaring, lies were employed to provide its passage, and the American Public has NEVER had a positive review of it. Sounds to me like the Republicans were doing what they were hired to do: Represent the people of this country. Based on what we know and what’s been done, it is the Democrats who jammed it down the throat of the American Public should bear the brunt of the fallout from it. In fact, I’m pretty certain they did in 2010 and a month ago.
What a piker that Gruber was, the guys who got $80 million from Bush and Cheney to get the worst bootlickers in the CiA to use torture didn’t even have to have any experience in the field to con them!
Odon Premium Member over 9 years ago
Tens of thousands dead is not pocket change.
Observer fo Irony over 9 years ago
Who will be guilty of wasting the money, the Democrats for spending it the Affordable Care Act or the Republicans for abolishing the Act?
eugene57 over 9 years ago
Bush spent it, Pres. Obama put it on the books.
Wraithkin over 9 years ago
First, can we tone it down a notch guys? It’s getting pretty hostile in here, and it’s not needed. We can exchange views and opinions without devolving to primates throwing feces at each other. Please try to keep it professional.As to the points above, first, let’s talk about opednance’s comment. Coal? Really? Let’s talk comparisons.- After 9/11, Afghanistan was known to be hiding terrorists and the terrorist-supporting Taliban was running the country. They needed an a$$-whooping, so they got one. Our troops were extremely disciplined in who we engaged… the ROE got so stupid that we couldn’t actually shoot someone unless they were in the act of shooting at us, and we could guarantee that our round would strike only the person shooting at us. We use precision munitions to ideally strike only our targets, they use PBIED’s, VBIED’s, and Roadside IED’s. The PBIED’s and VBIED’s slaughter their own people in droves; ours have the occasional collateral damage. Don’t lay those casualties at our feet; they were killing their own people.- Iraq was ruled by Saddam who has historically murdered his own people. He gassed the Kurds, and terrorized his own citizenry. He employed death squads to keep people in check by using fear. I remember seeing footage where someone offended someone in a death squad, so they dragged them out into the street and chopped off their hand right there. They would rape and maim their own women. They also employed massive IED attacks, and they indiscriminately attacked and killed their own people, sometimes not even striking at us; frequently they were trying to intimidate those who were signing up to be Iraqi Police to protect their own country. The insurgency that was created was responsible for the vast majority of their own deaths; we took great pains to ensure we did not strike civilians or their homes. During the invasion(s) of Fallujah, we notified the local populace to clear out weeks in advance if they didn’t want to be subjected to our military engagement. We telegraphed our punch so we minimized civilian casualties. I’m pretty certain the insurgents gave their people no such courtesy.So yeah… your tens of thousands argument is a paper tiger: they did it to themselves. If we didn’t get involved, many others would be tortured, maimed, and killed because of the regime that was in place in both countries. Don’t lay those deaths at our feet because they chose to use weapons that murdered their own people.@ Crosspatch: Based on polls and surveys, the Republican “Obstructionism” that was in place was justified: the program is a train wreck, the costs are soaring, lies were employed to provide its passage, and the American Public has NEVER had a positive review of it. Sounds to me like the Republicans were doing what they were hired to do: Represent the people of this country. Based on what we know and what’s been done, it is the Democrats who jammed it down the throat of the American Public should bear the brunt of the fallout from it. In fact, I’m pretty certain they did in 2010 and a month ago.
dogday Premium Member over 9 years ago
My main complaint with the ‘toon is that I’ve never seen Mr. Gruber that well-dressed or looking that intelligent. Or professional.
Pauleytee over 9 years ago
He was not the architect, except he is caught on tape “fully disclosing” to his classroom, that he was. Liar, just like Barry.
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
What a piker that Gruber was, the guys who got $80 million from Bush and Cheney to get the worst bootlickers in the CiA to use torture didn’t even have to have any experience in the field to con them!