ANandy please either take a deep breath prior to tapping your keys or perhaps take a remedial course in…English101?
Labor needed to reform management back in the day. Now our noble corporate citizens feel insulted when they are obliged to remunerate the worker bees fairly. Please find me a monogrammed hankie.
Cheap labor is not skilled,
Skilled labor is not cheap.
human,
I am a conservative but I want to make a very big point with you. Whatever you think of the current condition of the United States, it all came to past by individuals with initiative, self reliance, and drive. There was no social ‘safety net’ so they had to do what they had to do. Having said that, if it had not been noted by some that there were vast ‘inequities’ in labor, there would still be child labor for one. If you think that ‘leveling the playing field’ with confiscatory taxing will help the average worker, think again. Unless there is productivity commensurate with wages, the effect is simply inflationary. Big labor a better way around the world? Nah. Compensation in relationship to the actual value for products produced makes much better sense.
Michael Ramirez is the most talented and intelligent editorial cartoonist in history and the most brilliant satirist in the last 100 years. He sums up an argument in one superb and devastating drawing. I have followed him from the Memphis Commercial Appeal to LA Times to IBD.Thanks, Go Comics for including him in my subscription..
zekedog
I could not agree more,
Cheap labor is not skilled
Skilled labor is not cheap
…except in the case of non-manufacturing jobs going to the Phillipines and India for instance. Then it becomes more a case of supply and demand. If there is an ample supply of talented labor, the price is indeed brought down regardless of the schooling involved. However, if there are jobs that require a minimum of skill, but we are hard pressed to fill them, then ‘cheap labor’ for those jobs indeed comes at a cost. Do you remember the good old days when plumbers, received much scorn for their labor. I dare say, in present times, although it is a much more competitive field, many a man and wife would LOVE for their eligible daughter to come home with a potential future son-in-law with such credentials. Heaven forbid she bring home a lad with a Liberal Arts degree with a minor in Psychology~! ;)
PS: just took the German Shepherd (a rescued dog)out for a roll in the snow! I must get the inference you like dogs by your name. (Anyone who likes critters has to be ok in my humble opinion)
It might be noted that even Ayn Rand’s buddy Alan Greenspan admitted in 2008 that the “free” market cost us all way too much. They misread the unlimited potential of greed.
Unions were formed for a reason, please read the history of America from 1880 - 1920 (or China and Russia right now) and you will see that the wealth owners were building 3, 4 or 5 manison while their employes lived in shacks, because they wanted to impress or compete with the other rich who were building manisons.
I am a car freak, I read a lot of car magazines, so I realize that the super wealthy are buying cars that I would love to drive, the cars cost $500,000 - 2 million, have 600 - 1,000 horse power, and can go 200 MPH!
I wondered where these people went to drive these types of car, then one of my magazines did a series on the private tracks/country clubs these people building for themselves. Much like a private golf course, but with 3 - 5 miles of race track, complete with garage facilities, condos, so you sleep near you car, resturants, and all of the other facilities the rich are use to.
Cost of membership (and this is only for the right to belong, using the track costs extra) $100,000 +, costs of building the tracks, condo, etc 35 - 50 million!
So you see, even today, we can trust the rich to put their employees and our country’s needs first.
Remember the Gold Rule #2 – Enough is never enough.
Happy Monday believecommonsense. Obama (Pelosi and Reid) are the puppets of the unions and big labor.
In exchange for union monetary support, IF healthcare passes, unions are exempt from paying taxes on the cadillac health plans.
They wish to remove the teeth from “no child left behind” because the schools can’t meet the demand for better educated students. Against the creation of charter schools which removes students from the general population going to public schools.
Extending unemployment benefits up to 99 weeks (52 weeks in a year) as to deflate numbers of unemployed because only actively job seeking persons are counted in the unemployment percentage.
Tax payers have to bail out pensions for teachers and retired village/state/county retirees. Carl McCall was considered a genius for putting so much pension money into stocks in the 1990s. Then the market crashed and New Yorkers have to make up the difference. Any one bailing out your 401k? Probably not, unless you belong to a union.
R Vent, What you are not taking into consideration is that workers now have the freedom to leave one employer and move on. There is no loyalty on EITHER side. If management leaves you PO’d, you ditch THEM. That is a great equalizer, if you are good. They want to keep you. Of course in a union job, it doesn’t matter if you are good or not, the union becomes the “management” and you do as you are told. And make sure you don’t do too much, you’ll make the others look bad.
Leave an employer and move on? You’re joking right? Who’s gonna hire that person if they quit? We’re in a recession loco in case you haven’t noticed. And also how does that person leave a job that offers health care coverage for a job that doesn’t?
Maybe you haven’t noticed but job security in these United States is non-existent. Juan and Achmed can easily come here and do what you do for less. So don’t give me that nonsense about leaving your job for another. Last I checked unemployment is still above 10%.
It’s simple, create the ” world” you want to support your beliefs. There is no need for welfare because all of the people on welfare are “welfare queens” who have dozen of kids and drive Cadillacs. Or Equal Opportunity Programs are no longer necessary, and all they do is take jobs from qualified people and give them to unqualified people because they are a minority!
LOCO - Go to a factory, or shop with union labor and watch, you will see, people working hard, ususally very hard, and no “Union Rep” walking around telling them so slow down. It is an old myth.
If we are going to argue about things that need to be done, lets talk facts not myths.
I agree that unions and teachers are normally considered part of the Democratic base.
But my understanding is that Obama nixed the union exemption from taxes on cadilac health plans. Taxing cadillac plans was part of the Senate bill, not the house bill. After both bills passed their respective houses, and Dems met (yes, behind closed doors) to consider how to reconcile the two versions (a normal process, by the way), some House Dems proposed exempting unions if the Senate version prevailed. Obama nixed it. Exempting unions from cadillac plan taxes was never put in an official bill, it never made it out of conference committee discussions. Now, it looks like the House version of raising additional revenue will prevail; adding medicare taxes to investment income that is not now subject to any Medicare taxes. (I’m totally opposed to union exemptions, as I am to all special carve outs and sweet deals.)
Re education and teachers: Obama was tough on teacher accountability during the campaign. (And I agreed with him then and now.) Teachers unions backed him, but their leaders also expressed concern about his positions on “holding teachers accountable” and merit-based performance evaluations. His views have never been in line with teachers unions.
Today, in case you missed it, in a speech he gave on education, he got even tougher on holding teachers accountable for results. He expressed some support for the Rhode island school board that fired its teachers and staff for chronic and severe under performance. (Only 7 percent of 11th graders passed the state math test.)
So, in these two cases, he showed he isn’t a captive of this particular special interest — unions, including teachers’ unions.
Hey there, johndh123–yeah, besides dogs being the unconditional love ambassadors in the pet dept., I’ve found they are also accurate “character” barometers. Zeke is what we call a Hatteras Retriever–our vet guesses 5 different breeds course through his blood. Our daughter rescued him as a puppy. He was in a box (with 4 of his siblings) dropped in the middle of a busy hiway. Beyond comprehension. Happily all 5 survived. They were starved and smaller than the palm of my hand.
Your mentioning of a plumber reminded me of the joke…
The plumber hands a doctor his bill. The doc says “This is more than I charge my patients for my time!” The plumber replies “Yeah, I used to be a surgeon but just couldn’t make ends meet…”
We need more credible trade schools for our youngsters.
The buzz in the business community is that more often than not our kids coming out of basic training/armed forces are better equipped for job placement than many college grads.
Please give your German Shepherd a back scratch for me!
Ken, R.V. - actually, I work in a union job, and I was actually nominated to represent my co-workers as the shop steward. Either of you???Actually, I earned my degree in Economics, and worked in the private sector for 20+ years before I quit and took a paycut to come and work for the Dept of Public Welfare, because I know “welfare queens” (whatever that means in your evil mind) and Cadillacs do not exist. Either of you????
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
Big labor…what a joke. Ramirez must seriously think his readership is stupid…oh wait!
zekedog55 about 14 years ago
ANandy please either take a deep breath prior to tapping your keys or perhaps take a remedial course in…English101?
Labor needed to reform management back in the day. Now our noble corporate citizens feel insulted when they are obliged to remunerate the worker bees fairly. Please find me a monogrammed hankie.
Cheap labor is not skilled, Skilled labor is not cheap.
johndh123 about 14 years ago
human, I am a conservative but I want to make a very big point with you. Whatever you think of the current condition of the United States, it all came to past by individuals with initiative, self reliance, and drive. There was no social ‘safety net’ so they had to do what they had to do. Having said that, if it had not been noted by some that there were vast ‘inequities’ in labor, there would still be child labor for one. If you think that ‘leveling the playing field’ with confiscatory taxing will help the average worker, think again. Unless there is productivity commensurate with wages, the effect is simply inflationary. Big labor a better way around the world? Nah. Compensation in relationship to the actual value for products produced makes much better sense.
billbruce about 14 years ago
Michael Ramirez is the most talented and intelligent editorial cartoonist in history and the most brilliant satirist in the last 100 years. He sums up an argument in one superb and devastating drawing. I have followed him from the Memphis Commercial Appeal to LA Times to IBD.Thanks, Go Comics for including him in my subscription..
johndh123 about 14 years ago
zekedog I could not agree more, Cheap labor is not skilled Skilled labor is not cheap …except in the case of non-manufacturing jobs going to the Phillipines and India for instance. Then it becomes more a case of supply and demand. If there is an ample supply of talented labor, the price is indeed brought down regardless of the schooling involved. However, if there are jobs that require a minimum of skill, but we are hard pressed to fill them, then ‘cheap labor’ for those jobs indeed comes at a cost. Do you remember the good old days when plumbers, received much scorn for their labor. I dare say, in present times, although it is a much more competitive field, many a man and wife would LOVE for their eligible daughter to come home with a potential future son-in-law with such credentials. Heaven forbid she bring home a lad with a Liberal Arts degree with a minor in Psychology~! ;) PS: just took the German Shepherd (a rescued dog)out for a roll in the snow! I must get the inference you like dogs by your name. (Anyone who likes critters has to be ok in my humble opinion)
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
It might be noted that even Ayn Rand’s buddy Alan Greenspan admitted in 2008 that the “free” market cost us all way too much. They misread the unlimited potential of greed.
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
Unions were formed for a reason, please read the history of America from 1880 - 1920 (or China and Russia right now) and you will see that the wealth owners were building 3, 4 or 5 manison while their employes lived in shacks, because they wanted to impress or compete with the other rich who were building manisons.
I am a car freak, I read a lot of car magazines, so I realize that the super wealthy are buying cars that I would love to drive, the cars cost $500,000 - 2 million, have 600 - 1,000 horse power, and can go 200 MPH!
I wondered where these people went to drive these types of car, then one of my magazines did a series on the private tracks/country clubs these people building for themselves. Much like a private golf course, but with 3 - 5 miles of race track, complete with garage facilities, condos, so you sleep near you car, resturants, and all of the other facilities the rich are use to.
Cost of membership (and this is only for the right to belong, using the track costs extra) $100,000 +, costs of building the tracks, condo, etc 35 - 50 million!
So you see, even today, we can trust the rich to put their employees and our country’s needs first.
Remember the Gold Rule #2 – Enough is never enough.
petergrt about 14 years ago
Large corporations love large labor.
The free market however, does not, and thus big companies are ultimately killed by the big labor.
The big labor is now in the process of doing to governments what they did to the major manufacturing.
What is the reason for a union for government workers, or public school teachers?
believecommonsense about 14 years ago
For those who applaud this toon, can you share with all of us what Obama has done that is exemplified by this toon?
Imajs Premium Member about 14 years ago
Happy Monday believecommonsense. Obama (Pelosi and Reid) are the puppets of the unions and big labor.
In exchange for union monetary support, IF healthcare passes, unions are exempt from paying taxes on the cadillac health plans. They wish to remove the teeth from “no child left behind” because the schools can’t meet the demand for better educated students. Against the creation of charter schools which removes students from the general population going to public schools. Extending unemployment benefits up to 99 weeks (52 weeks in a year) as to deflate numbers of unemployed because only actively job seeking persons are counted in the unemployment percentage. Tax payers have to bail out pensions for teachers and retired village/state/county retirees. Carl McCall was considered a genius for putting so much pension money into stocks in the 1990s. Then the market crashed and New Yorkers have to make up the difference. Any one bailing out your 401k? Probably not, unless you belong to a union.
Loco80 about 14 years ago
R Vent, What you are not taking into consideration is that workers now have the freedom to leave one employer and move on. There is no loyalty on EITHER side. If management leaves you PO’d, you ditch THEM. That is a great equalizer, if you are good. They want to keep you. Of course in a union job, it doesn’t matter if you are good or not, the union becomes the “management” and you do as you are told. And make sure you don’t do too much, you’ll make the others look bad.
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
Leave an employer and move on? You’re joking right? Who’s gonna hire that person if they quit? We’re in a recession loco in case you haven’t noticed. And also how does that person leave a job that offers health care coverage for a job that doesn’t?
Maybe you haven’t noticed but job security in these United States is non-existent. Juan and Achmed can easily come here and do what you do for less. So don’t give me that nonsense about leaving your job for another. Last I checked unemployment is still above 10%.
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
It’s simple, create the ” world” you want to support your beliefs. There is no need for welfare because all of the people on welfare are “welfare queens” who have dozen of kids and drive Cadillacs. Or Equal Opportunity Programs are no longer necessary, and all they do is take jobs from qualified people and give them to unqualified people because they are a minority!
LOCO - Go to a factory, or shop with union labor and watch, you will see, people working hard, ususally very hard, and no “Union Rep” walking around telling them so slow down. It is an old myth.
If we are going to argue about things that need to be done, lets talk facts not myths.
believecommonsense about 14 years ago
Imajs, happy monday to you too.
I agree that unions and teachers are normally considered part of the Democratic base.
But my understanding is that Obama nixed the union exemption from taxes on cadilac health plans. Taxing cadillac plans was part of the Senate bill, not the house bill. After both bills passed their respective houses, and Dems met (yes, behind closed doors) to consider how to reconcile the two versions (a normal process, by the way), some House Dems proposed exempting unions if the Senate version prevailed. Obama nixed it. Exempting unions from cadillac plan taxes was never put in an official bill, it never made it out of conference committee discussions. Now, it looks like the House version of raising additional revenue will prevail; adding medicare taxes to investment income that is not now subject to any Medicare taxes. (I’m totally opposed to union exemptions, as I am to all special carve outs and sweet deals.)
Re education and teachers: Obama was tough on teacher accountability during the campaign. (And I agreed with him then and now.) Teachers unions backed him, but their leaders also expressed concern about his positions on “holding teachers accountable” and merit-based performance evaluations. His views have never been in line with teachers unions.
Today, in case you missed it, in a speech he gave on education, he got even tougher on holding teachers accountable for results. He expressed some support for the Rhode island school board that fired its teachers and staff for chronic and severe under performance. (Only 7 percent of 11th graders passed the state math test.)
So, in these two cases, he showed he isn’t a captive of this particular special interest — unions, including teachers’ unions.
zekedog55 about 14 years ago
Hey there, johndh123–yeah, besides dogs being the unconditional love ambassadors in the pet dept., I’ve found they are also accurate “character” barometers. Zeke is what we call a Hatteras Retriever–our vet guesses 5 different breeds course through his blood. Our daughter rescued him as a puppy. He was in a box (with 4 of his siblings) dropped in the middle of a busy hiway. Beyond comprehension. Happily all 5 survived. They were starved and smaller than the palm of my hand.
Your mentioning of a plumber reminded me of the joke…
The plumber hands a doctor his bill. The doc says “This is more than I charge my patients for my time!” The plumber replies “Yeah, I used to be a surgeon but just couldn’t make ends meet…”
We need more credible trade schools for our youngsters. The buzz in the business community is that more often than not our kids coming out of basic training/armed forces are better equipped for job placement than many college grads.
Please give your German Shepherd a back scratch for me!
Loco80 about 14 years ago
Ken, R.V. - actually, I work in a union job, and I was actually nominated to represent my co-workers as the shop steward. Either of you???Actually, I earned my degree in Economics, and worked in the private sector for 20+ years before I quit and took a paycut to come and work for the Dept of Public Welfare, because I know “welfare queens” (whatever that means in your evil mind) and Cadillacs do not exist. Either of you????