We laugh about Chicago having the county with the most dead voters but it’s really Gallows humor. Allowing Democrats (In Chicago) or Republicans (someplace else) to stuff the ballot box robs us voters of our voice in Democracy.
They keep telling me it’s too burdensome to expect people to establish a legitimate ID. I hear there are people out there who can’t find a birth certificate, or that it’s too hard for them to get to the courthouse to get an ID. And yet they are able to qualify and receive all sorts of government services so they have some means of getting to government offices.
If we take people at their words and accept that there is a modest group, today, who can’t establish their citizenship even though they were born citizens – Then it seems to me that it should be a shrinking minority of older voters who may be been born in less developed areas. Couldn’t we phase in the requirement for voter ID over the next 10 – 30 years.
I’m sure there would be a rare few that slipped through the cracks … but those could be handled through the court system. As much money as the Liberals spend on trying to keep illegals voting – It would be better spent on helping those few remaining that couldn’t establish their citizenship in the normal ways.
I honestly don’t want to disenfranchise anyone but I also don’t want to be disenfranchised by overzealous political machines.
There are very few actual examples of undocumented immigrants voting or of people voting more than once. However the numbers of people who have been scrubbed from registration rolls or been unable to vote because of increasingly ridiculous ID requirements number in the hundreds of thousands. This has been done almost entirely by Republicans at the state level.
@Oscar – Their are plenty of fruitcakes on both sides of the aisles – a plethora I would say.
No one (that I know of anyway) is suggesting taking away the vote from any legitimate voter. I’m just asking that people showing up at a voting booth be forced to demonstrate that they are who they say they are. I have to do that at the DMV, the County Courthouse if I want to get married, even if I get stopped for speeding. Why is it so onerous to expect someone to demonstrate they are who they say they are?
As I said – If the Democrats really think that voters are being disenfranchised then they could spend their lobbying dollars on seeking out disenfranchised voters and helping them get to a locale where they can get a picture ID. I even agree that picture IDs should be free to anyone who can prove they are a citizen. And yes there is a small minority who can no longer provide a birth certificate due to no fault of their own and the courts should address those few cases.
Democrats point to studies that show that voter fraud is non-existant or almost non-existant. And yet we see cases (the last one I remember was in Ohio or Indiana) where there is evidence that it is happening. What we don’t know is how often it happens and doesn’t get caught or reported.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to fear that my vote will be diluted by well meaning but criminal groups within a political machine that will get additional votes in any way they can.
And I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to fear that my vote will be diluted by a political party that will suppress votes for the other party in any way they can.
Have any of you “voter fraud” fans looked at the data? I have.In several states, they have investigated all kinds of voter fraud. The typical number is in single digits at best. North Carolina found a grand total of something like 28 over the past two DECADES. Whereas the reason the Virginia laws were struck down is because by some estimates tens of thousands of LEGAL VOTERS were prevented from voting.If you think tens of thousands of citizens being blocked from their vote is worth it to stop two people who might be fraudulent, you have the wrong priorities. And for that matter, you don’t read my man John Adams.w
If you Dems are too stupid to figure out how to get an ID (like millions of 15 year olds) then you really have no business deciding the future of our country.
@Christopher sheat – It isn’t feelings at all. All I had to do was go to google and type in Election Fraud and I got plenty of hits. I grabbed one of the list for you to review but there are plenty of others.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376
I’m not going on feelings alone. I’m basing my concerns on articles I read from time to time.
It is happening. We don’t know to what extent but it is happening. Asking people to present a valid ID is not an onerous hurdle for exercising one of the most important duties a citizen will carry out during the year.
@Clark Kent – Political Power is big and powerful and EXTREMELY Dangerous in the wrong hands. Mr. Obama and Mr. Reid are using their power to try to destroy American Enterprise by regulating it out of existence or taxing it out of existence.
I have no problem with asking people to present valid ID in order to vote. That’s the way we do it here in Toronto, and it makes sense to me. But what counts as valid ID? Here a driver’s license will do. I don’t have one, so I use my employer’s ID card (which is really a library card, but it has my picture on it). A utility bill with your name and address and one other piece of ID used to be okay, but I don’t know if they still take those. I walk in, I show my ID to Peggy, who lives down the street, she says, Okay, Lonecat, and I vote. If people have to go to special trouble to get special ID just for the purpose and pay extra money for it, that doesn’t make sense.
Just to remind you that it was Democrats that were doing the poll tax.And it is EVERY eligible voter that is disenfranchised by voter fraud, as is seen in Chicago.
As I said before, vote fraud is almost impossible to prove, and is completely impossible to prove after the fact. Chicago has a long history of vote fraud (Democrat), NY, OH, and other locations. And if I were you, I wouldn’t be pointing out the (Democrat owned) Diebold voting machines.
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
Slashed to bits by Dems so as they can guarantee as many illegal votes as they can!
josefw over 10 years ago
It’s the “Legal” voters rights that are being diminished!
Mephistopheles over 10 years ago
We laugh about Chicago having the county with the most dead voters but it’s really Gallows humor. Allowing Democrats (In Chicago) or Republicans (someplace else) to stuff the ballot box robs us voters of our voice in Democracy.
They keep telling me it’s too burdensome to expect people to establish a legitimate ID. I hear there are people out there who can’t find a birth certificate, or that it’s too hard for them to get to the courthouse to get an ID. And yet they are able to qualify and receive all sorts of government services so they have some means of getting to government offices.
If we take people at their words and accept that there is a modest group, today, who can’t establish their citizenship even though they were born citizens – Then it seems to me that it should be a shrinking minority of older voters who may be been born in less developed areas. Couldn’t we phase in the requirement for voter ID over the next 10 – 30 years.
I’m sure there would be a rare few that slipped through the cracks … but those could be handled through the court system. As much money as the Liberals spend on trying to keep illegals voting – It would be better spent on helping those few remaining that couldn’t establish their citizenship in the normal ways.
I honestly don’t want to disenfranchise anyone but I also don’t want to be disenfranchised by overzealous political machines.
AlnicoV over 10 years ago
There are very few actual examples of undocumented immigrants voting or of people voting more than once. However the numbers of people who have been scrubbed from registration rolls or been unable to vote because of increasingly ridiculous ID requirements number in the hundreds of thousands. This has been done almost entirely by Republicans at the state level.
Mephistopheles over 10 years ago
@Oscar – Their are plenty of fruitcakes on both sides of the aisles – a plethora I would say.
No one (that I know of anyway) is suggesting taking away the vote from any legitimate voter. I’m just asking that people showing up at a voting booth be forced to demonstrate that they are who they say they are. I have to do that at the DMV, the County Courthouse if I want to get married, even if I get stopped for speeding. Why is it so onerous to expect someone to demonstrate they are who they say they are?
As I said – If the Democrats really think that voters are being disenfranchised then they could spend their lobbying dollars on seeking out disenfranchised voters and helping them get to a locale where they can get a picture ID. I even agree that picture IDs should be free to anyone who can prove they are a citizen. And yes there is a small minority who can no longer provide a birth certificate due to no fault of their own and the courts should address those few cases.
Democrats point to studies that show that voter fraud is non-existant or almost non-existant. And yet we see cases (the last one I remember was in Ohio or Indiana) where there is evidence that it is happening. What we don’t know is how often it happens and doesn’t get caught or reported.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to fear that my vote will be diluted by well meaning but criminal groups within a political machine that will get additional votes in any way they can.
lonecat over 10 years ago
And I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to fear that my vote will be diluted by a political party that will suppress votes for the other party in any way they can.
Motivemagus over 10 years ago
Have any of you “voter fraud” fans looked at the data? I have.In several states, they have investigated all kinds of voter fraud. The typical number is in single digits at best. North Carolina found a grand total of something like 28 over the past two DECADES. Whereas the reason the Virginia laws were struck down is because by some estimates tens of thousands of LEGAL VOTERS were prevented from voting.If you think tens of thousands of citizens being blocked from their vote is worth it to stop two people who might be fraudulent, you have the wrong priorities. And for that matter, you don’t read my man John Adams.w
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
If you Dems are too stupid to figure out how to get an ID (like millions of 15 year olds) then you really have no business deciding the future of our country.
Mephistopheles over 10 years ago
@Christopher sheat – It isn’t feelings at all. All I had to do was go to google and type in Election Fraud and I got plenty of hits. I grabbed one of the list for you to review but there are plenty of others.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376
I’m not going on feelings alone. I’m basing my concerns on articles I read from time to time.
It is happening. We don’t know to what extent but it is happening. Asking people to present a valid ID is not an onerous hurdle for exercising one of the most important duties a citizen will carry out during the year.
Mephistopheles over 10 years ago
@Clark Kent – Political Power is big and powerful and EXTREMELY Dangerous in the wrong hands. Mr. Obama and Mr. Reid are using their power to try to destroy American Enterprise by regulating it out of existence or taxing it out of existence.
lonecat over 10 years ago
I have no problem with asking people to present valid ID in order to vote. That’s the way we do it here in Toronto, and it makes sense to me. But what counts as valid ID? Here a driver’s license will do. I don’t have one, so I use my employer’s ID card (which is really a library card, but it has my picture on it). A utility bill with your name and address and one other piece of ID used to be okay, but I don’t know if they still take those. I walk in, I show my ID to Peggy, who lives down the street, she says, Okay, Lonecat, and I vote. If people have to go to special trouble to get special ID just for the purpose and pay extra money for it, that doesn’t make sense.
ARodney over 10 years ago
There is not a measurable voter fraud problem in any state. There are serious, verifiable voter suppression problems in Red states.
rossevrymn over 10 years ago
It’s like Selma all over again.
wndrmdgt over 10 years ago
Just to remind you that it was Democrats that were doing the poll tax.And it is EVERY eligible voter that is disenfranchised by voter fraud, as is seen in Chicago.
wndrmdgt over 10 years ago
As I said before, vote fraud is almost impossible to prove, and is completely impossible to prove after the fact. Chicago has a long history of vote fraud (Democrat), NY, OH, and other locations. And if I were you, I wouldn’t be pointing out the (Democrat owned) Diebold voting machines.