Chuck Asay by Chuck Asay

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4uk4ata said, 3 months ago

Actually, someone should notify Mr. Asay that under the current proposal it will be doctors who will be doing the counceling. In fact, they sometimes do it now anyway (which imo is actually commendable of them - it is a hard moment for anyone to decide); the proposal is that they are compensated for their time. That is about as much deciding who lives or dies as informing you how much miles per gallon your car can go forces you to buy one.

Talking poings are all good and well - when they are based on facts. If they are not, they lean towards becoming propaganda.
wolfhoundblues1 said, 3 months ago

As long as congress accepts the same healthcare package they want us to take.
Corosive Frog said, 3 months ago

End of life counselling is not about killing healthy folks, counselling people in terminal stage on how they want to spend their last days. I have seen two cases like that in my immediate family.

That’s just lies, Asay
Kingoswald said, 3 months ago

Are you saying that this is in the bill, ANandy? Reference please … and not Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck …
algurka said, 3 months ago

And who’s going to tell the cartoonists when it’s time to put down their pens and brushes, that they’ve lost their sense of humor, their relevancy, their bite?
tpenna said, 3 months ago

ANandy’s got nothing except bitterness and dreams of future disaster. And Asay’s got nothing but yesterday’s debunked lies. Nothing new here.
cjr53 said, 3 months ago

And what’s more, there isn’t even a bill at this time. 5, 6 maybe 7 ideas, but no bill.

This is just the republican garbage machine talking. Making up all kinds of scary junk. I’m so tired of the lies and scare tactics.
HOWGOZIT said, 3 months ago

cj–then how can they hold town hall meetings with so many “ideas” floating around. Even Rep Jackson-Lee had to take a phone call during a question to see how the White House wanted her to respond as she knew nothing about any of the healthcare ideas.
GNWachs said, 3 months ago

The idea of counseling was a very good one. It was not euthanasia. Everyone should actually go through the experience. Unfortunately it was politicized. I read yesterday that that proposal has been tabled and is off the board. Too bad.
4uk4ata said, 3 months ago

@GNWachs - out of pure curiosity, do you know of any current insurance plans that cover such consultation?
ezdeb said, 3 months ago

gnw, ANandy, etc, go see Tony Auth’s cartoon for today. That will give you your new talking point, K?
tizzo said, 3 months ago

Unfortunately it is not lies, just exaggeration and speculation. No, the House bill does not set up “death panels” to determine who gets life-extending care and who does not. It merely dictates to whom the government must extend coverage, the amount that can be spent in total on that coverage, and is completely silent on how to go about making the two balance out.

A few things are undeniable:

The government will be required to extend coverage to millions of people who do not now have it.
They will not be allowed to spend as much money as it would cost to simply bring those people up to the same level of care the rest of us get, even if Obama’s no deficit increase pledge is abandoned and the current $1T increase is maintained.

It is technically true that there are ways other than the inflammatorily -named “death panels” to balance the supply/demand equation in the absence of market forces. For example, all medical professionals could be impressed into service, basically arrested and made servants of the state. It’s completely consistent with the assertion by many on the pro-Obamacare side, including Obama himself, that health care is a “right”. It is not permissible for anyone to charge someone else for something that is a right. The equivalent would be someone putting a gun to your head and charging you a fee not to pull the trigger.

However, I think such a measure might be unpopular. It turns out that too many people either like their doctors and other health care providers, or are themselves providers.

That doesn’t leave many other tweaks that can be used to close the gap. Yes, you can limit payments to providers like Medicare does, but when there’s no more private market onto which they can defer the costs, and without any mechanism to force them to keep practicing, you’re going to learn that most health care professionals will be unable to remain in the profession when they not only don’t profit, but can’t even break even. All you end up doing is limiting supply even more.

Yes, I’m being tongue-in-cheek, but only partially. The bottom line is that the president is promising to do what can’t be done, at least not without tradeoffs, such as the death panels of the alternatives I’ve described, that are clearly unacceptable. By far the most likely scenario is that they just won’t do it. They will run at huge deficits and even then will limit access, though probably just to non-critical care.

As it turns out, there are many areas for reform on which everyone agrees, and the GOP has put forth bills on many of them. But much like the energy debate in the early 2000s, democrats are voting against legislation (or in this case blocking it from even being considered) that does things of which they publicly insist thy are in favor. Portability is a good example, and lack of portability right now is the direct fault of the federal government’s tax treatment of health care benefits. If you take your employer’s health care, you don’t pay taxes on it. If you instead take money from your employer and buy health care on the private market, you are taxed. The best way to deal with this would be to do what McCain suggested in the campaign, which despite Obama’s repeated and willful mischaracterization of the idea did nothing more than convert the tax deduction, which again is only available to those who get their insurance from their employer, to a credit, which would be available to everyone, including those who get insurance from work. Those with employer-based insurance would see slightly more taken from their paychecks, but would get it all back when they file their tax returns.

The one thing that’s most clear about health care is that none of the problems in the existing system are in any way related to a LACK of government involvement.
wbr said, 3 months ago

yes c frog but we ALL are in terminal stage
ezdeb said, 3 months ago

tizzo, back up this, please. “But much like the energy debate in the early 2000s, democrats are voting against legislation (or in this case blocking it from even being considered) that does things of which they publicly insist thy are in favor. ”

This Republican whine that they are shut out of the process is so stupid it has to be called out. Check out Senator Grassley!
DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

Edgar Bumpers said: “Chuck Asay sifts the events of the day through his biblical worldview and tries to persuade readers to see things his way.”

DrCanuck responds: Apparently, the Biblical world view involves repeating the biggest lie you can find.
Corosive Frog said, 3 months ago

wbr, maybe in your definition of “terminal”, but not in what is usually used by doctors.
dtroutma said, 3 months ago

Section 1233 specifically mentions hospice and end of life EXTENSION. The only “death panel” is one in the golden parachutes of private insurance company CEOs.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

CF, the medical use of “terminal”:

Upon being told he’s terminal,

Patient: “How long do I have, doc?”
Doctor: “Ten.”
Patient: “Ten what? Months? Weeks?”
Doctor: “…nine….eight….seven…”

(Old joke, but a favorite for me.)
Tigger said, 3 months ago

This is Pure BS
Machado said, 3 months ago

Yeap, you lived long enough, besides is time for the Government to collect your “Death tax”…..
$iamafractal$

iamafractal said, 3 months ago

the old lady’s label should have been “insurance companies” because then the whole thing would actually be true.

Insurance companies have had death panels for years, deciding who they will discontinue coverage for, and therefore kill, each day, to the tune of 11,000 victims daily.

I even made a t-shirt http://zazzle.com/kliman* (with the asterisk) click for latest designs.
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

What is being discussed here in a roundabout manner is the fact that everyone here is negotiating how much they’ll have to pay to get someone else to cover their medical bills. Isn’t it about time to say enough is enough? How much crazier can life get? Is Obama’s plan going to make health care cheaper or improve it? Why do we let them waste our time and money while they feather their beds? I’m sick of communicating with all you suckers. You deserve what you’re going to get from Obama, Frank, Pelosi, and Reid.
Kylop said, 3 months ago

Ahh, Chuck Asay celebrating the right to speak freely. Nothing illegal about spreading a lie when its all in fun. Similar to the conservative worship of greed and profit, as sifted through a biblical world view, trying to convince readers to see it his way. Chuck believes that ideas, HIS ideas, not politicians rule the world.
sclark55 said, 3 months ago

One word:
Oregon
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12857
DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

Kylop said: “Nothing illegal about spreading a lie when its all in fun.”

DrCanuck responds: Nothing illegal, completely immoral.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

Puppy, explain how remaining with our present system is better.

‘Round here, people without insurance just go to their nearest emergency room, where they know the hospital is required to treat them. But they don’t have to pay for it.

Who does?

And why do you think this method is better than what’s being offered?
dtroutma said, 3 months ago

55

I live in Oregon, and the article is as near an outright lie as can exist. Consider the source, and the millions spent by that source in an attempt to block the “death with dignity” act that has rarely been used. The Oregon Health Plan, that covers people who CAN’T AFFORD PRIVATE INSURANCE RATES, is also a pretty good plan that does limit “experimental procedures”, just like private companies do.

Just like Asay, no lie is too big to spread. Another Roman Catholic who ran Germany a while said the same thing.
meowdam said, 3 months ago

Single payer system the only answer.
Anybody ever heard of hospice or Palliative Care units ?
we are all going to Die and I for one am glad there are end of life care services available and yes most insurance companies cover this already.
Volunteer at a hospice for a few months or shut up .
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

PoleDervish, satisfactorily explain where Obama’s 1000+ page bill helps America’s healthcare industry, please.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

Puppy, I have no idea what you mean by “PoleDervish”. Must be a local expression.

Second, could you do me the courtesy of answering the questions I asked you before demanding others answer yours?

These forums work much better with a give-and-take two way flow.

You’re acting like ANandy. Always demanding others provide evidence, but running away when asked to do the same. And I’m sure that’s not the impression you wish to convey to others.
ezdeb said, 3 months ago

Poledervish? Gees, Pup. It’s getting painful to look at your posts. One must ask. What do you mean by the “healthcare industry” Obama’s not helping. Do you mean insurance companies? Don’t worry; they can still compete. It’s still a private insurance based plan, remember? Do you mean the pharmaceutical companies? That’s a healthcare industry too, but I don’t see them in trouble, do you?

Who do you mean?
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

ezdeb, I didn’t know the controversy was over the healthy aspects of healthcare in America. I thought it was about the suffering patients? Patients without health care access or access to substandard care only? And how Obama’s plan will help them/us? Oh, I see! You know where the money for Obama’s Plan would be coming from! Touche! This sounds like the assault against the tobacco-industry. (This is how Libs fund their party, campaigns, and organizations, after all).

Anthony which questions haven’t I answered? I’m only a free member with limited access to the site - maybe they got away? Or are you still asking whether John Adams knew about UZIs?
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

C’mon, Puppy, all you had to do was just scroll up six messages on this page you managed to get on, where you’d see:
—————————————-
Puppy, explain how remaining with our present system is better.

‘Round here, people without insurance just go to their nearest emergency room, where they know the hospital is required to treat them. But they don’t have to pay for it.

Who does?

And why do you think this method is better than what’s being offered?
—————————————-

Perhaps if you actually tried to answer these questions, then you’d find the answers to your own questions, and not make comments from ignorance like “Touche!”.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago
Puppy, I hope you appreciate the advantage you have over me in these discussions. Contrast the options we have when confronted with questions from the other:

My options: I answer every question you ask.

Your options:
1. You ignore the questions completely.
2. You abandon the thread.
3. You tell me you’re female, and that therefore I’m “bullying” you.
4. You threaten to, and actually do, flag my posts for “harassing” you in my attempts to get you to answer my questions as I answer yours.
Is this what Jesus would do, Puppy?
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

ANTHONY, You think puppy is flagging you ? Cause every day they take 4 or 5 of mine down. Some were of me and striper and some of striper’s are gone. Puppy was mad when they took down and kicked off his/her friend. Puppy mite do some bad things, but I dont think he would do that. But it’s best to ask him, and make him swear to Jesus. I think he would be unhappy if he didn’t have us to bug.
Like the other day, he was all over me about being a hippie and a peace nut and so on, only I didn’t see it until a day 1/2 later. He likes to fight with us, but only if he thinks he’s winning. I’m sure he thinks he does (win), But who knows, I have a few others I can think of, who cant stand-up and could justify there actions, for the good of all. One is really new. Those Christens are good at having no tolerants. And republicans would like to shut up every Dem. But I dont get mad I just figure I must have won what ever they were mad about. Such a sad way to lose an argument, having to dispose of the evidents. LOL.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

She told me she did. I have no way of knowing for sure.

She said I shouldn’t have been disagreeing with her because I should have known that’s she’s female, and therefore I was bullying and harassing her, so she flagged them based on that.

Regarding the deleted posts, perhaps they deleted their own. I’ve never noticed any of my posts vanishing, but if I wrote some of the stuff Striper does, I’d delete it.
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

Well I kind of expected that might happen. I was asking him if he were going to go to MLK rally with the black people he saved. I asked him if he were a Negro lover now. Anyway I kinda though that might happen. but like today now I have 19 post again, maybe the thing ain’t working right, reason I think they have been taking them down is, I might post 4 or 5 post before I notice I have 19 post, which would mean I must have started with less.
BACK to puppy, In the beginning HE listed himself as a 47 year MALE. I never thought he sounded like a 47 year old MALE, The happy pants, and the silly little games, But I thought, oh well if that who you want to be, I’ll go for it. But I think you have ever right to TAKE HER AT HER WORD.
So PUPPY, you did it again, LIE, LIE, LIE ! I dont understand someone who calls them self a Christen can play those games and lie like that. Guess it’s time to quit talking to him, her, it.
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

Pin-point what you think is wrong with current medicine and healthcare and I might be able to answer you, Anthony. Like the demagogue Obama, you Libs just say “healthcare” is defective in the U.S., and hope no one bothers to ask you what you are doing. At the ame time +75% are happy with their healthcare. Why should I let the Obama regime toy with the American Health System without any debate?
I de-flagged Anthony’s post when I seen that gocomics wouldn’t do anything. Also, I had second thoughts. Because I know for certain that there are wierdos who read these posts, I am not giving out anymore personal information than I have. I am not even going to correct mistakes you have made about me.

Now, back to the “Toon. Speed it up, gramps : I like my soylent green with a snap!
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

Any “mistakes” are truly your own. Your behavior is classic for a Christian. So quote me a quoth so we can marvel at your righteous justifications,… Fraud.

I believe you’re not a Christian, you only play one on Gocomics.
What Christian would claim you ?
Which Jesus would ?
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

Sorry, Puppy. I figured it was common knowledge.

Here’s a couple of things to get you started.

Over 40 million uninsured, which doesn’t count underinsured. Many of these get their medical care from emergency rooms, which is the most expensive way, paid for by others. Not to mention diverting emergency care from those who really need it.
You know what? I really am not inclined to spend all this time typing, given most of it will be ignored.

Go here: http://tinyurl.com/rysqgy for a list of sites that will educate you. For instance, this one: http://tinyurl.com/2lbste completely refutes your claim that “+75% are happy with their healthcare”:

“Of all the countries surveyed – including the supposedly dystopic U.K. and Canada – Americans are the least likely to report relative satisfaction, and the most likely to call for a fundamental rebuilding. Only 16 percent of us are happy. In Canada and the U.K., that number is 26 percent. In the Netherlands, it’s 42 percent. Meanwhile, 34 percent of Americas want to completely rebuild. Only 12 percent of Canadians say the same, and only 15 percent of U.K. residents want a new system. So paying more than twice as much as anyone else, we have the lowest satisfaction with our health care system. Lower than the countries with waiting lines. Lower than Germany, and Australia, and New Zealand.”
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

75% of what people, you never say. 75% of Mexicans of Mexico ? No link, just krap you got off fox news
Glen beck makes your point ” We have the best health care”. 3 3/4 min.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

Exactly, CrankyPants, go to Fox and argue with their findings.
Meanwhile, your traveling salesman is running out of pitches to throw at Americans.
Thankfully, what kind of Christian I am is not up to you. Why do you ask? Which one of your sacred cows have I slaughtered?
Anthony, I feel like the sensei who is pleased with his “grasshopper”. You are learning, sir. If I check your links will I be as underwhelmed by your sources as Winky is with mine? The Master’s time is precious…
Also the 40million without healthinsurance is debatable ; as well as how to include/compel these individuals to get health insurance. I don’t know about you but I sure don’t want Perfesser Obama telling me and my doctor what we need.
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

You declare yourself a Christian, but then have no Idea what it means ? Talk about burning in Hell !
What Church do you go to, Jessie’s house of Liar’s ?
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

Puppy: “I sure don’t want Perfesser Obama telling me and my doctor what we need.”

That’s just more proof you’re getting all your news from far-right-wing-fringe sources, as there is NOTHING being considered that would allow Obama to tell you and your doctor what you need.

Puppy, since it probably wasn’t reported on Fox News, are you aware that Republican Senator Jim DeMint said, “‘If you’re able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him!”

THAT’S why you’ve been told lies like Obama will come between you and your doctor, or Palin’s lie about death panels. The Republicans using YOU, Puppy, to try to get back in power, after they were soundly voted out of both the White House and Congress for screwing up the country so badly.

The Republicans do NOT care about your health care. They only care about getting back in power, and to do that they’re lying through their teeth, and you’re falling for every word of it.

And your forced ignorance is not impressive in the least. It just reveals why the Republicans are able to manipulate you so easily.
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

Anthony, I don’t care what the Republicans want, I care about this unprecedented step that a lot of out-of-touch elite professional confidence-men are about to force this nation to take. They don’t have the right, nor the mandate. Your demagogue-Flunky Perfesser can get busy running the country instead of setting up his cronies for the good-life.

Winky, you made me laugh; even though you didn’t mean to!
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

Puppy, let’s get down to basics.

I asked you, “explain how remaining with our present system is better.”

You, as so often you do, COMPLETELY IGNORED THE QUESTION.

ANandy would be proud of you: Good Sheep.

Puppy, until you can answer this question, don’t waste my time. And proudly telling me that you love to wallow in ignorance by refusing to look at the links I looked up for you is NOT an answer. Got it?
goslim said, 3 months ago

hey pup-

when you wrote, “setting up his cronies for the good life” didja mean something like what the ceos of the major insurance and pharma companies now enjoy at the expense of those they refuse to cover?

as for all the talk about how we have such a superior health care system in the USA, go watch Glen Beck talking out of both sides of his mouth on this one:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/240983/thu-august-13-2009-rachel-mcadams

har har

says alot about the sincerity of Beck and others when they tearfully defend their dearly held ‘beliefs’
senorbullwinkle said, 3 months ago

pooey pants, You said you were a 46 year old male, not 47, I stand corrected.
One can do, so much more, chasing people away from Hay-Seuss, By lying, then any of us.
The reason why I dont like religion, is the people. I find them to be greedy little liars who like to pretend to love the lord. Some know all the words in the book and think thats all it takes to save their butt from the holy fires of hell. But would they follow the words of Jesus, knowing there would be NO reward for it ? I think not. I think if that were the case, there would be only a handful left. The peace nut’s !
I think evangelist are the most vile. Seems to me they’re damaged goods, they’ve replaced their conscious with a book. One that tells them, no matter what they do, they are forgiven. You can even be forgiven for abortion, the biggest sin of religion. I get suspicious when I hear them talk about love or sex, seems to me their just covering up what they really feel, HATE and LUST.
The real reason to go to Church is to hone up ones ability to lie. They all go in and talk about Haysuess, and tell how much they have done for each other.” I’ve done THIS for Haysuess and Haysuess has done THIS for me” Then they go home thinking how great they looked, and sounded, and how well they hid their Real self from being discovered. A flock of Phonies, the Devil would delight in ! Oh, and Don’t, and I mean Never, Forget the Money ! Because that’s how the pecking order works. Not the most devoted, true, or loyal, the most money, and the best dressed. Most people have their ” Sunday Best ” Devoted to ” looookin Gooood ” !
Well I could never explain in words my disdain for the Classic Christian who is Self righteous and a Grandiose liar.
Now you can go back and listen to your show tunes, happy pants.
NoFearPup said, 3 months ago

goslim, when I wrote, “setting up his cronies for the good life”, the main thing in my mind is that I’m not one of his cronies. I’m not against healthcare reform, I’m against a bunch of Chicago-flunkies running it. I’m against healthcare reform being used as a pretext to hand out Party Rewards and sweetheart deals and Influence. If you don’t realize that that is what is going on here, you are the kind of citizen the Pelosi’s and Obama’s love.
Anthony 2816 said, 3 months ago

So you’re for health care reform, as long as the government isn’t the one to do it.

Got it.

We can just wait for the insurance companies to do it. I’m sure they’re trustworthy, given their past record.

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About Chuck Asay

Chuck Asay sifts the events of the day through his biblical worldview and tries to persuade readers to see things his way...that rights are given by a higher authority than the governments of men, that mankind is not the ultimate arbiter of truth and that our Constitutional Republic is worth protecting. Chuck believes ideas, not politicians rule the world. He tries to protect ideas which he thinks are good and attacks ideas he thinks bring harm.

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