Uh, oh, Signe has lit the match for the torch bearers.
But some of us Christians are supportive of Rev. Schaefer. In our denomination, we’re authorized to officiate at same-sex marriages.
Not True. Matt: 19:4-6 Jesus declares what is correct. Everything else is a perversion of it. Just like we pervert everything God has made and designed. I include myself in that group as not one of us is better than another in this regard.
What gets disturbing though is that people join a group, agree to abide by their rules, then break them and cry “unjust!” when they are punished. Just sad really, if you don’t like their beliefs go somewhere else. There are plenty of others groups that I am sure will agree with you.
If you agree to their rules, then you agreed to them including any punishment if you break them, don’t whine like a baby when they come back to punish you for breaking the rules that you agreed to abide by. We shouldn’t feel sorry for them.
What also is disturbing is how the majority of people will call shame on the organization for practicing their beliefs! Whether you agree with them or not, they have the right to live and abide by their own religious beliefs. If you don’t like them, find another religion. There are plenty out there.
@masterskrain – your statement is just horribly misleading, and God will not be mocked.
This minister performed an act of love. To be excommunicated for such an act speaks more to the Methodists’ lack of compassion and their failure to understand the meaning of the words of Jesus Christ, who preached love and tolerance.
“That which you do unto the least of my brethren, you do unto me.” – Matthew 25:40
“I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” – Mahatma Gandhi
Hallelujah, Signe! However, Rev. Schaefer (who lives in my current home of Lebanon County, PA) was only suspended for 30 days.
@Joadtom – nice. Good logic.
Is this the same god who wanted his chosen people to kill an other tribe of people including little boys, but keep the virgin girls as war booty? (Numbers 31) Yeah he seems like a level headed dude, lets follow his guidelines!!!
Immaculate Conception DOES NOT refer to Jesus, it refers to Mary, Mary is the Immaculate Conception because she was conceived without the stain of Original Sin, so she would be worthy of carrying the Son of God.
Hallelujah, Amen. And that IS the Biblical truth.
@padget. Immaculate conception refers to when Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb by the Spirit. Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. Sin is perpetuated through procreation. Nothing special about her parents either. Where do you get that the immaculate conception was about Mary?
@2011WorldChamps. Numbers 31 says no such thing. I think you need to read it before you misinform others about it. The only truth to your statement was God’s judgment on the Midianite men (not children or women) for what they had done to the Israelites (Moses was to avenge the people of Israel). God’s instrument for that judgment was Israel (who are his chosen people. God has the right to judge, His world, His rules.
@Adrian Snare, who is blind? The person who uses logic and facts? Or the person who makes generalizations and says “I know” and “if I recall” in reference to the same thing?
@Newenglandah, the passage I referred to (Matt. 19:4-6) is specific not general. It is marriage as defined by God. If it isn’t as God defines it, then it is not marriage. In that passage Jesus is quoting from Genesis (The book of beginnings), where He (God/Jesus) originally defined marriage in the very beginning (Gen 2:24). Only male and female can be joined together before God as one flesh.
@Newenglandah, also I am not denouncing anyone gay or otherwise. I can only define marriage as God has revealed it. It is not complicated, it is simple, and It is his definition not mine. We are all one fallen human race, not one of us is better than any other. For me to denounce someone would be to say that I am better, and I am definitely not. All of us fall short of God’s holy standard. (Romans 5:23) Straight, Gay or otherwise. Even those we consider the best of us, God calls their works “filthy rags”. Two men/women fall in love, it happens. I personally think people make too much of it, we lose focus. We get so caught up in making others look bad, we forget how bad we look ourselves. Let’s focus less on the sinners and the sinning and more on the God of our forgiveness and redemption. He will take care of this huge mess. People need to know the truth. God loves you no matter who you are or what you have done, and because of that He sent his Son, to pay the penalty for our wrong doings. We broke the law, He made it right.
No, the big denounces was that fascist Paul. Christ taught love, peace, and godliness. Then Paul came in and gave Christians cover for bigotry and sanctimony.
Personally I’m torn. Legally I’m absolutely in favor of a gay marriage and give them all the legal rights/protections and obligations. Make it legal everywhere (hopefully soon in Florida).He violated the rules of his church and that is a totally different matter.
@CharlieTuba, I am reading it in context. I am afraid It is you who are reading it out of context. You are reading it in relation to a small number of verses 1-12, or perhaps you are just reading the subheading that is in your bible. Jesus used a direct quote to answer a question about divorce, because God’s definition of marriage answers the question. He takes them back to when He(God/Jesus) defined marriage (Genesis 2:24). In this book God gave the definition of marriage before we invented divorce. Reading in context here means Genesis and Matthew, not just Matthew 19:1-12. God’s definition of something of something tells us everything about what it is and what it is not. It is not complicated it is simple.
@echoraven. Amen. Despite that people may disagree on gay marriage. The real issue is not about gay marriage. The real issue is about keeping your word. As a priest in the United Methodist Church you agree to certain beliefs and practices. You have to if you want to be a United Methodist priest. (I am neither a Methodist nor a priest). However God said we should be people where “our yes means yes and our no means no” (2 Cor 2:17). He said yes and agreed to abide by that. So if you break them you get punished! You don’t like that the church denounces gay marriage. Fine, find one that does, there are plenty. But don’t come down on the United Methodist Church for holding their priests accountable for keeping their word. Everyone wants to keep making this about gay marriage (likely because it is a very hot and divisive topic), but it is not the issue here. This editorial comic is a farce, because it is misdirecting people to a heated and highly debated topic and ignoring the real issue.
Opposition to same sex marriage is just wrong.
if 2 guys or girls want to live together that is their choice // but why do i have to subsize it?//the 1st time bho decided not to support doma was when a supporter died and her girl friend want spousal exemption and got it costing the treasury almost $6 million
Those who cite the Bible in their opposition to gay marriage usually cite two sections: Leviticus and Paul.Levites were the priests of the Jews, who did not believe Jesus was the promised “Savior.” Paul, who never met Jesus, expanded on his teachings to fit his own philosophy.That means the opponents are either “Levites” or “Paulists”, not “Christians.”The scholar Hillel who, I am told, was alive at the time of Jesus, was asked the meaning of scripture. His reply was, “Love God. Do good. All else is commentary.”That sounds a great deal like, “Love God above all else, and love thy neighbor as thyself.” I wonder if Jesus studied under Hillel?
^“Paul and Jesus”- and interesting book that explains a lot, so does “Zealot”.
It is easy to see God’s intent. He created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. The old testament called for the stoning of homosexuals. Jesus did not do away with Gods view of homosexuals.Yeah, yeah… no lobster for you, it’s against the Bible. Multiple wives & concubines are common in the Old Testament, so I guess those are ok?
Divorce lawyers love gay marriage. It will guarantee the lawyers kids go to college.I believe you have supported divorce lawyers generously yourself, right?
@Newenglandah, Ed Popka – Not difficult, you use logical mental process. By studying what something is, you learn what it is not. You don’t need to be told all the things it is not. For instance you are confused everytime you go out to a parking lot and attempt to find your care? Why not, because you know your car, you know it is a truck, SUV, hybrid, color, wheel rims etc… When you walk out even if you don’t remember where you parked you can find it. By defining what marriage is, you know what it is not. Simple.
@2011worldchamps – Nice, how old are you? Since you didn’t give a reference and I don’t know the bible verbatim, and you obviously hold up that one verse as a reason to not believe in God, I guess I do apologize for misinterpreting your vague reference. I was reading verse 9 and thought that was the verse you meant. They are both similar, but not the same. So to answer your earlier question, yes that is the God I believe in. And no, I don’t have a good answer for you on that. If I understood everything about Him and his reasoning and logic He would be much of a God. But I am sure that will be one of the many questions I have when I see Him. I guess you “got” me on that one. So I guess you are totally justified in not believing in God despite all the evidence. Those last 2 sentences are sarcastic in case you couldn’t tell.
@antiquetracman – No but Jesus did do away with stoning, “He who is without sin cast the first stone”.
@masterskrain – God hates anything that is not Holy, which includes all of us. Straight, homosexuals or otherwise. Like I said before, what I don’t like is how people go off the deep end about it (meaning christians). None of us meet God’s standard, no me not antiquetracman, no human bieng ever lived or will live with one exception. Jesus. No matter what the American Academy of Pediatrics thinks is a “probable” reason. Lying is never right, stealing never right, cheating on your wife whether physically or mentally, eating too much, gossiping, and the list goes on and on.
@padget – Wouldn’t matter if I was. I don’t follow mans ideas, which is what that is. I follow what God has revealed to us in His Word, otherwise we will screw it up. Like believing the immaculate conception is referring to Mary, even though Matthew 1:18 clearly states it was about the child, “before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.”
@ parker misses Sr.Bullwinkle and Mr.Humphries – Genesis and creation is not a parable. If God wanted a parable don’t you think it would have been vague. “And evening and morning” obviosly refers to literal 24 hour day. That same phrase used numerous times throught the books that Moses wrote always refer to a 24 hour period. It is a lie to suddenly, for this specific situation, take it out of context because you do not want to believe that God created the earth in 6 days. He did, and He told us so.
Uncle Joe Again, you are complicating something that is extremly simple. You want to make all these exceptions for what is not said. Jesus took them back to the God’s definition for His creation. Then he helped them to understand their own evil intentions, that man invented divorce, he clearly states that it was Moses who allowed divorce and not God. And please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said anything about passing laws for or against anything. I simply stated it is God’s definition of marriage. That is His design as the Creator. The author of this comic is incorrect and misleading. We can say anything is OK or not OK by our laws, but in the end they are not the ones that count.
dear dumb uncle joe the reason i am willing to invest in a man women marriage is chance they will have a kid who will become a dr or auto mech or someone that supplies a service that i need // true it does not all come out but not all investments do
@Uncle Joe. Thanks you for being calm and patient as well. I know this whole area causes a lot of emotions in people. As to your question of divorce, the Pharisee’s were specifically asking about men divorcing women, as women could not divorce a husband as you pointed out. However notice Jesus doesn’t give a yes or no answer, even though that is the way they phrased the question. Instead he points them to God’s design for marriage in Genesis. He is giving them the principle. He is keeping it simple, they are making it complicated. The principle is simple, God hates divorce it does not measure up to His Holy standard. Men divorcing women or women divorcing men it doesn’t make a difference. When they persist in attempting to complicate it and asking why Moses allowed it, Jesus states because of their hard hearts then adds this.. “but from the beginning it was not so.” He points directly at the matter that was really troubling them, which was that they wanted to divorce their wives for whatever reason. But God is Holy and always keeps his covenants, and expects the same of us. So yes I do take it literally, but it does not imply that women cannot divorce for the same reason. Jesus was applying the truth of God’s design for marriage to them directly. This was hard for them to hear. As proof look at verse 10 which states the disciples reaction, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” They didn’t want to hear that, even the disciples. Those same principles apply to all of us. Although Jesus addressed men in this passage it is logical to deduce the same standard for women, as it based on the design of marriage, its covenant, and its mystery (one flesh). So as Jesus did to the Pharisee’s when people ask these questions, I go back to God’s design and principles for that thing. In this case Gen 2:24.
@Uncle Joe. You are right about how people will get a megaphone to talk about same sex marriage, but whisper about divorce. In fact it is almost as if it has become acceptable to most christians. Which is sad. God sets the standard, not one of us is better than another, we all fall short of his Holy standard. My parents were divorced, my father twice. I believe people do not take God’s Word as literally as I do because they don’t want moral accountability. However that is a slippery slope. When we take parts out we become the one’s who determine truth and moral rightness. How would you like for a murderer to determine whether murder was right or wrong? No one wants to be told they are wrong, that they have broken God’s law and will be held accountable. It simply is not easy to hear. Nonetheless it is the truth, and with truth is wonderful mercy and grace. We get too caught up in self justification, rather than understanding the One who is the standard for right and wrong. And then living in the peace and joy His kingdom brings we we are obedient.
@masterskrain – I am sorry that you are hurt by my words. As is obvious in your reply that you result to such baseness as implying I am crazy and that I am on drugs. I am a very logical and reasonable person. I believe in God because when you examine the evidence there is no other logical conclusion On top of that I have seen him working, everyday. Changing people, doing things that only He could do. The more I get to know Him the more I love Him.
It is not easy to have a finger pointed in your face that you are wrong. I have it done to me all the time and it has never gotten any easier. I often just want to scream, give up, turn my back on God and do things my way. But then God pours out his mercy and grace and forgiveness and keeps me going.
I am no better than anyone. The standard is set, and homosexuality is but one of many ways we all break God’s law. Just admit, the only real reason you don’t want to believe in God is because then you will be accountable for your actions. It means that what you are doing is wrong (like the rest of us), but you want to do it anyway. We all are that way. So we seek to justify ourselves, but we are still wrong. We all violate His law, none of us are Holy not one. But God pours out forgiveness and grace to those who ask for it.