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  1. over 8 years ago on Endtown

    Understatement of the apocalypse.

  2. over 8 years ago on Endtown

    Still not a fan of withholding the crucial part of Holly’s backstory that’s really driving her out-of-character behavior.

    Hurts the drama if we can’t appreciate their different perspectives. It’s a good turn of events for the story, but it would be so much better if we, the viewers just knew what it was that drove Holly nuts.

  3. over 8 years ago on [Deleted]

    In short, we could always assume and guess the connection was there, but we could also have guessed that she was doing this because she wanted to get captured and made into a plasticized brain so she could FORGET the baby she lost and all the other pain and misery she experienced since the end of the world.

    That was actually my running theory based on one of her only conversations with Clive before getting swept up in the “Unity” debacle and Clive went silent. And there were no lack of other theories floating around regarding her out-of-character behavior.

    Like I said before though, mystery is great unless the mystery is why one of your main characters is acting so far out of character.

    Leave the mystery to the plot and the character’s motivation clear.

  4. over 8 years ago on [Deleted]

    I think this stems back to the way in which the information was timed and released. This is an issue with character development, and the fact that until this moment we’ve been given precious little to empathize and understand with her situation, so her behavior comes off as irritating and annoying instead of tragic.

    There is a balance to be struck in characterization of course. You don’t want to be obvious, but you also don’t want to leave something critical out, and I think there just wasn’t enough for people to latch onto in order to get that sort of empathy, and that’s why I think we’re seeing a number of viewers being ‘okay’ with slapping her. The same as if we see a character in any film or TV show that starts acting in inexplicably bizarre and dangerous ways to those around them, especially if its towards other characters that we do feel sufficient empathy with.

    We knew she lost a baby and we knew she was insistent on saving Clive at all costs, but what was missing was whatever moment that established a trigger or cause for her to start viewing Clive like he was her baby. A scene is missing, so to speak. Otherwise, how should we know, aside from guessing, that this was a case of transference from one to the other?

    I think had such a scene been included, people wouldn’t be so inclined to see her slapped.

  5. over 8 years ago on Endtown

    It would be unbelievable for characters to reveal their deepest innermost selves in ordinary moments to casual acquaintances and encounters, but people in real life also do reveal things about themselves to others in other, less ordinary moments and circumstances to people they’ve grown close to, respect and love.

    This has to be one of those moments. Someone Wally cares deeply for is acting in highly disconcerting, dangerous and psychotic way. It would be absolutely believable for him to come to the same conclusion that many of us already have: There is something about her she’s hiding which is driving this behavior, and it’s time to confront her about that, not just confront the outward expression of that which he did last strip. Only someone who knew her before this turn in behavior would understand there’s more to it than just surface behavior and only someone who cares for her would confront her about that deeper part.

    But even if all what you’re saying is true and this is meant to be an attempt at realism, we have to remember that realism isn’t in itself a reason to follow any medium in art. No amount of realism makes something worth following a story for. It takes craft, and craft is always artifice. The trick is to use craft to make situations emotionally resonant and believable. Even in the visual arts, realism isn’t the goal. And neither is realism the goal for stories. Believability is.

    Assuming we see her finally restrained from harming Chic, herself, or others, this has to be the next thing addressed. You can’t move forward without the reveal at this point. It’s the elephant in the living room. To ignore it would border on self-parody.

    And, it’s good for the story, too. Catharsis needs to happen. Stories need to change the nature of relationships through carefully timed release of information as events and plot circumstances move the characters to new places, and create gaps in expected (normal Holly) and visible (psychotic Holly) behavior, and this moment is primed for just such a reveal. The gap has to close for the audience to feel catharsis. This is why we love art and the art of storytelling in particular.

    As for Clive, I never really got enough from him to hint at a character arc or anything which would require him to stick around in the story. That’s not saying there couldn’t be, but if there’s a reason to have him stick around in the story longer, I can’t see it. He’s a plot device more than a character at this point.

  6. over 8 years ago on Endtown

    All right so, I’m starting to see a bit of a problem with narrative right now. It has to do with the fact that we know who Holly is, but that this isn’t her. We also know that Wally understands who she really is and knows this is out of character for her. This is problematic for a couple of different reasons. The first, is that it makes a character we like appear to be a villain by way of a huge change in character. And while mystery can be a good thing, this is not one of those times.

    While writing finding Nemo, Andrew Stanton originally had written the story so that we wouldn’t have seen the tragic attack on his wife and eggs/children in the until in the midway point of the film as a surprise reveal. Imagine what that would’ve done to the character of Marlon in the eyes of the audience if that was the case. He would’ve become a completely unlikable and unsympathetic character. Knowledge is everything in this case and withholding it has little or no value in comparison. The rest of the Pixar team understood this and corrected Stanton on the matter. Mystery should never come at the cost of empathy. (Gravity Falls is a great example of how to get both) Stanton still apparently was very much in love with this idea though, and he used it in John Carter. But with no one to correct him he failed to realize the same problem existed. John Carter is a good film with one huge glaring flaw. We do not understand why John Carter is in moping mess for half the film so we think that’s his personality. It would’ve served the film better if we had seen the scene with his family’s distraction from the onset. We need to empathize with protagonists unless they’re designed as anti-heros from the beginning.

    The other big issue I see here, is that while Holly’s behavior up until this point has been mostly curious, not warranting Wally pushing the issue, we are well beyond the point her behavior goes from curious to dangerous. She’s about to attack and innocent (not to mention abused) child for no clear reason. We know as much as Wally knows. If we ourselves would be demanding answers of Holly, then so much the more should Wally be demanding answers of Holly. The longer he fails to do this the more we question his intelligence. While it’s debatable at this point as to whether or not it was a good idea to withhold from the audience the information key to understanding Holly’s current behavior shift, this much is certain: we need to know right now what that is, because all we have is speculation and anyone’s guess is as good as anyone else’s.

  7. over 8 years ago on Endtown

    I’m wondering if Holly wants to get captured, de-brained and put into a transporter. Clive had said he had no memory of his previous life and was essentially immortal. Might be something Holly finds appealing given recent events. Still, on some level that means forgetting Wally too. Though I doubt her current state of mind is letting her think that far ahead.

  8. about 10 years ago on Endtown

    As an alternate explanation to the brainwashed spy theory, I would say it’s likely only half true. Seems like the logical defensive reaction by the topsiders to the Flask situation would be to trigger the subconscious into forgetting about life as a topsider should mutation occur. There would be no need for a spy to forget the perfect cover story (mutating to cure a terminal disease) if that’s what this indeed was. This is more likely the result any current topsider would experience if they should mutate. To prevent future turncoats from spilling any of their vulnerabilities.

  9. almost 11 years ago on Endtown

    Query: If all of this was to stop Allgood’s side from winning, but it was Jacob who had to fill up the ranks of Allgoods’ supporters in order to make him comfortable with his degree of popularity, then exactly what danger did Allgood ever truly pose that would make all of this necessary to stop him?

  10. almost 11 years ago on Endtown

    This plot is definitely starting to feel more complicated than necessary.

    I hate to say it, but I am missing very much the intimate nature of Holly/Wally’s introduction story and Al and Gustine’s story.