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For Heaven's Sake by Mike Morgan for April 06, 2009

  1. Warthog
    wndrwrthg  almost 13 years ago

    If christians were not so hostile towards society.

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    grandmatomany  almost 13 years ago

    Society will do anything to belittle and remove Christians because they do not want to be reminded of all the sins they are committing.

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    Sugie63  almost 13 years ago

    If EVERYONE would concentrate on doing good instead of what we’ve done bad maybe the world would be a better place.

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    How can you do anything good when the Bible says we are dead in our sins and desperately wicked, our thoughts are continuously evil. A person can only do things that are “relatively” good - but in God’s eyes they are filthy rags. True good comes from another source than ourselves.

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    Dry and Dusty Premium Member almost 13 years ago

    How very appropriate Mr. Morgan! Lovely!

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    barbhinkins  almost 13 years ago

    DerekA - maybe you could read a bit more of the Bible, like the part where God took care of the fact that we are dead in our sins … He sent His Son to die for us, dealing with our sin if we choose to believe in Him. Happy Easter :)

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    Barbhinkins - right on! and here is the verse Acts 16:31 - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

    My issue was with the new age/ emergent concept proposed by Sugie63. The reason we need salvation is because there is no “good” in us. What was proposed was man by his own efforts and that obtains nothing. The only goodness comes through regeneration done first by God as discussed by Jesus and Nicodemus.

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    Doc - I am not at all surprised. Christ said that Christians were to expect that. I think what I am surprised about is the amount of time Christians were given in this country to have the freedoms they enjoyed. As we see the changes in Germany, Netherlands and England Christians must recognize that those changes are coming here and soon.

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    Geekologist  almost 13 years ago

    If Christians didn’t go around attacking other people with their beliefs about “sin”, they might not be met with hostility. However, most people want to shut them up before they can get started.

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    frsalomon  almost 13 years ago

    “We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” - Richard Dawkins - Channel 4, UK (1941- )

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    frsalomon  almost 13 years ago

    “Most will say that God made man in his own image. I suspect then that man, being a gentleman, returned the favor.” - Voltaire (1694-1778)

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    Geekologist - Sorry you feel you have been “attacked”, maybe the issue is understanding the definition. Sin is simply missing the mark or standard that has been set. God sets a standard that is termed Holy. All men fail to meet that standard. Technically our government does the same thing - when you get a ticket for running a red light or speeding you failed to meet the standard.

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    frsalomon - quoting athiests as we approach a Christian holiday - hmmm, didn’t we just have national atheist’s day on April 1st? I guess the best I can do for you is quote Psalm 14:1 - a fool has said in his heart “There is no God!”

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    barbhinkins - “He sent His Son to die for us, dealing with our sin if we choose to believe in Him.”

    One more thought - please find me any verse in the Bible that gives us the power to CHOOSE Him. I find hundreds of references for Him choosing us. Remember, without the gift of faith (Eph 2:8,9) we can do nothing.

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    rookie26201  almost 13 years ago

    TODAY IS GOOD FRIDAY

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    rookie26201  almost 13 years ago

    “AND THE CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD AND THOSE AROUND HIM SAID,’SURELY THIS IS THE SON OF GOD!’”

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    rjvjelly  almost 13 years ago

    would someone please explain the difference of jesus dying to take away our sins and throwing the virgin into the volcano to take away the sins of the village. human sacrifice is human sacrifice, period.

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    The difference is huge. The issue centers around recognizing two things. In Adam all have failed to meet God’s standard (sin) - because of Adam we all sin - commit personal sins. So we are doubly cursed. IF there is a God and HE is what He claims to be and that is Holy and cannot have a relationship with that which is unholy, then there must be a bridge to re-establish that relationship. The entire Old Testament describes symbolically what that will be. Read Isaiah 53 for what the Atonement or sacrifice will be like. This is only one prophecy - there are 117 other very clear passages I could refer you to. Further Christ’s own words indicated this - Matt 12:32. The concept was the innocent would die for the guilty John 8:40,46. Christ voluntarily laid down His life for His sheep John 10:15. His purpose was to be a ransom for many Matt 20:28 - not all but many. All have the possibility to be part of the many until the moment of death. It was the love of God that led led Him to sacrifice His son for others.

    So what is the difference? God had planned this for His Son in eternity past and the Son agreed and carried out the plan. Christ was not just human but fully human and fully God. God’s demand was for perfection to atone. Anything else is a corruption.

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    silver_banana33  almost 13 years ago

    the difference is the choice. i’m not up on my bible quotes as i should be, but somewhere, it says something along the line of, there is no greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. so, that’s the real difference. anyone who sacrifices themselves for a friend is showing the greatest love, Jesus just did it for everyone.

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    Choice is true, but it goes further. Consider that the Jews were involved in the cult of Molech. Molech which required human sacrifice. In this sacrifice the baby was placed into and onto the heated metal mouth and burned alive. Although we do not burn our babies we do perform this sacrifice and is part of the Wiccan cult - now they use abortion as the means of sacrifice. All these sacrifices are a corruption of what God asked man to do. Christ followed what God asked and was therefore the perfect sacrifice.

    I am actually more concerned with your last statement with the word “everyone”. Here is Matt 20:28 “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Please note - it is not everyone - only many. Why? Look at Romans 4:22 and following to verse 5:2 - And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. The critical thing to notice in this passage is that Paul is speaking to believers so he uses the word “us”, “our” and “we”. This is not everyone. If it was everyone then unbelievers would have “righteousness imputed” to them. They would also believe and they would also be justified and of course have peace with God. It cannot be everyone as we know the rich man in the story with Lazarus was in hell. So that one person makes “everyone” invalid. If it meant everyone then I would expect to see Mao, Hitler, Stalin and a whole lot of other folks in heaven

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    He is risen!

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    silver_banana33  almost 13 years ago

    i say everyone, in that Jesus gave everyone the chance through his sacrifice. true, not everyone will take advantage of this, but without him, well… all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I stand by my ‘everyone’

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    DerekA  almost 13 years ago

    I agree that everyone has sinned. I just don’t know of any verse in the Bible that says Christ died for everyone. You are talking about the universal call that is made to everyone to believe - agreed - but He only died for the elect. Otherwise all are saved. based on the quoted verses justification is only for the elect. If all are justified - all are saved, all are righteous - that is universal salvation. All have sinned but not all are justified and made righteous. Response to the universal call for salvation is done through Ephesians 2:8-9 or John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him on the last day. The word there for “draws” is the same word elsewhere used as compel or drag. The decision as I said is made by God in eternity past and the effective benefits of Christ’s death is not for everyone. Do you believe that God is so weak that those He chose for salvation he cannot do? If He justified all and made righteous all as you say then He should be able to save all - or else the unbeliever is more powerful than God and therefore he is god. By the way - do not pick John 3:16 because the “whosoever” in context refers to those who believe not to those that don’t believe.

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