The real problem is bad measurement and false assumptions about how education works. You get what you measure, and that means that if you measure schools according to the average performance of their students, they have a motive to kick out anyone not performing! It happened in Texas (where the Bush campaign diddled with the numbers — okay, they lied — when advertising the success of the NCLB precursor program). If the intent of good teaching is to reach kids who might struggle a bit more, then NCLB works to exactly the opposite of that.The national version isn’t really any better than the Texan version, despite bipartisan support. They’re relying on what are, frankly, simpleminded tests of knowledge without reference to reasoning. To Bruce’s point, the central question is what you intend public education to be. Are you really trying to educate the whole population? Or only those who find it easy to learn the way most schools happen to teach?
I think you are correct, Eryx. I ddon’t know why this idea does not get more attention.
@howie: Of course you are 100% correct. There were no weak teachers under bush II, Bush I or Ronnie Raygun. You will NEVER have sunburned ears.
It’s kinda funny, but although teachers must be overpaid and get too much vacation time and only work 6 hours a day, there are not long lines waiting to get into that profession. And everyone who watches TV surey knows how to teach.
Local control of what is taught and how it is administered is a Power-Trip. Obama bowed to the wishes of governors (lots of R, too) and gave back choice to replace standardized tests with a piece of paper (goals) to be posted in the teachers lounge. The Unions won. The Children lost.
If Public Schools want to survive the Voucher Threat (competition) they have to change. Magnet schools are great. Regular schools should consider a 2-tier organization: ‘High Standards’ section and ‘Everyone Else’ section. 2 classes taught for core curriculum: ‘No Nonsense’ and ‘Minimum Standard’. Anyone showing inappropriate behavior in ‘No Nonsense’ is sent, by the teacher, to ‘Minimum Standard’. ‘No Nonsense’ students are nationally tested and those that flunk are sent to ‘Minimum Standard’. Children will have to pass an entrance exam to get into ‘No Nonsense’. If necessary, segregate the physical facilities to control discipline and isolate bullies. There may need to be a policeman in the ‘Minimum Standard’ classes to maintain order. This is real class warfare.
There is hope for young adults who waste their high school years. GED and Community College is there for those that want a second chance. I was a college drop-out. I finished my 2 College degrees at night over 4 years. CLEP really helped. The American Dream: Invest in yourself and reap 10-fold.
“a higher level of parental involvement produce better outcomes. To which I say, “Duh!”… YES. Magnets are Good in the Real World. Since parental involvement is key to obtaining good teachers and maintaining a quality environment, you get back what you put effort into. Money can compensate for a lack of parents- if you spend 4-times what a parent-involved school spends. My 2-tier approach is a response to the REALITY of most schools. Motivated Students/Parents and tutoring can do well. Those children that are not motivated now will have an Example (to remember) of how motivated people behave AND these unmotivated children Will Not be Allowed to Tear Down Others Who Are Trying.
@Eryx….“I am a college teacher” …I sensed there was something ‘ivory tower’ about you. I have been tapped (from time to time) in the business world to teach fellow employees on company time. Working with motivated students is demanding and a joy. I come from a long line of teachers at all levels.
Motivemagus over 12 years ago
The real problem is bad measurement and false assumptions about how education works. You get what you measure, and that means that if you measure schools according to the average performance of their students, they have a motive to kick out anyone not performing! It happened in Texas (where the Bush campaign diddled with the numbers — okay, they lied — when advertising the success of the NCLB precursor program). If the intent of good teaching is to reach kids who might struggle a bit more, then NCLB works to exactly the opposite of that.The national version isn’t really any better than the Texan version, despite bipartisan support. They’re relying on what are, frankly, simpleminded tests of knowledge without reference to reasoning. To Bruce’s point, the central question is what you intend public education to be. Are you really trying to educate the whole population? Or only those who find it easy to learn the way most schools happen to teach?
eepatt over 12 years ago
I think you are correct, Eryx. I ddon’t know why this idea does not get more attention.
@howie: Of course you are 100% correct. There were no weak teachers under bush II, Bush I or Ronnie Raygun. You will NEVER have sunburned ears.
It’s kinda funny, but although teachers must be overpaid and get too much vacation time and only work 6 hours a day, there are not long lines waiting to get into that profession. And everyone who watches TV surey knows how to teach.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 12 years ago
Local control of what is taught and how it is administered is a Power-Trip. Obama bowed to the wishes of governors (lots of R, too) and gave back choice to replace standardized tests with a piece of paper (goals) to be posted in the teachers lounge. The Unions won. The Children lost.
pirate227 over 12 years ago
Brought to you by the edjewkashun president, Dubya.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 12 years ago
If Public Schools want to survive the Voucher Threat (competition) they have to change. Magnet schools are great. Regular schools should consider a 2-tier organization: ‘High Standards’ section and ‘Everyone Else’ section. 2 classes taught for core curriculum: ‘No Nonsense’ and ‘Minimum Standard’. Anyone showing inappropriate behavior in ‘No Nonsense’ is sent, by the teacher, to ‘Minimum Standard’. ‘No Nonsense’ students are nationally tested and those that flunk are sent to ‘Minimum Standard’. Children will have to pass an entrance exam to get into ‘No Nonsense’. If necessary, segregate the physical facilities to control discipline and isolate bullies. There may need to be a policeman in the ‘Minimum Standard’ classes to maintain order. This is real class warfare.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 12 years ago
There is hope for young adults who waste their high school years. GED and Community College is there for those that want a second chance. I was a college drop-out. I finished my 2 College degrees at night over 4 years. CLEP really helped. The American Dream: Invest in yourself and reap 10-fold.
tcity over 12 years ago
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 12 years ago
“a higher level of parental involvement produce better outcomes. To which I say, “Duh!”… YES. Magnets are Good in the Real World. Since parental involvement is key to obtaining good teachers and maintaining a quality environment, you get back what you put effort into. Money can compensate for a lack of parents- if you spend 4-times what a parent-involved school spends. My 2-tier approach is a response to the REALITY of most schools. Motivated Students/Parents and tutoring can do well. Those children that are not motivated now will have an Example (to remember) of how motivated people behave AND these unmotivated children Will Not be Allowed to Tear Down Others Who Are Trying.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 12 years ago
@Eryx….“I am a college teacher” …I sensed there was something ‘ivory tower’ about you. I have been tapped (from time to time) in the business world to teach fellow employees on company time. Working with motivated students is demanding and a joy. I come from a long line of teachers at all levels.
grayhares01 over 12 years ago
Wait, I thought govt regulations were a good thing?
.
Can you liberals huddle or something so that you can start making sense…?
grayhares01 over 12 years ago
“I’m a college teacher…”
.
That explains an awful lot…