Tom Toles for December 14, 2009

thanks for the toon, Toles. Why bother worrying about inconsistency when your constituents don’t notice it and the special interests shower you with campaign cash if you do their bidding and not that of your constituents.

So, much as I dislike Toles. I do like the way he draws elephants. They look charming, almost Babar-ish.

As usual, Toles nails the issue on the head. This man deserves another Pulitzer.

I too am a fan of the Babaresq quality of his elephants. But in regards to the cartoon, I agree. And it is a shame that the public option was dropped since that would be only real way to inact true legislation on health care. The public option would have become the legal standard for how insurance have to treat their customers and what is in place now is going to be nothing more than the same ol’ junk which is heavily watered down. When is the American congress going to grow some balls and actually pass legislation that will make a difference. Sure it is going to be annoying, but isnt it immature and pathetic if the most you can accomplish is essentially nothing?

@scottfreitas

Lest we not forget who put the country in debt in the first place!

Some of us haven’t forgotten who put us in debt in the first place. Jimmy Carter and the Dems in the late ’70s. Remember double digit inflation and unemployment? Wev’e just continued the trend. Both sides are partly responsible for the reprehensibel B.S. our economy is in, the Dems just slitghtly more so the the GOP. The only thing that will truly get these people out of OUR pocket books and wallets, is the FairTax plan. And before you start berating me for suggesting it, try actually reading the bleeep thing. It still brings money into the government coffers, but it takes away Congress’ ability to spend it where they want. It goes directly to set programs, thereby eliminating earmarks all together. On a side note, there are NO MORE federal government withholdings coming out of YOUR paycheck for anything. Oh, let’s not forget the other thing that would prevent them from becoming any more powerful than they already are, TERM LIMITS. If they’re restricted to how many terms they can serve, maybe they’ll start working for their constituents again instead working for the next re-election.

The time to pay the band is comming and it will not be pretty.

goodness!— happy holidays to everyone!

well, at least try

Some people use this list just to blow off steam, and I suspect there’s nothing to be done about it. But those of us who are interested in some attempt at rational discussion should resist the impulse to respond in kind. Insults are not going to get us anywhere.

Speaking from the left, I find that there are some areas in which I share the concerns of those on the right. For instance, I do not advocate a centrally planned economy – but who does in US politics at this point? Almost everyone admits the need for some kind of mixed economy, and the question is what goes where?

I also worry about the massive government debt. Although I think that there are times when the government should intervene in the economy, it’s bad policy to maintain a big debt as a permanent fixture. For one thing, that makes the government less agile when there is a need to intervene. The US should never fight a war that it isn’t prepared to pay for up front – we should have learned that from Lyndon Johnson’s mistake.

It should be possible to have a national health insurance program that doesn’t increase the debt. All the other industrialized countries can do it, so why can’t we? Personally I favor a single payer Canadian model, but there are other models, and perhaps a different model would work better. For those on the left – the Canadian system was introduced incrementally, so even if the bill isn’t perfect, it’s possible to build on it. Don’t let the best be the enemy of the good.

I also worry – a lot – about the prospect of an Iranian nuclear weapon (to say nothing of the reality of a North Korean nuclear weapon). But that’s the easy part. The hard part is figuring out what to do about it. A military response would be insane.

So there are a few issues where it seems to me that there is some common ground at least in goals. But perhaps I’m wrong.

“Just SPEND SPEND SPEND! And when you finally succeed in destroying the economy beyond all hope of repair, just announce a state of National Emergency, declare Martial Law, and seize control of all wealth and private property while eliminating all of your political opponents”

So … did Bush get out of office before Cheney’s master plan was complete?

Does anybody find Scoofy’s new avatar ridiculous??

For such an off-the-rails name calling hater to self-associate with such a great statesman is borderline offensive.

Did Lincoln hate women, too?

lonecat -

Hear, hear! I love what you wrote about the “mixed economy.” The obvious truth is that our economy is a combination of what I would call utilities (police, fire, roads, etc.), and free market (yachts, diamonds, etc.).

Political discussions like the current one about heath care should be framed by the argument “which economy should this particular market be a part of?” All too often we hear the absolutist’s slogan, “the government is bad at everything!” Which is beside the point, but liberals seem to always want to punch that tar baby with, “corporate bureaucracy is just as bad, maybe worse.”

There is waste everywhere. Reagan was playing the rubes with his welfare queen stories. When people want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, they probably didn’t like the baby all that much.

Right now, the people want health care to be a utility. The rich want to keep making money off the sick. Guess we know which side the Congess and the President are on.

As Professor Wagstaff (Groucho Marx) said in the 1932 movie Horsefeathers: “Whatever it is, I’m against it.”

@morthena - In 8 yrs, Kennedy/Johnson increased the nat’l debt by $250B. In 8 yrs, Nixon/Ford increased it by $700B. In 4 yrs, Carter increased it by $480B. In 8 yrs, Reagan increased it by $2TRILLION. In 4 yrs, Bush Sr increased it by $1TRILLION. In 8 yrs, Clinton DECREASED it by $14B. In 8 yrs, Bush Jr increased it by $4TRILLION.

How are your math skills?

It’s Amazing that the Gulf Wars, Afghan wars, tax cuts for the wealthy and keeping all undesirable expenditures off the budget line had nothing to do with the current state of the economy. No, it was Jimmy Carter’s inability to prevent an oil embargo 30 years ago and Bill Clinton’s horrific balanced budget that created the mess we’re in. Yup, and black is white, up is down, disgrace is loving and all things will be fixed when Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh grab the controls of the USS Constitution and steers us off the edge of our flat Earth.

majority of gop voted for ssa – washington times

yes phoke i am rich i earn 50000 per year so i got a cut — it is hard to cut taxes for those who pay 0

pholkiephred, relevant and pointed reminders of facts are welcome here. thanks. Unfortunately, the rabid right ignores them, but some of us appreciate them.

Dear eft,

Thanks for your comment. I generally think in three categories: (1) private concerns in which the government has no business; (2) private concerns which need some government regulation; and (3) public concerns which should be run by some level of government (local, state, or federal). I would put a lot into number 2, and not all that much into number 3. There are also nuances beyond this rough division. For instance, in the Canadian single payer health care insurance system, the government is the only insurer, but physicians are self-employed, they are not employees of the government, and individuals select their own doctors. It’s hardly a perfect system, but it’s better than the current US mess. I am less familiar with the various European systems, and perhaps one of those is better. But my point is that within the three way division I’ve outlined, there are more distinctions to be made. Of course there are ideological positions – I do not pretend to be innocent of ideology – but within these ideological positions there is also room for pragmatic choices.

Tole’s cartoon is a treasure that tells it as it is. Until the USA achieves universal healthcare the American citizen is being ripped off by the for-profit health care industry. It is an obscenity to profit excessively from the sickness of fellow human beings. Most civilized countries support this concept.

Deficit spending is a direct result of WWll. We were fighting for the worlds very existance. Goods were rationed, you couldn’t buy most goods without a demonstrated need and others not at all. If you wanted butter, you better own a cow. That is how margarine came into being. People supported the war & their gov’t by buying war bonds with their extra money. We kids bought war stamps at school with our pennies, nickles, dimes & quarters. These conditions are the only reason for deficit spending, period. If you run your life or household like that you are soon homeless. We need to stop, payoff the debt then live with in our means. If we want something we need to provide the revenue before we start a project. You do this by cutting back on your spending or increasing your revenue, AFTER you eliminate the debt. This is easily done in your personal life, but I haven’t the knowledge or the experience to provide the answer on a nat’l level.

All of this being said: what I mostly see on these posts are jr high school election ranting, all hot air with no substance.

If you want to post, post, but for crying out loud use a little thought before hand.

I calls ‘em like I sees ‘em.

Elephants like to stay the course. They are not built for quick changes in direction. Stay the course, change is dangerous. Stay with the devil you know and love/hate. Elephants can’t turn on a dime, they require billion$.

Donkeys like to try the ‘Help the helpless’ routine. They will build a donkey solution, but they forget to defend it. It seems they assume the average American is smart enough to connect-the-dots. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans are tuning into Jerry Springer, Pro Wrestling, or some Soap opera. Dots is too hard to connect fer U.S.. It’s SO much easier to believe the fear the Elephants are spouting. That away the thinkin is all done fer U.S. Donkeys turn on a dime and over spend billion$.

So; Democrates are like debit cards with their ‘tax and spend’ nature. Republicans are like credit cards with their ‘deficit spend’ nature. Pay now or pay later with interest. It’s like placing a bet in the Wild Kingdom Casino. Either way is a dangerous gamble .

National Debt (public)1981- $997 Billion. (end of Carter ad.)

National Debt 1993- $4.4 TRILLION (end Reagan/Bush 41) (X 4 increase)

National Debt 2001-$5.8 Trillion(end of Clinton)(24%increase)

National Debt 2007-$ 9 TRILLION Thanks W! He actually doubled down, as it was over $12 (almost $13T) under his last budget (2009 fiscal year) and “fiscal responsibility”)(nearly doubled the debt in 8 years, and that is now TRILLIONS of dollars!)

Using “fiscal responsibility ” and the neocons since Reagan in the same sentence should be a crime.

^What are you talking about? Reagan was a great president…at least on t.v. anyway.

Excellent cartoon.