The Democratic pros totally blew HRC’s run. Not that she didn’t help. The pollsters were pretty much all wrong. In 2016, I thought that Sanders would have won: He was reaching people who were discouraged voters, and they were voting. He’s not perfect: He’s too honest, too nuanced (Yeah, really, even though he’s got his moments of downright simplicity). I think he can win now, too; though I’d prefer Warren.
Can Bernie win a general election? There is a sad lesson to be learned about the difference between winning a primary and winning a general election.
We need to remember the election of 1972. It was the first election I was old enough to vote in (previous presidential election you had to be 21 to vote).
In my very first election, the California Primary, I eagerly cast my vote for the darling of the far left, George McGovern. McGovern was a good guy. He would have been a good president. Kind of like Bernie. I was so pumped up for McGovern.
1972 was the last year that California, with our huge delegate count, was winner-take-all, and when McGovern carried our state, with my first little vote in the mix, it put him over the number to clinch the delegate count.
All of us young, long-haired college students were so thrilled and excited!
Of course, McGovern went on to face Richard Nixon, up for reelection — the president who, up until Trump, was the most corrupt in history and, just as Trump would do to Bernie, Nixon carried 61% of the vote and 49 states.
Bernie has a good message; I supported him in 2016 (after Elizabeth Warren declined to run) when the country was looking to shake things up and he could have won, but right now the country is looking to stop the shaking.
So I am supporting Elizabeth Warren, the candidate who offers very similar ideology and policy ideas, but with far more technical knowledge, pragmatic, realistic strategies, but who does NOT terms like “socialist” and “revolution” that scare people, and that aren’t even accurate, but which Trump will tattoo on Bernie’s forehead with a branding iron and pound relentlessly into the airwaves with Russian-funded ads.
Bernie came close to winning last time around, but the Democratic establishment shoved Hillary down our throats . . . and, look how well THAT turned out. There were a lot of Bernie voters in 2016 who ended up voting for Trump, so, yes, I think he can win back many of the Trumpers. As we learned in the last election, voters don’t want business as usual – they want someone who will shake things up.
Please, let us not repeat 2016 where all the wrong assumptions were made.
There has been a false narrative created that has divided the nation with two definitions of justice. The false narrative must be eliminated so all of We The People can prosper and grow based on their own productivity, rather than just an exclusive few who benefit from that productivity but do not actually contribute to it.
“slavering mob that would likely tear your silly liberal arse to shreds like a pack of dogs if you showed a Bernie sign?” Evidently, you haven’t been to Arizona. Had my car windows broken out and door bashed in because I had an Obama sticker on my bumper. I’m afraid to put a Bernie sticker on it, but I vote.
Tom, there are several big difference. Bernie has been pushing the same identical things for 60 years that 70% of Americans consistently say they do not support. Unlike Bernie, Trump’s positions were less known and not as well-defined. And unlike Bernie, Trump is a liar and dishonorable poltroon. Sadly for him, Bernie is not a liar and is an honorable man; he doesn’t stand a chance.
And I’d vote for Bernie EONS before EVEN CONSIDERING voting tor The treasonweasel. I’d MUCH RATHER live under a “Left-wing Socialist” then “Reich-Wing FASCISTS” like trump and his crime cartel!
It puts a smile on my face to see the Republican-Lite wing of the Democratic Party in full panic mode. The real Democrats are taking their party back. It’s about time.
Bernie should never have run in the first place, contenting himself with being an elder statesman. Wait, strike that: Bernie is incapable of being statesmanlike! (Of course, Trump is incapable of honesty and patriotism…….)
As lifelong conservative and former Republican strategist, Rick Wilson (author of "Running Against the Devil: A Plot to Save America From Trump—and Democrats From Themselves) correctly points out, Trump’s handlers are SALIVATING at the idea of Sanders being the nominee. (They would be frothing at the mouth if it were Bloomberg—different matter entirely.) The Trump attack machine would call any Democratic nominee a “socialist”, of course, but somebody who calls himself a “social democrat”? (Not to mention his USSR and Cuba easily-exploitable weaknesses.) If Sanders is the nominee the turnout will be immense on both sides, but in all probability more people will vote against him than for him. Because they would be running scared after all the Trump attack machine’s bombing the living hell out of Sanders. (Btw, Wilson’s other book, “Everything Trump Touches Dies” is ALSO an excellent read.)
One last thing: Rick Wilson correctly points out that the Democrats frequently make the mistake of thinking that the presidential election is a NATIONAL election. Remember Bill Clinton’s famous mantra, “It’s the economy stupid”, focussed his campaign like a laser, and, as I recall, he won HIS election. The Democratic mantra this year must be “It’s the Electoral College, stupid.”
The basic difference is glaring, obvious and rarely spoken. Trump did and will again persuade Independents and some Dems to hold their nose and vote for his policies and his success.
Bernie cannot draw Republicans or conservatives across the line. Even those who hate Trump. The DNC knows this in their bones and fears a Sanders candidacy. What the left fails to understand is that none of their other candidates have the capacity to attract the right to a meaningful degree.
Biden should never have run. He is damaged goods. Bloomberg can attract Wall Street like no other the Dems have but he too has some image problems. Persuading minority voters on the fence to support Mike over Trump is a very hard sell.
Buttigieg is a non-starter for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his orientation. Doesn’t matter if it is good or bad, right or wrong, America is NOT going to elect a gay POTUS. Perhaps in the future, but not today. Warren is a deeply damaged version of Sanders who lacks the core convictions and principals of Sanders.
Steyer is DOA. Klobuchar MIGHT have been able to pull in the moderate vote had Joe stayed home. Gabbard is DOA, never should have bothered.
Concretionist about 4 years ago
The Democratic pros totally blew HRC’s run. Not that she didn’t help. The pollsters were pretty much all wrong. In 2016, I thought that Sanders would have won: He was reaching people who were discouraged voters, and they were voting. He’s not perfect: He’s too honest, too nuanced (Yeah, really, even though he’s got his moments of downright simplicity). I think he can win now, too; though I’d prefer Warren.
DD Wiz Premium Member about 4 years ago
Can Bernie win a general election? There is a sad lesson to be learned about the difference between winning a primary and winning a general election.
We need to remember the election of 1972. It was the first election I was old enough to vote in (previous presidential election you had to be 21 to vote).
In my very first election, the California Primary, I eagerly cast my vote for the darling of the far left, George McGovern. McGovern was a good guy. He would have been a good president. Kind of like Bernie. I was so pumped up for McGovern.
1972 was the last year that California, with our huge delegate count, was winner-take-all, and when McGovern carried our state, with my first little vote in the mix, it put him over the number to clinch the delegate count.
All of us young, long-haired college students were so thrilled and excited!
Of course, McGovern went on to face Richard Nixon, up for reelection — the president who, up until Trump, was the most corrupt in history and, just as Trump would do to Bernie, Nixon carried 61% of the vote and 49 states.
Bernie has a good message; I supported him in 2016 (after Elizabeth Warren declined to run) when the country was looking to shake things up and he could have won, but right now the country is looking to stop the shaking.
So I am supporting Elizabeth Warren, the candidate who offers very similar ideology and policy ideas, but with far more technical knowledge, pragmatic, realistic strategies, but who does NOT terms like “socialist” and “revolution” that scare people, and that aren’t even accurate, but which Trump will tattoo on Bernie’s forehead with a branding iron and pound relentlessly into the airwaves with Russian-funded ads.
Daeder about 4 years ago
Bernie is still a fully functioning adult who isn’t a traitor to America. So he’s way ahead of the president* in terms of qualifications.
Old_Curmudgeon about 4 years ago
Who can beat Whom? – {2 beats/phrase}
‘Bout Who can beat Whom, // we can safely assume
that no one yet knows // {not even the pros}.
… Coda: – {4 beats/line}
Doggies. What if the victor’s anOther
and not the one whom by far we ‘druther
elect as our president // and the White House’s resident?
What if it’s TRUMP??!! // {We’d grumble and grump
that ‘twould’ve been better to choose Forrest Gump.}
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Old_Curmudgeon about 4 years ago
{Off-topic:}
What will the Trumpites Say? – {4 beats/line}
What will they say of their MAGAted nation
if Trumpism reaches its consummation?
Will THEN they admit // that he’s turned us to [censored]? -
- or Will they still speak in adulation?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
sevaar777 about 4 years ago
Oh, lay that rap beat on, baby! And remember, ya can’t fix stupid.
Richard S Russell Premium Member about 4 years ago
You know who else was an ultra-radical guy with a revolutionary idea who was given no chance to win? Abraham Lincoln.
Zebrastripes about 4 years ago
BOO HISS!
Melki Premium Member about 4 years ago
Bernie came close to winning last time around, but the Democratic establishment shoved Hillary down our throats . . . and, look how well THAT turned out. There were a lot of Bernie voters in 2016 who ended up voting for Trump, so, yes, I think he can win back many of the Trumpers. As we learned in the last election, voters don’t want business as usual – they want someone who will shake things up.
William Bednar Premium Member about 4 years ago
He just trying to keep you away from the polls. Don’t fall for it. VOTE!!
ed27 about 4 years ago
Neither can win while the other survives…
superposition about 4 years ago
Please, let us not repeat 2016 where all the wrong assumptions were made.
There has been a false narrative created that has divided the nation with two definitions of justice. The false narrative must be eliminated so all of We The People can prosper and grow based on their own productivity, rather than just an exclusive few who benefit from that productivity but do not actually contribute to it.
rionmorrison69 about 4 years ago
“slavering mob that would likely tear your silly liberal arse to shreds like a pack of dogs if you showed a Bernie sign?” Evidently, you haven’t been to Arizona. Had my car windows broken out and door bashed in because I had an Obama sticker on my bumper. I’m afraid to put a Bernie sticker on it, but I vote.
PraiseofFolly about 4 years ago
“Frenetic Election Selection”
.
Is that all we’ll have, Donald the First or Prince Bernie?
Two elderly tough guys in a rough jousting tourney,
One the Black Knight with a heart dark as coal,
The other a Blue Knight with a pie-in-sky Goal.
.
The Warrior of the Right, the Hero of the Left:
Both are extremists of moderate views bereft.
Fully trust not the wicked, full trust not the saint,
Both are very tough choices, and each makes one faint.
.
Such sharp contrasts the media nearly always display,
Meant as holy drama in a morality play.
I wonder if the tension is real or just fake,
If it’s all infotainment, high ratings to make?
.
It seems that all the polls at first widely diverge,
Then as the campaigns progress they slowly converge,
Until it’s neck and neck right until the finish …
But the drama goes on, and STILL doesn’t diminish.
.
Who knows what is true, who knows what is mostly just smutch?
Russian hackers have screwed our perceptions so much!
Chaos spreads like a virus — a cruel metaphor,
As the near-pandemic deaths continue to soar.
.
Will democratic republics, of all kinds worldwide,
Stay securely in place, or will they falter and slide?
Twenty-Twenty may be when Human numbers decrease,
And our Democracy Ideals fade, and then cease.
thelordthygod666 about 4 years ago
Tom, there are several big difference. Bernie has been pushing the same identical things for 60 years that 70% of Americans consistently say they do not support. Unlike Bernie, Trump’s positions were less known and not as well-defined. And unlike Bernie, Trump is a liar and dishonorable poltroon. Sadly for him, Bernie is not a liar and is an honorable man; he doesn’t stand a chance.
Masterskrain Premium Member about 4 years ago
And I’d vote for Bernie EONS before EVEN CONSIDERING voting tor The treasonweasel. I’d MUCH RATHER live under a “Left-wing Socialist” then “Reich-Wing FASCISTS” like trump and his crime cartel!
Radish the wordsmith about 4 years ago
Exactly, don’t listen to the ‘polls’ the public wants to move left.
WaitingMan about 4 years ago
It puts a smile on my face to see the Republican-Lite wing of the Democratic Party in full panic mode. The real Democrats are taking their party back. It’s about time.
Godfreydaniel about 4 years ago
Bernie should never have run in the first place, contenting himself with being an elder statesman. Wait, strike that: Bernie is incapable of being statesmanlike! (Of course, Trump is incapable of honesty and patriotism…….)
Godfreydaniel about 4 years ago
As lifelong conservative and former Republican strategist, Rick Wilson (author of "Running Against the Devil: A Plot to Save America From Trump—and Democrats From Themselves) correctly points out, Trump’s handlers are SALIVATING at the idea of Sanders being the nominee. (They would be frothing at the mouth if it were Bloomberg—different matter entirely.) The Trump attack machine would call any Democratic nominee a “socialist”, of course, but somebody who calls himself a “social democrat”? (Not to mention his USSR and Cuba easily-exploitable weaknesses.) If Sanders is the nominee the turnout will be immense on both sides, but in all probability more people will vote against him than for him. Because they would be running scared after all the Trump attack machine’s bombing the living hell out of Sanders. (Btw, Wilson’s other book, “Everything Trump Touches Dies” is ALSO an excellent read.)
Godfreydaniel about 4 years ago
One last thing: Rick Wilson correctly points out that the Democrats frequently make the mistake of thinking that the presidential election is a NATIONAL election. Remember Bill Clinton’s famous mantra, “It’s the economy stupid”, focussed his campaign like a laser, and, as I recall, he won HIS election. The Democratic mantra this year must be “It’s the Electoral College, stupid.”
Andylit Premium Member about 4 years ago
The basic difference is glaring, obvious and rarely spoken. Trump did and will again persuade Independents and some Dems to hold their nose and vote for his policies and his success.
Bernie cannot draw Republicans or conservatives across the line. Even those who hate Trump. The DNC knows this in their bones and fears a Sanders candidacy. What the left fails to understand is that none of their other candidates have the capacity to attract the right to a meaningful degree.
Biden should never have run. He is damaged goods. Bloomberg can attract Wall Street like no other the Dems have but he too has some image problems. Persuading minority voters on the fence to support Mike over Trump is a very hard sell.
Buttigieg is a non-starter for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his orientation. Doesn’t matter if it is good or bad, right or wrong, America is NOT going to elect a gay POTUS. Perhaps in the future, but not today. Warren is a deeply damaged version of Sanders who lacks the core convictions and principals of Sanders.
Steyer is DOA. Klobuchar MIGHT have been able to pull in the moderate vote had Joe stayed home. Gabbard is DOA, never should have bothered.
You guys are gonna get hosed in November.