I’m pretty certain that after 20+ years of protecting our nation, no doubt likely serving overseas in harm’s way, the vets of this country rate a retirement. Getting shot at and possibly blown up kind of bumps you up over a paper-pusher in washington who’s biggest threat to their health is an infected papercut.
@ GB: I do have to agree with Vent on this one: He always is out front with who he is. I don’t think he sugar coats his hatred for conservatism.
Wraithkin, Being 100% permanent and total,(yet still spent 42 years working before “retirement) with a son waiting to join the ranks while the Navy screws up his paperwork (after 13 years of service, a few medals, and crippling injuries) some of those “entitlements” were earned in much harsher ways than anyone “being bled out by taxes”- they don’t actually pay- will ever understand.
Yes, there’s tons of waste to cut- like starting with defense, then handouts to corporations and “big boys” whose income comes from taxpayers- like energy companies using tax credits for their REAL profit margins, on which the CEOs pay no taxes.
The average American- read “whiner” has no clue how spending, or government has actually worked- for decades.
Which– Today’s Republicans, and especially neocons, would NEVER claim Teddy Roosevelt, in fact I’ve seen some claim he was a Democrat. The old saw of bringing up what Democrats, OR Republicans were over 100 years ago, or even 60, is stupid. BOTH parties have radically changed. “Liberal” is NOT a party, but a philosophy of using intellect, analysis, and openness to “new” ideas, or just plain ideas, instead of rote, blind, dogma.
Neither party is currently looking at the budget, or problems of the country with any real interest in solving the problems with rational thought, applied.
RV, you are a jackass. Care to know how many individuals in the military are injured just during training? Long separations from family? Deployment on a moment’s notice? I’m not a vet, but speak on behalf of the 1/2 dozen of my family members who have returned to these shores in flag-drapped coffins since WW II. Ever heard the crack of rifles and the sounds of a grieving widow you pompous ass?!!! Ever visited a home with an empty chair at the dinner table? Ever seen a picture of a DEAD soldier with a Silver Star draped around the frame?
Sure, there are slackers in the military as in every walk of life. Granted, perhaps the benefits are sometimes too generous.. for example, preferential treatment in federal hiring and VA loans. But a pension earned from military service? Yes, liberalism is a mental disorder.
phdtogo; I didn’t serve in the military, but logic tells me that if W didn’t go play hide and seek with Bin Laden and avenge his daddy in Iraq, there would be over 4000 fewer coffins draped in flags, 4000 fewer grieving widows, 4000 fewer grieving mothers and 4000 fewer empty chairs at dinner tables.
^^”W” may have just been compensating for the fact he went AWOL, then deserted, from the National Guard. Conservative arguments aside, proven fact. Civilians who serve in MANY capacities are indeed as honorable as those who served in the military.
Palin and “W” BOTH quit from their obligations-‘nuff said.
Ok RV, I think the main argument you are trying to make (if I read correctly) is that you believe everyone who’s put in service to “xyz cause” is entitled to a golden nugget at the end of the road. Is that right? Because if that is, we are doomed for bankruptcy as a nation.
The reason military get their benefits for life and paper-pushers don’t is a couple reasons.
Military members are contractually obligated to provide service, and can be given a felony discharge if they act if they go AWOL/UA. When was the last time a government paper-pusher was thrown in prison or found guilty of a crime for not showing up to work?
Type of work matters. At any point, any one of us who raised our right hands and swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic can be called upon at a moment’s notice and sent to a foreign shore within 72 hours. They can’t say “no.” (see above point). We can be shot at, blown up, captured, tortured, beaten, or stabbed as the regular course of our workday. When was the last time you heard that was part of the job description for a government clerk? “Yes, Judy, you could be shot at during the normal course of your work day. Is that okay?”
Military members can, and frequently are (especially today), seperated from their families for months on end. It doesn’t matter if you were in during a time of peace or conflict, the seperation possibility exists. They can’t say no (see point 1). Government employees can say no. They may lose their job, or not get paid for that time missed ,but they still can choose.
The retirement isn’t always about us. It’s also about our families, and the seperation they endured. The nights not knowing. The hesitation every time that phone rang. The going from married with 2 kids to being a single mom overnight. The ripples of a Marine/Guardsman/Airman/Soldier’s absence carry past just them. Their spouses, their kids. Their parents. Their siblings. It affects them all. No other job in the US government has that issue.
Roughly 1% of the US population is a member of the armed forces, give or take a few hundred thousand. Roughly 30% of the US population is a government employee. Scale matters too.
After 20 years of enduring all that, I think we have earned the retirement we receive. We don’t deserve it like you seem to think, as we are not entitled to anything. We have earned it, something a lot of government workers don’t seem to understand any more. Teachers (by and large) are no more at risk than a clerk in an office. The only exception I have to the benefits not being warranted are to the public saftey jobs (fire, police). They, as their job description, risk their lives, and should be rewarded for that risk.
Dtroutma about 13 years ago
Until the “axe” of actually increasing tax income is used, all efforts are just ill-placed vasectomies on the carotid.
Wraithkin about 13 years ago
I’m pretty certain that after 20+ years of protecting our nation, no doubt likely serving overseas in harm’s way, the vets of this country rate a retirement. Getting shot at and possibly blown up kind of bumps you up over a paper-pusher in washington who’s biggest threat to their health is an infected papercut.
@ GB: I do have to agree with Vent on this one: He always is out front with who he is. I don’t think he sugar coats his hatred for conservatism.
Dtroutma about 13 years ago
Wraithkin, Being 100% permanent and total,(yet still spent 42 years working before “retirement) with a son waiting to join the ranks while the Navy screws up his paperwork (after 13 years of service, a few medals, and crippling injuries) some of those “entitlements” were earned in much harsher ways than anyone “being bled out by taxes”- they don’t actually pay- will ever understand.
Yes, there’s tons of waste to cut- like starting with defense, then handouts to corporations and “big boys” whose income comes from taxpayers- like energy companies using tax credits for their REAL profit margins, on which the CEOs pay no taxes.
The average American- read “whiner” has no clue how spending, or government has actually worked- for decades.
Which– Today’s Republicans, and especially neocons, would NEVER claim Teddy Roosevelt, in fact I’ve seen some claim he was a Democrat. The old saw of bringing up what Democrats, OR Republicans were over 100 years ago, or even 60, is stupid. BOTH parties have radically changed. “Liberal” is NOT a party, but a philosophy of using intellect, analysis, and openness to “new” ideas, or just plain ideas, instead of rote, blind, dogma.
Neither party is currently looking at the budget, or problems of the country with any real interest in solving the problems with rational thought, applied.
phdtogo about 13 years ago
RV, you are a jackass. Care to know how many individuals in the military are injured just during training? Long separations from family? Deployment on a moment’s notice? I’m not a vet, but speak on behalf of the 1/2 dozen of my family members who have returned to these shores in flag-drapped coffins since WW II. Ever heard the crack of rifles and the sounds of a grieving widow you pompous ass?!!! Ever visited a home with an empty chair at the dinner table? Ever seen a picture of a DEAD soldier with a Silver Star draped around the frame?
Sure, there are slackers in the military as in every walk of life. Granted, perhaps the benefits are sometimes too generous.. for example, preferential treatment in federal hiring and VA loans. But a pension earned from military service? Yes, liberalism is a mental disorder.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 13 years ago
phdtogo; I didn’t serve in the military, but logic tells me that if W didn’t go play hide and seek with Bin Laden and avenge his daddy in Iraq, there would be over 4000 fewer coffins draped in flags, 4000 fewer grieving widows, 4000 fewer grieving mothers and 4000 fewer empty chairs at dinner tables.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 13 years ago
^Well he didn’t go there to avenge an attack made by saudi pilots!
Dtroutma about 13 years ago
^^”W” may have just been compensating for the fact he went AWOL, then deserted, from the National Guard. Conservative arguments aside, proven fact. Civilians who serve in MANY capacities are indeed as honorable as those who served in the military.
Palin and “W” BOTH quit from their obligations-‘nuff said.
Wraithkin about 13 years ago
snicker
Ok RV, I think the main argument you are trying to make (if I read correctly) is that you believe everyone who’s put in service to “xyz cause” is entitled to a golden nugget at the end of the road. Is that right? Because if that is, we are doomed for bankruptcy as a nation.
The reason military get their benefits for life and paper-pushers don’t is a couple reasons.
Military members are contractually obligated to provide service, and can be given a felony discharge if they act if they go AWOL/UA. When was the last time a government paper-pusher was thrown in prison or found guilty of a crime for not showing up to work? Type of work matters. At any point, any one of us who raised our right hands and swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic can be called upon at a moment’s notice and sent to a foreign shore within 72 hours. They can’t say “no.” (see above point). We can be shot at, blown up, captured, tortured, beaten, or stabbed as the regular course of our workday. When was the last time you heard that was part of the job description for a government clerk? “Yes, Judy, you could be shot at during the normal course of your work day. Is that okay?” Military members can, and frequently are (especially today), seperated from their families for months on end. It doesn’t matter if you were in during a time of peace or conflict, the seperation possibility exists. They can’t say no (see point 1). Government employees can say no. They may lose their job, or not get paid for that time missed ,but they still can choose. The retirement isn’t always about us. It’s also about our families, and the seperation they endured. The nights not knowing. The hesitation every time that phone rang. The going from married with 2 kids to being a single mom overnight. The ripples of a Marine/Guardsman/Airman/Soldier’s absence carry past just them. Their spouses, their kids. Their parents. Their siblings. It affects them all. No other job in the US government has that issue. Roughly 1% of the US population is a member of the armed forces, give or take a few hundred thousand. Roughly 30% of the US population is a government employee. Scale matters too.After 20 years of enduring all that, I think we have earned the retirement we receive. We don’t deserve it like you seem to think, as we are not entitled to anything. We have earned it, something a lot of government workers don’t seem to understand any more. Teachers (by and large) are no more at risk than a clerk in an office. The only exception I have to the benefits not being warranted are to the public saftey jobs (fire, police). They, as their job description, risk their lives, and should be rewarded for that risk.