How about a former VP candidate who, as big pro-gun hunter, puts gunsights on her perceived enemies, and tells her rabid followers to “reload”…and uses loaded rhetoric like “salvo” and “aim”….
And then takes those images off her website right after they have her desired effect?
A dope smoking, lone deranged lunatic, that has been obsessed and stalking Representative Giffords for years, is responsible for this, nobody else. Lets not forget his favorite reading was Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto.
Those attempting to advance political agendas by using this tragedy are disgusting.
There are valid points to be made about the level of our national debate, but so far nothing indicates that this event is either the time nor the place.
RIGHT ON BILDOG, These hate mongers, ala limbaugh, were the first to wash their hands of any responsibility in encouraging the type of action taken by the “Tuscon Twit”. Truth be known that this type of action, albeit not the gun violence, has been encouraged by limbaugh and his ilk since the election of Clinton. Their rhetoric encourages these type of people to become what the “Tucson Twit” became Saturday…a murderer. Let’s keep encouraging the limbaugh ilk to promote their type of hate mongering.
^ And there’s a little inconvenience we have in America called a TRIAL that has to come between the accusation and the verdict.
Part of the environment that enabled this lunatic is the toxicity in the media, heavily weighted to the right wing. Another is the lapse of the gun control laws that allow 30 shot magazines to be purchased for hand guns. Finally there’s the social breakdown that hampers getting these folks on the RIGHT drugs to curb their insanity.
Good to see that all the grief we have experienced has resulted in such a “coming-together” of the right and left as illustrated here. And, yes, Seymour, that’s known as sarcasm.
At least Oliphant isn’t irrationally suggesting who “pushed” the armed maniac, as the Washington Post, New York Times, and MSNBC have.
BTW, billdog–you have no idea what you are talking about. All I hear from mindless minions like you is that Limbaugh lies and is a purveyor of “hate speech,” and yet, I have YET to hear one word from them about WHAT he lies about, and WHAT “hate” he spews.
If anything, our country is doomed because it is filled with people (like you) who live by perceptions fed to you by the sorts of folks who are fueling the terrible event in Tuscon with unfounded politicized BUNK. If the country goes down in flames, it will be led by mindless goons who don’t have the slightest idea of what is going on, and that description identifies a LOT of folks who are blaming people who have NO connection whatsoever with Jared Loughner.
The shooter was deranged…too bad the Arizona lawmakers are always trying to make it easier to get weapons of mass destruction…pistols aren’t for anything but killing people(Saturday Night Special, Lynyrd Skynrd), add a 30 round clip, and bingo!
Doesn’t really matter who got this nit wit motivated, if all he had was ball point pens, a lot of people would be alive now.
N R A get a grip, you need to face reality….rifles(not assault weapons) and shotguns, fine…pistols should be closely regulated or banned outright.
This oughtta fire some freaks up (Republican types)
The answer is not in confiscating guns, but in not letting nut jobs buy guns in the first place. Better screening methods as part of the application for gun permit are required.
This violence isn’t the fault of the Right or the Left.
The rhetoric is bad, regardless, but it isn’t the point here. If people were to actually look to this and say, well hmm, maybe we should tone it down a bit, then it would do some good, but the Right this, Left that stuff isn’t what caused this.
More sedition, the conduct and language resulting therefrom in attempt to disrupt civic government, rather than terrorism, which is an agency outside native soil seeking overthrow, but that’s if you want to split semantic hairs, that is. If, as Clinton said, if…
Jade, I sense you are taking a responsible approach here, but remember why this issue is so hot for us on the Right…Yahoo News blasted Palin’s picture on their front-page the next day after the shootings, the sheriff of Pima County blamed Rush Limbaugh, Bob Brady writing a bill (immediately!) targeting certain kinds of speech, etc…etc….we HAVE to defend our rights of free-speech because this situation has taken on a very strange life of its own!
Want some tasty Right Wing quotes, folks? Here’s your bloody evidence, old school style, courtesy of today’s Truthout.org article by Wm. Rivers Pitt:
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95
“Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him.”
Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), talking about President Clinton
“We’re going to keep building the party until we’re hunting Democrats with dogs.”
Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Mother Jones, 08-95
“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02
“We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.”
Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02
“Chelsea is a Clinton. She bears the taint; and though not prosecutable in law, in custom and nature the taint cannot be ignored. All the great despotisms of the past - I’m not arguing for despotism as a principle, but they sure knew how to deal with potential trouble - recognized that the families of objectionable citizens were a continuing threat. In Stalin’s penal code it was a crime to be the wife or child of an ‘enemy of the people.’ The Nazis used the same principle, which they called Sippenhaft, ‘clan liability.’ In Imperial China, enemies of the state were punished ‘to the ninth degree’: that is, everyone in the offender’s own generation would be killed and everyone related via four generations up, to the great-great-grandparents, and four generations down, to the great-great-grandchildren, would also be killed.”
John Derbyshire, National Review, 02-15-01
“Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity. The degree these two have diminished is in direct proportion to the corruption and fall of the nation. Every problem that has arisen (sic) can be directly traced back to our departure from God’s Law and the disenfranchisement of White men.”
State Rep. Don Davis (R-NC), emailed to every member of the North Carolina House and Senate, reported by the Fayetteville Observer, 08-22-01
@HabaneroBuck - It’s stupid. Just like when the birds died people immediately started blaming DADT Repeal and Prop8 repeal and THAT was the first thing on the front pages, too, so it’s not like the Right’s not done the same even in recent days.
It irks me just as much that Palin is blamed for this. There’s no proof of that. About the only thing you can blame is the proliferation of assault weapons, because such things make it easy for one person to do this much damage before getting taken down.
oh fer pityś sake. lawyers in the first pillar, lawyers infesting the second pillar, lawyer in the third, at last a release, a real Man of Action makes the fourth one.
gawd help us.
and the legis, judis, come before the exec. get it right, ding wad.
It’s no surprise. Anti-government people kill other people. Pro-government people do not kill people. Gun nuts kill people. Gun control advocates do not kill people.
All that aside; the Four Pillars were supposed to be CO-Equal, Legislative to make the laws, Executive to carry them out, Judiciary to resolve differences, - and The Press (outside of Government) to pry under rocks and hope to keep the other three honest!
The fourth pillar has been vacant for some time now, ever since the co-option of The Press by the Secret Police (that’s the ‘Intelligence Community’, several named and unknown offices, who infiltrate their agents as reporters to plant stories, which are picked up by other press and run as truth.)
BE the Press, in the Internet Age; BE the Peace you wish to see happen. But keep in mind, Sturgeon’s Law applies.
^^ Interesting, because when Bush was President a major news organization going by something similar to Box Noos, and many leading Republicans said that being against the President in a time of war was unpatriotic.
Bluejayz over 13 years ago
Terrorism has occurred on US soil.
kreole over 13 years ago
The Civil War?
riley05 over 13 years ago
How about a former VP candidate who, as big pro-gun hunter, puts gunsights on her perceived enemies, and tells her rabid followers to “reload”…and uses loaded rhetoric like “salvo” and “aim”….
And then takes those images off her website right after they have her desired effect?
Charles Brobst Premium Member over 13 years ago
Palin is responsible.
riley05 over 13 years ago
Yeah, probably not in a criminal sense, but she must be feeling satisfaction.
blackash2004-tree Premium Member over 13 years ago
A dope smoking, lone deranged lunatic, that has been obsessed and stalking Representative Giffords for years, is responsible for this, nobody else. Lets not forget his favorite reading was Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto.
Those attempting to advance political agendas by using this tragedy are disgusting.
meetinthemiddle over 13 years ago
There are valid points to be made about the level of our national debate, but so far nothing indicates that this event is either the time nor the place.
Pjbflyn over 13 years ago
Nice one Mr. Oliphant. Our fourth pillar of justice, the idiot gun nation, on a pedestal erected by Fox News and Friends.
Wildcard24365 over 13 years ago
Churchy: Where did you find that “tossed together at the last minute” graphic?
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
Fairport, his list included “We the Living” by Rand, but not Atlas Shrugged as far as his YouTube page goes….
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249381
txmystic over 13 years ago
The mere fact that there is a roiling debate as to “who’s to blame” rather than unified mourning speaks to the depth of the divisions in this country…
txmystic over 13 years ago
prfesser said,
Loughner should be shot. WE should be ashamed of ourselves for creating the environment that makes people like Loughner possible.”
Umm, aren’t comments like “_______ should be shot” a big part of creating that environment?
sidl over 13 years ago
RIGHT ON BILDOG, These hate mongers, ala limbaugh, were the first to wash their hands of any responsibility in encouraging the type of action taken by the “Tuscon Twit”. Truth be known that this type of action, albeit not the gun violence, has been encouraged by limbaugh and his ilk since the election of Clinton. Their rhetoric encourages these type of people to become what the “Tucson Twit” became Saturday…a murderer. Let’s keep encouraging the limbaugh ilk to promote their type of hate mongering.
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
No, txmystic, it’s called the death penalty, something that has been around since the dawn of human government.
ray32648 over 13 years ago
^ And there’s a little inconvenience we have in America called a TRIAL that has to come between the accusation and the verdict.
Part of the environment that enabled this lunatic is the toxicity in the media, heavily weighted to the right wing. Another is the lapse of the gun control laws that allow 30 shot magazines to be purchased for hand guns. Finally there’s the social breakdown that hampers getting these folks on the RIGHT drugs to curb their insanity.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
Assault weapons are for nothing but mowing down people.
Brobst and Anthony, cut it out, seriously.
walruscarver2000 over 13 years ago
Good to see that all the grief we have experienced has resulted in such a “coming-together” of the right and left as illustrated here. And, yes, Seymour, that’s known as sarcasm.
yohannbiimu over 13 years ago
At least Oliphant isn’t irrationally suggesting who “pushed” the armed maniac, as the Washington Post, New York Times, and MSNBC have.
BTW, billdog–you have no idea what you are talking about. All I hear from mindless minions like you is that Limbaugh lies and is a purveyor of “hate speech,” and yet, I have YET to hear one word from them about WHAT he lies about, and WHAT “hate” he spews.
If anything, our country is doomed because it is filled with people (like you) who live by perceptions fed to you by the sorts of folks who are fueling the terrible event in Tuscon with unfounded politicized BUNK. If the country goes down in flames, it will be led by mindless goons who don’t have the slightest idea of what is going on, and that description identifies a LOT of folks who are blaming people who have NO connection whatsoever with Jared Loughner.
doofus55 over 13 years ago
The shooter was deranged…too bad the Arizona lawmakers are always trying to make it easier to get weapons of mass destruction…pistols aren’t for anything but killing people(Saturday Night Special, Lynyrd Skynrd), add a 30 round clip, and bingo! Doesn’t really matter who got this nit wit motivated, if all he had was ball point pens, a lot of people would be alive now.
N R A get a grip, you need to face reality….rifles(not assault weapons) and shotguns, fine…pistols should be closely regulated or banned outright.
This oughtta fire some freaks up (Republican types)
alan.gurka over 13 years ago
The answer is not in confiscating guns, but in not letting nut jobs buy guns in the first place. Better screening methods as part of the application for gun permit are required.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
This violence isn’t the fault of the Right or the Left.
The rhetoric is bad, regardless, but it isn’t the point here. If people were to actually look to this and say, well hmm, maybe we should tone it down a bit, then it would do some good, but the Right this, Left that stuff isn’t what caused this.
Josephus79 over 13 years ago
More sedition, the conduct and language resulting therefrom in attempt to disrupt civic government, rather than terrorism, which is an agency outside native soil seeking overthrow, but that’s if you want to split semantic hairs, that is. If, as Clinton said, if…
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
Jade, I sense you are taking a responsible approach here, but remember why this issue is so hot for us on the Right…Yahoo News blasted Palin’s picture on their front-page the next day after the shootings, the sheriff of Pima County blamed Rush Limbaugh, Bob Brady writing a bill (immediately!) targeting certain kinds of speech, etc…etc….we HAVE to defend our rights of free-speech because this situation has taken on a very strange life of its own!
altru1sticpervert over 13 years ago
Want some tasty Right Wing quotes, folks? Here’s your bloody evidence, old school style, courtesy of today’s Truthout.org article by Wm. Rivers Pitt:
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95“Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him.”
Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), talking about President Clinton“We’re going to keep building the party until we’re hunting Democrats with dogs.”
Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Mother Jones, 08-95“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02“We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.”
Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02“Chelsea is a Clinton. She bears the taint; and though not prosecutable in law, in custom and nature the taint cannot be ignored. All the great despotisms of the past - I’m not arguing for despotism as a principle, but they sure knew how to deal with potential trouble - recognized that the families of objectionable citizens were a continuing threat. In Stalin’s penal code it was a crime to be the wife or child of an ‘enemy of the people.’ The Nazis used the same principle, which they called Sippenhaft, ‘clan liability.’ In Imperial China, enemies of the state were punished ‘to the ninth degree’: that is, everyone in the offender’s own generation would be killed and everyone related via four generations up, to the great-great-grandparents, and four generations down, to the great-great-grandchildren, would also be killed.”
John Derbyshire, National Review, 02-15-01“Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity. The degree these two have diminished is in direct proportion to the corruption and fall of the nation. Every problem that has arisen (sic) can be directly traced back to our departure from God’s Law and the disenfranchisement of White men.”
State Rep. Don Davis (R-NC), emailed to every member of the North Carolina House and Senate, reported by the Fayetteville Observer, 08-22-01(SOURCE: http://www.truth-out.org/the-wrath-fools-an-open-letter-to-far-right66686)
There’s more if you want it – and all anyone has to do is go to O’Reilly or Savage for those.
Devolution is real, but it doesn’t have to STAY real.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
@HabaneroBuck - It’s stupid. Just like when the birds died people immediately started blaming DADT Repeal and Prop8 repeal and THAT was the first thing on the front pages, too, so it’s not like the Right’s not done the same even in recent days.
It irks me just as much that Palin is blamed for this. There’s no proof of that. About the only thing you can blame is the proliferation of assault weapons, because such things make it easy for one person to do this much damage before getting taken down.
dfowensby over 13 years ago
oh fer pityś sake. lawyers in the first pillar, lawyers infesting the second pillar, lawyer in the third, at last a release, a real Man of Action makes the fourth one. gawd help us. and the legis, judis, come before the exec. get it right, ding wad.
SmokyStover over 13 years ago
It’s no surprise. Anti-government people kill other people. Pro-government people do not kill people. Gun nuts kill people. Gun control advocates do not kill people.
steelerman66 over 13 years ago
guns knives swords spears bow and arrow big and small alike do not kill they have to be used by people other wise they just lay there
crazies have always been outthere and always will be
cant do anyting about that
pbarnrob over 13 years ago
All that aside; the Four Pillars were supposed to be CO-Equal, Legislative to make the laws, Executive to carry them out, Judiciary to resolve differences, - and The Press (outside of Government) to pry under rocks and hope to keep the other three honest!
The fourth pillar has been vacant for some time now, ever since the co-option of The Press by the Secret Police (that’s the ‘Intelligence Community’, several named and unknown offices, who infiltrate their agents as reporters to plant stories, which are picked up by other press and run as truth.)
BE the Press, in the Internet Age; BE the Peace you wish to see happen. But keep in mind, Sturgeon’s Law applies.
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
When Bush was President, I was told over and over if I disagreed with Bush, I should just leave the country.
I have not forgotten 8 years of that idiocy, and I think this tragedy is the time to get back at the people who really destroyed America.
The Republican loudmouths.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
^^ Interesting, because when Bush was President a major news organization going by something similar to Box Noos, and many leading Republicans said that being against the President in a time of war was unpatriotic.
Then the President became a Democrat.
jster51 over 13 years ago
@billdog Thanks for the link. Great article