It’s sad that Democrats considered Joe Crowley a high ranking Democrat because he was good at raising corporate bribes, but it’s heartening to know that politicians like him can still be defeated by candidates who actually listen to the concerns of the voters in their districts. Sorry, pro-corporate establishment Democrats. Your days of destroying the party are numbered. That will be the real “blue wave.”
Our binary political is dysfunctional/inadequate is that it suppresses viewpoints not just between parties but also within the parties and forces candidate to be dishonest about their intentions either during the primaries or during the general election … being honest/sincere can cost them the election. It seems dysfunctional by design. We don’t seem to have the correct incentives to have an honest, efficient/effective government. Is this what the founders wanted?
Nope, Pan’s correct. Voting for Bernie or Jill Stein was a terrible error unless you wanted trump to win. In our system, the reality is that there are only two parties. If one party’s candidate is not pure enough, voting for the fringe candidate is a vote for the opposite party. See, e.g., Ralph Nadar, Bernie Sanders.
Compromise is necessary, particularly within you own party. I sympathize with the progressive movement, but you need to get the power to push change legislatively and you need folks in the middle to vote for candidates who can get the tough job of legislating done.
I cannot see ever voting for a republican again. They have simply gone too far wrong in too many ways. (Hard to contemplate, but Nixon established the EPA and the Dept of Education.)
If you want real change from the regressive criminals in the Republican Party, voting Democratic is the only realistic choice. Voting overwhelmingly Democratic (at the local, state and federal level) and we, (ordinary citizens) can change the rules of the game. This is the way the far right Republican wing of regressives, (with the help of the Putin) have been able to inflict so much damage to our nation. They stuck together. Shamefully, but they still stuck together.
Don’t be childish and petulant. Be realistic and intelligent. You want to win. Then win. Don’t whine, organize. Don’t complain, work harder. Get out the vote. Show the regressives there are more of us, by far, than there are them. Win over the independent voters. Win over the former moderate republicans who have abandoned their party.
Win over the patriots who see through trump’s psychopathy. Even if they’ve never voted Democratic. There are lots of these people. They are waiting for the Democrats to appeal to them. Be progressive, but not stupid. First win. Win honestly and on merit. Overcome the toxicity of Citzens United. Overcome the gerrymandering. Capture the state houses and governors. Make the census rational and fair.
71% of Democrats, according to a recent reliable poll want a “new face” for 2020. We are aware that the DCCC and DNC are more interested in their own agendas and maintaining their control than in working for the middle class. The way the Democrats can win is to let Hillary run in the primaries and then be defeated by a young progressive candidate. Worked in 2008 & 2012. Against Trump, it would produce a landslide.
Sadly the most enthusiastic wing of each party is the M.A.G.A and the Sandernistas. Each are awful in their own way. They have no sense of pragmatism or compromise. They live in their own fantasy world. They do not accept that people are content with the ‘status quo’ nor embrace the uniqueness of the individual. They feel a need to dictate how people should live their lives. They blame others for all of their own problems. Credit to the Democratic Party for still having a viable center. The common sense wing of the GOP is long gone. Let’s hope the Democratic Establishment prevails or we are all doomed.
Based on the polls I see, on policies that is and not on candidates, if the Democratic Party were more left like Bernie Sanders there would be a tremendous chance to drag many more of the non voters to the polls to vote. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the entire country, there must be a reason. And nearly half of the registered voters never even bother to vote. They may not vote for any number of reasons of course, but a sizable number don’t vote because they hate both the Republicans and the Democrats.
For example, the Republican Party and the main body of the Democratic Party both hate the idea of Medicare for All, meanwhile the polls indicate that nearly two thirds of the country are in favor of it and most of those who are against it are against it because they don’t understand it. This is also true for many policies that have the largest part of the population in favor of them, while the Republican Party is dead set against them and the Corporate wing of the Democratic Party is also dead set against them.
If we had three parties instead of two I would expect their breakdown to be approximately 23% Republican, approximately 25% Democratic and approximately 49% hypothetical third party, call it the Progressive Party. In my view the Republicans have become ultra Right Wing nut jobs for the most part, with the Democratic Party moving right and taking the position formerly held by the Republicans, meanwhile the general population has been moving left and is mostly Progressive in their viewpoint.
What I think is happening is that people know, given the political set up of this country, there is no hope whatsoever for a third party to gain any serious foothold. Therefore, they have decided to take over the Democratic Party and push it left so it is more in line with what most people in the country actually want.
WestNYC, the Democratic establishment is exactly why the Republicans hold majorities. Progressives are discouraged from voting for corporate Dems that just give lip service to the people while continuing to bail out banks instead of homeowners, give up on single payer health care, get rich from insider trading, and cave at the slightest push from Repubs.
McConnell was pretty vulnerable in his last election but his Dem opponent Grimes just said things like “I love guns; I love coal”. Given a choice between two similar candidates, it seems pretty logical to keep the one that has more power to bring pork back for your state.
In Ocasio’s district, like in most House districts in the US these days, the primary is the important race because gerrymandering has rendered the general election a moot point most of the time. Most of the time the turnout for a primary election is minuscule. Apparently, this time a lot more interested people turned up to vote, and threw the race over to the socialist.
Most districts have been designed by gerrymandering to give one party or the other a lock on the seat. The substantial majority in Ocasio’s district is Democrat, so she’s going to win by a landslide.
Maybe we could try to solve problems without worrying so much about the labels. We need a good health insurance system that will cover everyone and bring down costs. The rest of the industrialized world has figured this out, why not look at their systems and take the best one? Who cares what it’s called. Just do it.
The Dems are and have been experiencing a civil war very similar to that what the GOP is going though.
Difference being that until the DNC got caught sticking the knife in Sanders’ back, it was mostly unreported. This split between center-left and socialist is not new and it is growing every day. While the “Ocasio Factor” may inspire some of the young Sanders base, it alienates the old core of the party that voted in large numbers for Trump.
As odd as it may sound, blue collar union families have very little use for the flavor of socialism being touted by Sanders and his followers.
The definition of socialism is that all means of production are owned and controlled by the state. This is civics 101. Anyone who calls what the progressives are advocating in medicare for all, decent schools, and a reasonable safety net apparently didn’t go to one of those decent schools.
rionmorrison69 over 5 years ago
They ain’t seen nuthin yet.
Jason Allen over 5 years ago
It’s sad that Democrats considered Joe Crowley a high ranking Democrat because he was good at raising corporate bribes, but it’s heartening to know that politicians like him can still be defeated by candidates who actually listen to the concerns of the voters in their districts. Sorry, pro-corporate establishment Democrats. Your days of destroying the party are numbered. That will be the real “blue wave.”
superposition over 5 years ago
Our binary political is dysfunctional/inadequate is that it suppresses viewpoints not just between parties but also within the parties and forces candidate to be dishonest about their intentions either during the primaries or during the general election … being honest/sincere can cost them the election. It seems dysfunctional by design. We don’t seem to have the correct incentives to have an honest, efficient/effective government. Is this what the founders wanted?
Radish the wordsmith over 5 years ago
Dems keep trying to be Republican lite, the people want to move to the left.
Masterskrain Premium Member over 5 years ago
She must be doing SOMETHING right, if the G.O.P. has resorted to PERSONAL ATTACKS on her…
twclix over 5 years ago
Nope, Pan’s correct. Voting for Bernie or Jill Stein was a terrible error unless you wanted trump to win. In our system, the reality is that there are only two parties. If one party’s candidate is not pure enough, voting for the fringe candidate is a vote for the opposite party. See, e.g., Ralph Nadar, Bernie Sanders.
Compromise is necessary, particularly within you own party. I sympathize with the progressive movement, but you need to get the power to push change legislatively and you need folks in the middle to vote for candidates who can get the tough job of legislating done.
I cannot see ever voting for a republican again. They have simply gone too far wrong in too many ways. (Hard to contemplate, but Nixon established the EPA and the Dept of Education.)
If you want real change from the regressive criminals in the Republican Party, voting Democratic is the only realistic choice. Voting overwhelmingly Democratic (at the local, state and federal level) and we, (ordinary citizens) can change the rules of the game. This is the way the far right Republican wing of regressives, (with the help of the Putin) have been able to inflict so much damage to our nation. They stuck together. Shamefully, but they still stuck together.
Don’t be childish and petulant. Be realistic and intelligent. You want to win. Then win. Don’t whine, organize. Don’t complain, work harder. Get out the vote. Show the regressives there are more of us, by far, than there are them. Win over the independent voters. Win over the former moderate republicans who have abandoned their party.
Win over the patriots who see through trump’s psychopathy. Even if they’ve never voted Democratic. There are lots of these people. They are waiting for the Democrats to appeal to them. Be progressive, but not stupid. First win. Win honestly and on merit. Overcome the toxicity of Citzens United. Overcome the gerrymandering. Capture the state houses and governors. Make the census rational and fair.
Diane Lee Premium Member over 5 years ago
71% of Democrats, according to a recent reliable poll want a “new face” for 2020. We are aware that the DCCC and DNC are more interested in their own agendas and maintaining their control than in working for the middle class. The way the Democrats can win is to let Hillary run in the primaries and then be defeated by a young progressive candidate. Worked in 2008 & 2012. Against Trump, it would produce a landslide.
WestNYC Premium Member over 5 years ago
Sadly the most enthusiastic wing of each party is the M.A.G.A and the Sandernistas. Each are awful in their own way. They have no sense of pragmatism or compromise. They live in their own fantasy world. They do not accept that people are content with the ‘status quo’ nor embrace the uniqueness of the individual. They feel a need to dictate how people should live their lives. They blame others for all of their own problems. Credit to the Democratic Party for still having a viable center. The common sense wing of the GOP is long gone. Let’s hope the Democratic Establishment prevails or we are all doomed.
Lyman Elliott Premium Member over 5 years ago
Based on the polls I see, on policies that is and not on candidates, if the Democratic Party were more left like Bernie Sanders there would be a tremendous chance to drag many more of the non voters to the polls to vote. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the entire country, there must be a reason. And nearly half of the registered voters never even bother to vote. They may not vote for any number of reasons of course, but a sizable number don’t vote because they hate both the Republicans and the Democrats.
For example, the Republican Party and the main body of the Democratic Party both hate the idea of Medicare for All, meanwhile the polls indicate that nearly two thirds of the country are in favor of it and most of those who are against it are against it because they don’t understand it. This is also true for many policies that have the largest part of the population in favor of them, while the Republican Party is dead set against them and the Corporate wing of the Democratic Party is also dead set against them.
If we had three parties instead of two I would expect their breakdown to be approximately 23% Republican, approximately 25% Democratic and approximately 49% hypothetical third party, call it the Progressive Party. In my view the Republicans have become ultra Right Wing nut jobs for the most part, with the Democratic Party moving right and taking the position formerly held by the Republicans, meanwhile the general population has been moving left and is mostly Progressive in their viewpoint.
What I think is happening is that people know, given the political set up of this country, there is no hope whatsoever for a third party to gain any serious foothold. Therefore, they have decided to take over the Democratic Party and push it left so it is more in line with what most people in the country actually want.
Nantucket Premium Member over 5 years ago
WestNYC, the Democratic establishment is exactly why the Republicans hold majorities. Progressives are discouraged from voting for corporate Dems that just give lip service to the people while continuing to bail out banks instead of homeowners, give up on single payer health care, get rich from insider trading, and cave at the slightest push from Repubs.
McConnell was pretty vulnerable in his last election but his Dem opponent Grimes just said things like “I love guns; I love coal”. Given a choice between two similar candidates, it seems pretty logical to keep the one that has more power to bring pork back for your state.
jvscanlan Premium Member over 5 years ago
Check the polls before you vote. No more ideological purity. Vote for the Democrat with best chance of winning or we’ll just continue the nightmare
john_chubb over 5 years ago
In Ocasio’s district, like in most House districts in the US these days, the primary is the important race because gerrymandering has rendered the general election a moot point most of the time. Most of the time the turnout for a primary election is minuscule. Apparently, this time a lot more interested people turned up to vote, and threw the race over to the socialist.
Most districts have been designed by gerrymandering to give one party or the other a lock on the seat. The substantial majority in Ocasio’s district is Democrat, so she’s going to win by a landslide.
lonecat over 5 years ago
Maybe we could try to solve problems without worrying so much about the labels. We need a good health insurance system that will cover everyone and bring down costs. The rest of the industrialized world has figured this out, why not look at their systems and take the best one? Who cares what it’s called. Just do it.
Andylit Premium Member over 5 years ago
The Dems are and have been experiencing a civil war very similar to that what the GOP is going though.
Difference being that until the DNC got caught sticking the knife in Sanders’ back, it was mostly unreported. This split between center-left and socialist is not new and it is growing every day. While the “Ocasio Factor” may inspire some of the young Sanders base, it alienates the old core of the party that voted in large numbers for Trump.
As odd as it may sound, blue collar union families have very little use for the flavor of socialism being touted by Sanders and his followers.
Diane Lee Premium Member over 5 years ago
The definition of socialism is that all means of production are owned and controlled by the state. This is civics 101. Anyone who calls what the progressives are advocating in medicare for all, decent schools, and a reasonable safety net apparently didn’t go to one of those decent schools.
stillinghast6 over 5 years ago
Pan.zagloba sounds completely unhinged.