On the South African fora I sometimes visit, I’m astonished to see how much support Mugabe has in South Africa!With approx. 3 million Zimbabweans that fled to South Africa (from a pop of 12,5 million; another 1,5 million fled to other neighbouring states), you’d think South Africans would be wary of the policies Mugabe has promoted.Don’t under estimate fiery rhetoric, populism and appeals to past grievances not yet resolved…(i.e. read land reform in South Africa).
Mugabe would fall tomorrow if South Africa withdrew its tacit support. It depends on SA for loans , energy, fuel, food…One cannot understand SA’s stance of non-intervention in Zimbabwe (except to prop it up) when it is attempting to raise its profile by intervening all over Africa (with some disastrous results eg. Central African Republic recently). South African Realpolitik. But what it is, escapes me. They know many in SA see him as a champion of the dispossessed?
There is also a reluctance by patriotic South Africans to criticise the AU and SADC because they are “ours”.Dammmit, if they’re not up to it, don’t give them our support!They rankle at the idea that the AU is sneered at but they won’t hold it accountable. They rankle at the West’s dominating influence over their affairs, trade etc but won’t admit China is dangerously becoming a neo-colonial power in Africa themselves. I object to the West’s undue influence but I also reject that China is better, that our leaders are above reproach. It’s been a generation since SA’s 1st free elections and it’s been 33 years since Zimbabwe’s independence in 1980. How Mugabe manages to twist its recent misfortunes & downfall to British interference, and is believed, is beyond me. More, why many South Africans buy into Mugabe’s excuses and don’t see his rhetoric as simply a ploy to remain popular; it’s nuts.
Do you know there are people, apart from the obvious thugs who benefit directly from the regime, actually defending this creep?Crazy.
What utter claptrap. You have no idea about the power-sharing government, between MDC’s Tsvangirai as Prime Minister, and Mugabe as President, that was in place until last week’s elections. Any aid provided to Zimbabwe by most donor nations purposefully by-passed Mugabe and went directly to Zimbabweans. Obama met Tsvangirai, who visited the USA as PM a few years ago, not Mugabe.
I wonder how any aid, aimed at supporting Zimbabweans, will now actually reach them without Tsvangirai & the MDC part of the government. Hopefully the NGOs in Zim have channels set up that won’t be disrupted. Don’t expect too much help from Zuma, South Africa’s president.
I’m learning interesting things about the undercurrent opinion in South Africa by reading what is being said in their press and fora about Zimbabwe’s elections last week.
Zimbabwe has focused me onto a few things in South Africa which I was only marginally aware of and much of which I had simply disregarded as being a disaffected minority view. I’m limited by being overseas. I don’t know enough about what many black South Africans feel & think. I was astonished by what II read. These elections have made me realise just how much I’m in a protective bubble by only being exposed to middle-class, black or white, South African views…
Anyway, interesting times. Hopefully the ANC is realising it must be held accountable. My initial euphoria about Agang as a new political force in SA is being knocked down a few notches as I learn more about its strengths & weaknesses, as well as why it struggles to gain support.
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe, I’m curious to see what emerges. I’m especially interested in how other African countries react and act. The AU & SADC…hmmmI also think South Africa, under the ANC, has shown poor leadership as a regional player. It’s fast losing any regard amongst Sub-Saharan countries.
Mugabe is 89. There is a power-struggle behind the scenes within his ZANU-PF party. Perhaps Zimbabweans are just waiting for nature to take its course.
There are many rumours about his health, his medical visits overseas to Singapore & Malaysia and his memory lapses.5 years ago, during the previous elections in ‘08, I had read he had become just a figurehead for a cartel of shadowy figures within the Zanu-PF party, that his mental acumen was already slipping. 5 years on and he seems much the same. I don’t think he is insane, I don’t think he is demented, memory lapses notwithstanding; I’d say he’s fairly sharp, if you don’t think the megalomania as not being indicative of insanity. There are quite a few posters on this forum who are in their 80s so I wouldn’t discount mental agility (that’s just plain ol’ ageism). But Mugabe is physically frailer. I don’t see how he can last another 5 years in office. Probably not the intent anyway. He’s just a means to consolidate power for his clique.They pull the strings. There are about 10 core members of this clique against whom international sanctions are applied, another 60 or so had restrictions against them as well until last March (lifted because Zimbabwe approved a new constitution. So much for that btw).I’m curious to see how they’ll manage the country seeing as they will surely get rid of the technocrats the MDC put in place to run crucial ministries. They’d managed to get Zimbabwe moving along despite crippling economic conditions 5 years ago.I don’t see new investment now coming into Zimbabwe, so easy to foresee tougher economic times for Zimbabwe.
OmqR-IV.0 over 10 years ago
On the South African fora I sometimes visit, I’m astonished to see how much support Mugabe has in South Africa!With approx. 3 million Zimbabweans that fled to South Africa (from a pop of 12,5 million; another 1,5 million fled to other neighbouring states), you’d think South Africans would be wary of the policies Mugabe has promoted.Don’t under estimate fiery rhetoric, populism and appeals to past grievances not yet resolved…(i.e. read land reform in South Africa).
Mugabe would fall tomorrow if South Africa withdrew its tacit support. It depends on SA for loans , energy, fuel, food…One cannot understand SA’s stance of non-intervention in Zimbabwe (except to prop it up) when it is attempting to raise its profile by intervening all over Africa (with some disastrous results eg. Central African Republic recently). South African Realpolitik. But what it is, escapes me. They know many in SA see him as a champion of the dispossessed?
There is also a reluctance by patriotic South Africans to criticise the AU and SADC because they are “ours”.Dammmit, if they’re not up to it, don’t give them our support!They rankle at the idea that the AU is sneered at but they won’t hold it accountable. They rankle at the West’s dominating influence over their affairs, trade etc but won’t admit China is dangerously becoming a neo-colonial power in Africa themselves. I object to the West’s undue influence but I also reject that China is better, that our leaders are above reproach. It’s been a generation since SA’s 1st free elections and it’s been 33 years since Zimbabwe’s independence in 1980. How Mugabe manages to twist its recent misfortunes & downfall to British interference, and is believed, is beyond me. More, why many South Africans buy into Mugabe’s excuses and don’t see his rhetoric as simply a ploy to remain popular; it’s nuts.
Do you know there are people, apart from the obvious thugs who benefit directly from the regime, actually defending this creep?Crazy.
jimguess over 10 years ago
We need a Thumbs UP capability. VERY informative post, omQ R!
Thank you!
braindead Premium Member over 10 years ago
I knew a Republican/Fox “news” viewer would morph a totally unrelated issue into hatred for Obama.=Thanks for not disappointing.
OmqR-IV.0 over 10 years ago
What utter claptrap. You have no idea about the power-sharing government, between MDC’s Tsvangirai as Prime Minister, and Mugabe as President, that was in place until last week’s elections. Any aid provided to Zimbabwe by most donor nations purposefully by-passed Mugabe and went directly to Zimbabweans. Obama met Tsvangirai, who visited the USA as PM a few years ago, not Mugabe.
I wonder how any aid, aimed at supporting Zimbabweans, will now actually reach them without Tsvangirai & the MDC part of the government. Hopefully the NGOs in Zim have channels set up that won’t be disrupted. Don’t expect too much help from Zuma, South Africa’s president.
OmqR-IV.0 over 10 years ago
@ Jim G, @pirate
I’m learning interesting things about the undercurrent opinion in South Africa by reading what is being said in their press and fora about Zimbabwe’s elections last week.
Zimbabwe has focused me onto a few things in South Africa which I was only marginally aware of and much of which I had simply disregarded as being a disaffected minority view. I’m limited by being overseas. I don’t know enough about what many black South Africans feel & think. I was astonished by what II read. These elections have made me realise just how much I’m in a protective bubble by only being exposed to middle-class, black or white, South African views…
Anyway, interesting times. Hopefully the ANC is realising it must be held accountable. My initial euphoria about Agang as a new political force in SA is being knocked down a few notches as I learn more about its strengths & weaknesses, as well as why it struggles to gain support.
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe, I’m curious to see what emerges. I’m especially interested in how other African countries react and act. The AU & SADC…hmmmI also think South Africa, under the ANC, has shown poor leadership as a regional player. It’s fast losing any regard amongst Sub-Saharan countries.
Mugabe is 89. There is a power-struggle behind the scenes within his ZANU-PF party. Perhaps Zimbabweans are just waiting for nature to take its course.
OmqR-IV.0 over 10 years ago
There are many rumours about his health, his medical visits overseas to Singapore & Malaysia and his memory lapses.5 years ago, during the previous elections in ‘08, I had read he had become just a figurehead for a cartel of shadowy figures within the Zanu-PF party, that his mental acumen was already slipping. 5 years on and he seems much the same. I don’t think he is insane, I don’t think he is demented, memory lapses notwithstanding; I’d say he’s fairly sharp, if you don’t think the megalomania as not being indicative of insanity. There are quite a few posters on this forum who are in their 80s so I wouldn’t discount mental agility (that’s just plain ol’ ageism). But Mugabe is physically frailer. I don’t see how he can last another 5 years in office. Probably not the intent anyway. He’s just a means to consolidate power for his clique.They pull the strings. There are about 10 core members of this clique against whom international sanctions are applied, another 60 or so had restrictions against them as well until last March (lifted because Zimbabwe approved a new constitution. So much for that btw).I’m curious to see how they’ll manage the country seeing as they will surely get rid of the technocrats the MDC put in place to run crucial ministries. They’d managed to get Zimbabwe moving along despite crippling economic conditions 5 years ago.I don’t see new investment now coming into Zimbabwe, so easy to foresee tougher economic times for Zimbabwe.