Mike Luckovich for April 19, 2013

This country started as a Federation, not a democracy. Democracy eats itself as voters vote for the candidate who offers them the most money. We’ll go the same way as the Romans.

We’ve always been a republic. The Romans weren’t a democracy either.

Apparently according to Mike (and probably other Kool Aid lovin’ leftys) the constitution IS the enemy to their version of “democracy” where the benevolence of the government is paramount.

A terrorist on the loose and people should sit unarmed waiting for a knock on the door?

Don’t people ever tire of equating background checks with confiscation? I know I’m tired of seeing it.

@Echoraven. You say “Lefty’s” believe “the constitution IS the enemy to their version of “democracy” where the benevolence of the government is paramount.”. What foolishness. What is in question is the INTERPRETATION of the constitution. (I for one do not consider the average person to be part of a “militia”). Furthermore, our government is by the people, for the people. All voting Americans are The Government, and the majority of the people want background checks. The senators failed the people they represent.

I have to take issue with this cartoon.

The left points at their polls and says “Look X% of the population want sensible gun control laws” and then scream that democracy has been subverted if they aren’t able to get any legislation they want.

If you ask the question: Should we keep guns out of the hands of criminals or the insane – Everyone will agree.But that doesn’t mean that 95% agree that the only solution is to take away second amendment rights from everyone.

Grow up Leftists – Many of us are more afraid of YOU and your willingness to give up freedom for personal security then we are of our neighbor getting a gun.

If you want to feel more safe and secure in your person – I recommend sitting down with your neighbors and inviting them to lunch. Develop a sense of community. Then, when you see your neighbor go outside with a gun you will have a pretty good idea what he is going to do with it. My neighbors hunt all the time. When they step out their door with a gun I assume they are going to go hunting or target practicing.

Democracy hasn’t been subverted. Democracy has been asserted when stupidly restrictive laws aren’t able to gain traction. This is an affirmation of the political process even though YOU didn’t get what YOU wanted.

Safe for whom? Serial killers? Mass murderers? Armed domestic abusers? Lunatics with semiautomatic weapons?

54% is “little democratic support?”

so a bad bill is better than no bill ?

Gore Bane: You can’t (or won’t) tell the difference between democracy and polyarchy. Polyarchyy (rue of the many) is the one with majority rule. Democracy has set limits on the power of both the majority and minority. If you can’t handle English, use another language.

@SFLoridan – Well here I am and let’s see if I can speak to each of your issues without being derogatory or making you feel like I “shouted you down”.

First – To be clear – Leftist isn’t any more pjorative then right wing. It is a short cut (perhaps poor) for progressive vs. conservative or government trusting vs. government distrusting. But I’ll try to avoid the usage

Those leftist (your quote) neighbors of mine (I don’t have many because I live in the rural midwest) have been invited to my home. We have broken bread and talked about politics, child rearing, and the weather. I don’t agree with all of their positions (except maybe about the weather) but I don’t live in a sound chamber where all my friends echo back the same position as me.

And contrary to what you are saying – This wasn’t a vote to open up discussion between sober minded groups. This was a vote to create another set of hurdles to be surmounted by anyone that wanted to buy a gun.

I don’t think it is possible to shout people down on an open written forum because my voicing my opinion in no way deprives you of your voice. We can post at the exact same time and everyone gets to hear what both of us say. I write well, or so I’m told, so perhaps I articulate my position better then some others. I won’t apologize for that nor will I apologize for my belief that I shouldn’t give up any of my freedoms so that somebody, somewhere else, can feel safer because that isn’t what freedom is about.

I reread my post – aside from leftist the only term I used that I think could be considered derogatory was stupidly restrictive (which referred to the bill not any individual) though I guess by association you can say that it implies that the author was stupid as well – If it will make you feel better I apologize for using an ambiguous enhancer and ask you to substitue incredibly for stupidly.

I do not deny that evil minded men exist, Boston is suffering from that right now. But that doesn’t mean that the majority of the US is willing to give up their freedoms.

You may be right. You may have the majority behind you for this legislation. Next election will show that if you are. But politicians are afraid to vote against the NRA because many have been burned in the past for doing so. The real, voting majority came out and voted them out of office.

The NRA is people, not some monolithic unaccountable machine. It answers to its members (and they are legion). It gets its money from it’s members. It represents, in the political world, its members.

One last point – I don’t own a gun except a pellet gun for rats in the barn. I don’t plan on buying one in the future. So this legislation isn’t about guns for me. It’s about freedom. It’s about the Federal government creating work for itself by trying to do something is has no business doing. If you don’t like guns in the hands of people – work on it in your state. See if you can convince your state legislature to take guns away from people. But to me your advocacy looks like an attempt to push your ideas and your beliefs on the rest of the country. Why don’t you legislate against disturbed individuals and insanity instead. I don’t see you out trying to strengthen the laws that track and incarcerate the insane.I also don’t hear anyone calling for the end to pressure cookers (used in the bombings in Boston).

As JUSTICE SCALIA pointed out in “Heller vs D.C.”, REGULATION does NOT deny or “infringe” on the rights of the Second Amendment. Some folks are just incapable of paying attention to FACTS!

“There is little democratic support for gay marriage?”What polls have you been reading?

@Gary – You are wrong about guns and pressure cookers (well maybe not the pressure cookers). But I use a pellet gun to kill rats in my barn because I don’t want them eating my grain or killing my chickens. My neighbors hunt ducks and deer with their guns to put food on the table. There are plenty of reasons to own a gun beyond wanting to kill your neighbor.

As to legislating against insanity. I speak directly to guys like Lanza and that joker in Colorado. Everytime a shooting like this occurs we find that somebody knew. There were plenty of warnings before they touched off. Reagan opened up the mental institutions in the 80s and dumped a lot of institutionalized people on the street. I’m suggesting we should be more judicious about studying people with mental health issues. If the guy at Sandy hook had used a meat cleaver (as happened in China) would you advocate for the removal of knives and other sharp objects from all citizens. The problem is that people who don’t like or want guns around will use every one of these opporutnities to say see…see….this is why everyone should give up their freedoms and think like me. And even though they don’t think like me they should have to live like me. That’s not freedom. There are risks associated with freedom but they can be mitigated with other measures.

You see the Federal government as a great way to enforce your beliefs and ideas on the rest of us. I see the Federal government with limited powers to provide Defense, and to manage interstate commerce. The whole world doesn’t look like your neighborhood. Try to find a solution to the problem that takes the least amount of effort and puts the least burden on citizens.

If a young lady texts and drives and runs into a busload of children (an obvious tragedy) there are several legislative approaches that could be taken: 1) Nothing – not my preferred method but you could say oh dear that was tragic but there is nothing we can do about it, 2) You could outlaw texting and driving, 3) You could take away cell phones from everyone but professionals, 4) You could take away cars because not everyone needs it, 5) You could require all school busses to carry 3 tons of armor to protect the children, etc.

I and apparently the NRA am suggesting that you are reaching for the ludicrous solution when there are less invasive solutions that should be tried first. And 46% of the Senate agrees with me. Almost nothing passes the senate without a 60% vote any more. That’s a good thing. It slows down the Federal government in it’s endless drive to restrict the freedoms and rights of honest taxpaying citizens.

“We have a representative republic to protect us from the overreactive tyranny of the majority.”Except when that majority agrees with so called conservatives on such things as banning gay marriage. Then it’s all about the will of the majority.

Mephistopholes,What a wonderful and logical response. Thank you

@Gary – I’m sorry if I misquoted you. Wow aren’t you hypersensitive to the exact quote of your words. What I heard (apparently incorrectly) was that you couldn’t think of a constructive reason to own a gun and I gave it to you.

Read my previous post about why the NRA commands so much respect in congress. Many (mostly Democrats) lost their seats in congress because they voted for an assault weapon ban. These are smart guys and gals. They can read polls better then you or I. They know what the VOTING majority will think of them if they start heaping on extra unnecessary laws. I pointed out the 46% to illustrate that your opinion isn’t as widely shared as you might think.

I could use the same argument to background checks on guns for Driver’s licenses, dog ownership, the right to bear and raise children, etc. You, and the people that agree with you keep telling everyone how reasonable and rational your position is when there are far more dangerous threats out there that you don’t think the government should control.

The parents that raise and teach their kids to hate are far more dangerous then me and my pellet gun but you aren’t decrying the unbridled right of every person of childbearing years to be able to reproduce.

I understand that you think you are morally right in your stance that guns need to be controlled to keep you safe. Thankfully you are in the minority for right now. Because I’m pretty sure that if you get your way on gun control you will move on to taking some other freedom away from others so that YOU can feel safe.

Yes Guns are used to commit crimes, so are knives, pressure cookers, cars, penises, cameras, pens, and a whole host of other commonly used items with benign uses as well. Guns are a hotbutton because many people don’t own one and as long as it isn’t their ox being gored they don’t see any problem with taking it away from someone else.

Still the greater issue is Freedom. Freedom from tyranny from the Federal Government and Freedom from tyranny from our neighbors. Freedom to be safe in our persons and our activities as long as we don’t trod on the Freedoms of others. When crimes are committed with any device we prosecute the criminal. We should still do that. I’m even fine with making the penalties more severe when it is committed with a gun. But the crime isn’t in gun ownership, the crime is in the violence committed with it.

Ask the people robbed of their life savings by Bernie Maddoff with a computer and a pen what they fear more: Guns or computers? Are you advocating for the government’s control of computers? Maybe every 8 year old should be forced to go through a background check before they get their first NOOK.

Gee Spooky – Now I feel all bad about what I wrote because it made you cross.

Why is the senate cowardly and corrupt only when they don’t agree with you?

Your ownership of a gun doesn’t make you any more qualified to speak about the freedom to own a gun. Good for you. You own one but it doesn’t matter because I’m talking about freedom.

For what it’s worth, I wasn’t very pro government under scoundrels like Bush and Chenny (I never can remember how to spell that evil bastard’s name) then I was under Obama. I think Obama’s heart is in the right place but I still won’t happily give up my freedoms.

Now you consider me unreasonable merely for not agreeing with your less then cogent argument that freedoms should be taken away from people because YOU don’t trust them with dangerous objects. As though the Federal government is your own personal way of making the world safer for you.

You said you would use a gun if you had too. I’m going to assume that is a self defense argument – yet another reason I want my neighbors to be able to buy guns if they need one without waiting months for the criminal background check to pass. Defending your home, hunting, and the joy of target shooting (for some) are all non-criminal uses UNTIL angry paranoid people try to lobby to have those pass times outlawed.

My Avatar is Lucifer from the Old Battlestar Galactica series. A fairly inept yet comical 2 brain Cylon (I believe they were IG-88 series) and the voice was that of Dr. Smith from Lost in Space. Hardly the sinister villian you make him out to be. But that is the joke of using Mephistopeles as my name. Watch some of the Episodes and you will see that Lucifer was scheming all the time but rarely successful.

I’m going to let you have the wish that I be left in the dust. For now it looks like your dreams of a paternalistic nanny state have been left in the dust. But I’m not so foolish as to think the liberal left will not come up with some other ploy to take away my freedoms.

The senate was intentionally designed to be slow and deliberative and to keep the majority from trodding on the rights of the minority. It has done it’s job today. I will sleep just fine tonight. You on the other hand will probably be tormented by your paranoia. How do you know there won’t be a gunmen at the supermarket tomorrow when you go to pick up bread and milk?

Sleep well friend.

@Uncle Joe – I love that picture. Crazy kids :)

the second amendment still says a “well regulated militia” the NRA is neither regulated or a militia and neither are 90% of gun owners including me.

so gary william a person i know agrees with you and he incorp a not for profit militia and is awaiting his tax exempt clearances so give a lawyer $500 and you are “well regulated”

@all – for those of you who are better Galactica fans then me. A friend told me Lucifer was of the IL-88 series.

Oh by all means McSpook. See how far an amending the constitution to eliminate the 2nd amendment will get you.

The NRA is just a group of ordinary citizens pooling their resources to lobby the government to protect their rights. They are rights until you manage to take them away. No different then any other group – AARP comes to mind.

I guess what you really want is to deprive groups of their right to lobby together.

Freedom!!!!

Hey Liberals, We’ve moved up from “Lib-tards” to “frickken libbers.”But, sadly, “trolls” are still just “trolls.”

Wow, what a vulgar and below the belt crack.And you invoke God into your arguments? You shouldn’t, I doubt he would desire your endorsement.

word.

Hey Lukovich, did you forget…… or better yet………..not even know that the USA is not a democracy, but a REPUBLIC? Perhaps you in all your libtard wisdom should look that up before you go drawing your stupidity.

Also, even though your hero obama said….uh…lied….that 90% of the people were for gun control, perhaps you should check your stats. The reason so many congressmen voted against it was because their constituients contacted them and told them NOT to vote for it.

Yeah, it sucks when your leftest, socialist agend hits roadblocks and stops doesn’t it? Idiot.

I was educated 50 years ago that the USA was a Democratic Republic, but Representative Democracy is acceptable. BTW, I live in the Idaho sticks and guns and rifles are used for more than killing. There has been cause for defense too since it takes some time for the cops to arrive.

“Yet you want to abolish the 2nd Amendment”And you want to horribly murder every grandmother on the planet. There, now we both stated something stupid and untrue.

“It still says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed”A statement which is still preceded with “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.”

“So, you want to disarm Police Officers? They have guns to kill the people who have guns and want to kill you”When or where did I say anything like that?I know you right-wing types are not terribly literate, but show me anything I’ve written suggesting ANYTHING like that.There’s no limit to what you clowns will say to support your own feeble positions, regardless of it’s truthfulness (or total and complete lack of).

Wow, you found a page to support your POV. And because it’s on the ‘net we KNOW that it’s accurate and true.The internet is like an electronic bathroom stall;the postings on both are equally likely to be true, and the smell is about the same.