On this one, they is plenty of xenophobia and anti-immigration sentiment on both left and right. Only a few libertarians, true libertarians, want open borders. Only a few people want complete amnesty for all U.S. residents. Almost everyone want more secure borders. The questions are about what those who are here illegally have to do or suffer to put themselves right with the laws, and what those who want to come here have to do to get and stay here legally. If you violate the traffic laws, such as speed limits, you are not barred forever from using the public roads, and don’t have your license revoked for life. Yet some anti-illegal-immigration folks make arguments that are just like someone saying “What part of illegal do you not understand? Any system of penalties that allows those who have violated the rules of the road to remain on the roads is just amnesty!! You passed the speed limit illegally, you have no right to use the roads!” The plan being put forward by Rubio et al. may be harsher than some would like, and easier than some would like, but it is a step in the right direction. And by the way, the net illegal immigration at present is essentially zero because of the depressed economy. And actual research has demonstrated that illegal immigrants on the whole contribute more in taxes than they consume in taxpayer resources. Of course there are rotten apples among them, but on the whole the country has benefited by these people being here, and most want nothing more than the opportunity to be good citizens.
The conservatives’ arguments against immigration reform would make more sense if (a) we didn’t desperately need these workers to do jobs that Americans aren’t doing, and (b) if were even possible to immigrate legally, which it isn’t for many of these workers.
We need to make it easier for legal immigrants to qualify for citizenship. Meanwhile, we’ve spent millions on the virtual fence, and the coyotes have even built ramps to drive vehicles up and over (not always successfully). Build a ten foot wall, and someone will build an eleven foot ladder.
“The center, unlike the left, actually thinks there SHOULD be a fence.”Funny how the so called capitalists ignore the laws of supply and demand. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. Fence or no fence, they will find a way to sneak across the boarder as long as companies continue to hire them. Crack down on the businesses willfully employing illegal immigrants. When the demand for their labor drops, fewer people will try to cross the boarder.
The GOP has reluctantly decided that if they can’t gather them up and kick them out, or at least stop them from voting, they’re going to have to “tolerate” them, “accept” them, even (shudder) “like” them. But they’d rather not.
The fences worked so welll for the East Germans and Soviets. Of course they were designed to keep people in. How well has it worked for the Israelis at keeping rockets and jihadists out of the gaza strip?
A lot of people seem to be ignorant about the present law. If you have overstayed your visa, and are caught, you have to return to your country of origin. You cannot even APPLY for a new visa for TEN years. This is not like being asked to leave the movie theater you sneaked into, and buy a ticket.
¿Oye pendejo tu tienes puebra that people without papers are voting in Federal Elections? ¡You probably do not and are just saying that out of racismo cabron! All you racist say these stupid things but you can never prove them.
The “Iron curtain” was not just in Germany or Berlin where they had the wall. The Border Patrol does use drones for surveillance. They are not armed to kill the boy returning from a visit to his girlfriend in Mexico. (It happens)
Justice22: There us no need to use drones. The US Marines have already killed a US citizen tending his goats before school. We have the capability and experience to kill anyone – no questions asked before and very few after.
ConserveGov almost 11 years ago
The center, unlike the left, actually thinks there SHOULD be a fence. I know this is news to Tommy Trolls and the other lefty media types.
Doughfoot almost 11 years ago
On this one, they is plenty of xenophobia and anti-immigration sentiment on both left and right. Only a few libertarians, true libertarians, want open borders. Only a few people want complete amnesty for all U.S. residents. Almost everyone want more secure borders. The questions are about what those who are here illegally have to do or suffer to put themselves right with the laws, and what those who want to come here have to do to get and stay here legally. If you violate the traffic laws, such as speed limits, you are not barred forever from using the public roads, and don’t have your license revoked for life. Yet some anti-illegal-immigration folks make arguments that are just like someone saying “What part of illegal do you not understand? Any system of penalties that allows those who have violated the rules of the road to remain on the roads is just amnesty!! You passed the speed limit illegally, you have no right to use the roads!” The plan being put forward by Rubio et al. may be harsher than some would like, and easier than some would like, but it is a step in the right direction. And by the way, the net illegal immigration at present is essentially zero because of the depressed economy. And actual research has demonstrated that illegal immigrants on the whole contribute more in taxes than they consume in taxpayer resources. Of course there are rotten apples among them, but on the whole the country has benefited by these people being here, and most want nothing more than the opportunity to be good citizens.
ARodney almost 11 years ago
The conservatives’ arguments against immigration reform would make more sense if (a) we didn’t desperately need these workers to do jobs that Americans aren’t doing, and (b) if were even possible to immigrate legally, which it isn’t for many of these workers.
edward thomas Premium Member almost 11 years ago
A big part of the problem is that Mexico won’t close it’s OWN southern border, and just pipes those Central American immigrants right on through.
edward thomas Premium Member almost 11 years ago
We need to make it easier for legal immigrants to qualify for citizenship. Meanwhile, we’ve spent millions on the virtual fence, and the coyotes have even built ramps to drive vehicles up and over (not always successfully). Build a ten foot wall, and someone will build an eleven foot ladder.
Jason Allen almost 11 years ago
“The center, unlike the left, actually thinks there SHOULD be a fence.”Funny how the so called capitalists ignore the laws of supply and demand. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. Fence or no fence, they will find a way to sneak across the boarder as long as companies continue to hire them. Crack down on the businesses willfully employing illegal immigrants. When the demand for their labor drops, fewer people will try to cross the boarder.
krisjackson01 almost 11 years ago
The GOP has reluctantly decided that if they can’t gather them up and kick them out, or at least stop them from voting, they’re going to have to “tolerate” them, “accept” them, even (shudder) “like” them. But they’d rather not.
Rickapolis almost 11 years ago
I have it from some of the wingnuts that they plan to move into the 20th century in the next generation or two. Maybe.
Justice22 almost 11 years ago
The fences worked so welll for the East Germans and Soviets. Of course they were designed to keep people in. How well has it worked for the Israelis at keeping rockets and jihadists out of the gaza strip?
hippogriff almost 11 years ago
Bush’s wall and Zoid’s land mines proved their failure in 1989 in Europe
neatslob Premium Member almost 11 years ago
Well, Rubio is so far from center he’d need a telescope to see it.
Doughfoot almost 11 years ago
A lot of people seem to be ignorant about the present law. If you have overstayed your visa, and are caught, you have to return to your country of origin. You cannot even APPLY for a new visa for TEN years. This is not like being asked to leave the movie theater you sneaked into, and buy a ticket.
TruthfulTheocracy almost 11 years ago
¿Oye pendejo tu tienes puebra that people without papers are voting in Federal Elections? ¡You probably do not and are just saying that out of racismo cabron! All you racist say these stupid things but you can never prove them.
Justice22 almost 11 years ago
The “Iron curtain” was not just in Germany or Berlin where they had the wall. The Border Patrol does use drones for surveillance. They are not armed to kill the boy returning from a visit to his girlfriend in Mexico. (It happens)
hippogriff almost 11 years ago
Justice22: There us no need to use drones. The US Marines have already killed a US citizen tending his goats before school. We have the capability and experience to kill anyone – no questions asked before and very few after.