The cartoonist is irrationally comparing Abstract Personifications with the reality of human lives and emotions. It’s not an argument, it’s not even relevant, no matter what side of the argument you take.
What he means that liberty and justice are best served by enshrining… well that depends on your point of view.
Good cartoon, Toles! You brought out the trolls making bigoted and irrational comments, and undermining what little appeal conservatism has in the modern age.
“It’s gay men that are “icky.” Lesbians are ok. Two chicks kissing is hot!”That’s highly subjective. I personally find it gross. But then I find it gross when even one woman is involved in anything sexual.
If you just look around at the world without making any judgments to start with, what you see is a very complicated world of gender. When I was a kid, back in the middle ages, I didn’t know a single person who was an admitted gay. Of course there were just as many gay people, but they didn’t let on. Then gradually it became more acceptable to admit you were gay, and in the 80s and 90s, there was the phenomenon of “coming out of the closet”. A fair number of people who had been in heterosexual marriages got divorced and formed same-sex partnerships. (The current Premier of Ontario is an example.) Clearly many of these people would never have entered into a heterosexual marriage if they had been able to enter into same-sex marriage.+Then there were people who said, Hey, I’m not quite happy with the whole binary division of genders, anyway. Some were bisexual, some were transgendered, and so on. There’s a philosophy professor where I work, male, who regularly dresses as a woman and uses the women’s bathroom. I was at a party last weekend and there were several transgender people there. I don’t know if they are planning to have sex-change operations or not (somehow I didn’t feel like asking). It’s clear to me that there is a huge variety of feelings about gender, and these were always there, just not expressed.+Me, I’m heterosexual and pretty ordinary about it, but I have to respect what other people are. It’s actually quite fascinating to see the world of (social) gender change so radically in such a short time. I just hope that everyone can find a way to be happy being what they are. If no one is harmed, what’s the problem?
“Who is stopping them?”Biggots and state/federal laws are stopping them.“Isn’t there 10 states that allow anyone to marry anyone else?”No state allows a person to marry “anyone else.” There are states that allow gay marriage, but they still require both partners to be consenting adults.
Why can’t we have our Texans be more like the fun-loving guys on Discovery Channel’s “Fast N Loud” and less like the “PlanoGuy24” commenter on these pages?
Read what I wrote, please: when a transgender or a transvestite uses the women’s toilet, they make people uncomfortable, women glare at them and people may complain. When they use the men’s toilet, they make people uncomfortable, men glare at them, and they *often get beaten up. *
I, as a woman, say yes they can as far as I’m concerned, on the basis that physical safety trumps mental discomfort.
When the average male gets over whatever bee lives in his bonnet that tells him its ok to beat someone up if that person makes him uncomfortable, then we can discuss what the new practical solution is.
A tradition, once belonging only to the lords, many of whom took “the lord’s privilege” of the first night with his serf’’s new wife once peasants were allowed to be married. Marriage was ordained to establish genetic purity (religious), to seal treaties between nations (governmental), or to seal contracts (mercantile). Since most lower classes did not “marry”, but decided to live together, we have the term “common law marriage”, i.e. seen as equal to marriage. If marriage was truly for procreation, as many say, then the senior citizens who marry in their 70s would be prohibited, not celebrated. The Anglican Church was established because Henry VIII was disappointed he could not have a male heir by his wife. He was able to obtain an annulment from the Pope the first time, but rebelled when the Pope refused a second one. He then broke from Catholicism and established his church. Really a great way to uphold “holy matrimony”!
“Amazing the contortions Dem Libs will go through to destroy a tradition whose main beneficiary is Children”Lucky for the nation that Justice Kennedy understands the situation much better than you do.
Depends on where and when; I support the right of schools, courtrooms and businesses to set their own rules, too, on the basis of them having their own safety concerns.
if 2 or more competent adults want to hook up that is their business but what i object to is they expecting me to subsidize them. the 1st case bho decide not to enforce doma was a case involving inheritance tax on the estate of a donor
^This is not a state by state issue, Tig. I do think the court will either defer a few years, waiting for a better case (no standing), or decide the correct way.
What a completely appropriate use of symbolism, and beautiful sentiment mr. toles. I applaud you!
“These symbols of America shouldn’t be used like this. You’re a sick person, Toles…”how sad for you, mister pianoguy. where there is beauty, you can see only uglyness.
“Our Government was founded on Christian Principles.”Amazing. Even after I predicted a rightie would say this, trying to save them the effort, Tigger comes along, right on cue.So give us the biblical source for our three-part government with checks and balances, Tigger. A limited federal government with individual states? How about our freedom of religion…where in the bible does that come from?I’m not even going to touch “Deceleration”!
“The SCOTUS will rule this is a State by State issue”So what happens when a married gay couple tours the country, Tigger? Do they become unmarried in this state, then married again in that state, then unmarried again…?
Tigger, have you ever read the actual text of the Constitution? If so, what do you think of this sentence: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. "
“on the basis that physical safety trumps mental discomfort.”————So then you agree that it’s okay for a law-abiding citizen to visibly carry a gun.
I can’t do that. Personally, when someone carries a gun, physical safety is the very last thing that comes to mind. I know that someone who I know nothing about (and who knows nothing about me) has the means to make me dead in an instant. This, to me, is not physical safety. I remove myself from the immediate area as soon as practical.
“Amazing the contortions Dem Libs will go through to destroy a tradition whose main beneficiary is Children…”Expanding the tradition isn’t destroying it. If the people opposing same sex marriage want to defend their idea of the tradition, why don’t you try & pass some laws that make extra-marital sex illegal? Pass some laws requiring men & women to marry if they conceive a child. Outlaw divorce.Those “sins” are routinely ignored & excused by conservatives because I doubt there is any place in America that would elect someone on that platform. Also, a large number of conservatives would be convicted if such laws were passed.
“Our Government was founded on Christian Principles.”A majority of Christians support same sex marriage, so that’s a moot point even if it’s factually challenged.
It might be because of the children that Anthony Kennedy votes to strike down Proposition 8. Referring to the almost 40,000 children of same sex couples:“They want their parents to have full recognition and status. The voice of those children is important."
“…..Next let’s look at some of your rights through the lens of the ten commandments: …..” Because those 10 commandments were delivered by a “Christen” named Moses?
“Also, somethings are not meant to be ‘married’ as it destroys the union and this is an example.”Explain in detail how two women getting married “destroys the union”. We’ve had a lot of gay marriages in California, and despite all the lies told by the Mormons, my wife and I are still happily married. We didn’t have to divorce just because some gays got married.
Hmmmm, well…you don’t agree with me….so that makes YOU a hater as well. You don’t like my characteristic…so YOU’RE also a bigot. I also believe in calling a spade a spade.
Jack75287 is full of it. most of the founding fathers were diests, and the proportions were similar to today. 1/3rd of the signers were right wing religious nut jobs, 2/3rd NOT (either diests or quakers).of course the laws he quotes are not Christian at all. Just stolen by Christians (like gays are ‘stealing’ marriage).
“I can still understand where their discomfort.comes from.”
Sure, so can I. But as I said, for the trans* person who has to pee, it may come down to a choice between being complained about or being beaten up, and I know which one I would choose under those circumstances — so I have to defend that choice. And, yeah, this is in the full awareness that sexual interest is not the biggest thing on most peoples’ minds in a women’s restroom, anyway…. ;-P
YOU see it as a perversion. Considering that over 400 species of birds and mammals have documented homosexuality, though, a lot of people just see it as part of the normal spectrum of sexuality, harming no-one. Your opinion holds no more weight than that of any individual.
I take it you believe that God made everything. If that’s so, and if God thinks that homosexuality is perversion, then why did He make so much of it?
Knock it off! We get it! You don’t like each other, yada, yada, yada. How ’bout responding to some actual comments, such as ’All of our founders were Christian?" Patently untrue. I believe at least one signer was Jewish. And other Jews helped finance our fledgling government through the revolutionary War. Do you think they would have helped if our documents specified “Christian” nation? Also read the treaty with the Barbary pirates, where our government specifically said we were NOT a Christian nation!
Don Winchester Premium Member about 11 years ago
These symbols of America shouldn’t be used like this. You’re a sick person, Toles…
g.iangoodson about 11 years ago
The cartoonist is irrationally comparing Abstract Personifications with the reality of human lives and emotions. It’s not an argument, it’s not even relevant, no matter what side of the argument you take.
What he means that liberty and justice are best served by enshrining… well that depends on your point of view.
ransomdstone about 11 years ago
Corporations are people says SCOTUS. They “marry” all the time. They also buy and destroy each other. Not very attractive people!
rpmurray about 11 years ago
I’m still waiting for someone to point out which document specifies that marriage is a right.
kerumbo Premium Member about 11 years ago
The more I think about this one, the more brilliant it gets.
cripplious about 11 years ago
we should ship them all to gulags
ARodney about 11 years ago
Good cartoon, Toles! You brought out the trolls making bigoted and irrational comments, and undermining what little appeal conservatism has in the modern age.
Jason Allen about 11 years ago
“It’s gay men that are “icky.” Lesbians are ok. Two chicks kissing is hot!”That’s highly subjective. I personally find it gross. But then I find it gross when even one woman is involved in anything sexual.
lonecat about 11 years ago
If you just look around at the world without making any judgments to start with, what you see is a very complicated world of gender. When I was a kid, back in the middle ages, I didn’t know a single person who was an admitted gay. Of course there were just as many gay people, but they didn’t let on. Then gradually it became more acceptable to admit you were gay, and in the 80s and 90s, there was the phenomenon of “coming out of the closet”. A fair number of people who had been in heterosexual marriages got divorced and formed same-sex partnerships. (The current Premier of Ontario is an example.) Clearly many of these people would never have entered into a heterosexual marriage if they had been able to enter into same-sex marriage.+Then there were people who said, Hey, I’m not quite happy with the whole binary division of genders, anyway. Some were bisexual, some were transgendered, and so on. There’s a philosophy professor where I work, male, who regularly dresses as a woman and uses the women’s bathroom. I was at a party last weekend and there were several transgender people there. I don’t know if they are planning to have sex-change operations or not (somehow I didn’t feel like asking). It’s clear to me that there is a huge variety of feelings about gender, and these were always there, just not expressed.+Me, I’m heterosexual and pretty ordinary about it, but I have to respect what other people are. It’s actually quite fascinating to see the world of (social) gender change so radically in such a short time. I just hope that everyone can find a way to be happy being what they are. If no one is harmed, what’s the problem?
Jason Allen about 11 years ago
“Who is stopping them?”Biggots and state/federal laws are stopping them.“Isn’t there 10 states that allow anyone to marry anyone else?”No state allows a person to marry “anyone else.” There are states that allow gay marriage, but they still require both partners to be consenting adults.
walkingmancomics about 11 years ago
“@PianoGuy24 (& others of like thinking)
Actually, they should be used exactly like that." agreed!
californicated1 about 11 years ago
Why can’t we have our Texans be more like the fun-loving guys on Discovery Channel’s “Fast N Loud” and less like the “PlanoGuy24” commenter on these pages?
Motivemagus about 11 years ago
BRILLIANT!
lbatik about 11 years ago
Read what I wrote, please: when a transgender or a transvestite uses the women’s toilet, they make people uncomfortable, women glare at them and people may complain. When they use the men’s toilet, they make people uncomfortable, men glare at them, and they *often get beaten up. *
I, as a woman, say yes they can as far as I’m concerned, on the basis that physical safety trumps mental discomfort.
When the average male gets over whatever bee lives in his bonnet that tells him its ok to beat someone up if that person makes him uncomfortable, then we can discuss what the new practical solution is.
Simple.
edward thomas Premium Member about 11 years ago
A tradition, once belonging only to the lords, many of whom took “the lord’s privilege” of the first night with his serf’’s new wife once peasants were allowed to be married. Marriage was ordained to establish genetic purity (religious), to seal treaties between nations (governmental), or to seal contracts (mercantile). Since most lower classes did not “marry”, but decided to live together, we have the term “common law marriage”, i.e. seen as equal to marriage. If marriage was truly for procreation, as many say, then the senior citizens who marry in their 70s would be prohibited, not celebrated. The Anglican Church was established because Henry VIII was disappointed he could not have a male heir by his wife. He was able to obtain an annulment from the Pope the first time, but rebelled when the Pope refused a second one. He then broke from Catholicism and established his church. Really a great way to uphold “holy matrimony”!
riley05 about 11 years ago
“Amazing the contortions Dem Libs will go through to destroy a tradition whose main beneficiary is Children”Lucky for the nation that Justice Kennedy understands the situation much better than you do.
lbatik about 11 years ago
Depends on where and when; I support the right of schools, courtrooms and businesses to set their own rules, too, on the basis of them having their own safety concerns.
oneoldhat about 11 years ago
if 2 or more competent adults want to hook up that is their business but what i object to is they expecting me to subsidize them. the 1st case bho decide not to enforce doma was a case involving inheritance tax on the estate of a donor
dannysixpack about 11 years ago
dannysixpack said, less than a minute ago
^This is not a state by state issue, Tig. I do think the court will either defer a few years, waiting for a better case (no standing), or decide the correct way.
What a completely appropriate use of symbolism, and beautiful sentiment mr. toles. I applaud you!
dannysixpack about 11 years ago
PianoGuy24 said, about 12 hours ago
“These symbols of America shouldn’t be used like this. You’re a sick person, Toles…”how sad for you, mister pianoguy. where there is beauty, you can see only uglyness.
riley05 about 11 years ago
“Our Government was founded on Christian Principles.”Amazing. Even after I predicted a rightie would say this, trying to save them the effort, Tigger comes along, right on cue.So give us the biblical source for our three-part government with checks and balances, Tigger. A limited federal government with individual states? How about our freedom of religion…where in the bible does that come from?I’m not even going to touch “Deceleration”!
riley05 about 11 years ago
“The SCOTUS will rule this is a State by State issue”So what happens when a married gay couple tours the country, Tigger? Do they become unmarried in this state, then married again in that state, then unmarried again…?
genemascho about 11 years ago
nobody cared until a roman empeor out lawed it in 580 ad from pressure from catholic/orthodox church probably to homely to find abuddie
riley05 about 11 years ago
Tigger, have you ever read the actual text of the Constitution? If so, what do you think of this sentence: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. "
I Play One On TV about 11 years ago
“on the basis that physical safety trumps mental discomfort.”————So then you agree that it’s okay for a law-abiding citizen to visibly carry a gun.
I can’t do that. Personally, when someone carries a gun, physical safety is the very last thing that comes to mind. I know that someone who I know nothing about (and who knows nothing about me) has the means to make me dead in an instant. This, to me, is not physical safety. I remove myself from the immediate area as soon as practical.
scurvytech about 11 years ago
Excellent!! Thanks Tom!
riley05 about 11 years ago
“It’s a good thing my parents are deceased.”I wish my parents weren’t deceased. I miss them, and they’d love to see all the modern wonders.
Uncle Joe Premium Member about 11 years ago
“Amazing the contortions Dem Libs will go through to destroy a tradition whose main beneficiary is Children…”Expanding the tradition isn’t destroying it. If the people opposing same sex marriage want to defend their idea of the tradition, why don’t you try & pass some laws that make extra-marital sex illegal? Pass some laws requiring men & women to marry if they conceive a child. Outlaw divorce.Those “sins” are routinely ignored & excused by conservatives because I doubt there is any place in America that would elect someone on that platform. Also, a large number of conservatives would be convicted if such laws were passed.
Uncle Joe Premium Member about 11 years ago
“Our Government was founded on Christian Principles.”A majority of Christians support same sex marriage, so that’s a moot point even if it’s factually challenged.
Newshound41 about 11 years ago
It might be because of the children that Anthony Kennedy votes to strike down Proposition 8. Referring to the almost 40,000 children of same sex couples:“They want their parents to have full recognition and status. The voice of those children is important."
Kylop about 11 years ago
“…..Next let’s look at some of your rights through the lens of the ten commandments: …..” Because those 10 commandments were delivered by a “Christen” named Moses?
riley05 about 11 years ago
“Sexual perversion is NOT a human right”Neither is low intelligence or bigotry. Your point?
Newshound41 about 11 years ago
According to the Supreme Court it is, Lawrence vs. Texas.
riley05 about 11 years ago
“Also, somethings are not meant to be ‘married’ as it destroys the union and this is an example.”Explain in detail how two women getting married “destroys the union”. We’ve had a lot of gay marriages in California, and despite all the lies told by the Mormons, my wife and I are still happily married. We didn’t have to divorce just because some gays got married.
Don Winchester Premium Member about 11 years ago
Hmmmm, well…you don’t agree with me….so that makes YOU a hater as well. You don’t like my characteristic…so YOU’RE also a bigot. I also believe in calling a spade a spade.
dannysixpack about 11 years ago
Jack75287 is full of it. most of the founding fathers were diests, and the proportions were similar to today. 1/3rd of the signers were right wing religious nut jobs, 2/3rd NOT (either diests or quakers).of course the laws he quotes are not Christian at all. Just stolen by Christians (like gays are ‘stealing’ marriage).
Don Winchester Premium Member about 11 years ago
And thus ends another day of seeing how the “tolerant” Left shows their intolerance of a view they don’t agree with. Thank you for playing…
lbatik about 11 years ago
“I can still understand where their discomfort.comes from.”
Sure, so can I. But as I said, for the trans* person who has to pee, it may come down to a choice between being complained about or being beaten up, and I know which one I would choose under those circumstances — so I have to defend that choice. And, yeah, this is in the full awareness that sexual interest is not the biggest thing on most peoples’ minds in a women’s restroom, anyway…. ;-P
lbatik about 11 years ago
YOU see it as a perversion. Considering that over 400 species of birds and mammals have documented homosexuality, though, a lot of people just see it as part of the normal spectrum of sexuality, harming no-one. Your opinion holds no more weight than that of any individual.
I take it you believe that God made everything. If that’s so, and if God thinks that homosexuality is perversion, then why did He make so much of it?
Don Winchester Premium Member about 11 years ago
To Lynne and Anthony, you poor sad deluded people. You can dish it, but you can’t take it.
edward thomas Premium Member about 11 years ago
Knock it off! We get it! You don’t like each other, yada, yada, yada. How ’bout responding to some actual comments, such as ’All of our founders were Christian?" Patently untrue. I believe at least one signer was Jewish. And other Jews helped finance our fledgling government through the revolutionary War. Do you think they would have helped if our documents specified “Christian” nation? Also read the treaty with the Barbary pirates, where our government specifically said we were NOT a Christian nation!