This “fiscal cliff”is a bipartisan creation demonstrating better than anything else how disconnected from their responsibilities to their constituents legislators have become. For elected officials to hold a financial gun to the head of poor and middle income citizens. Both parties still go to the money people in hopes some money will trickle down to their reelection coffers. Its easy for people with money to hold their ground. For people who have to buy water because water sources they’ve trusted for centuries are now toxic, or who have to care for elderly parents who lost their pensions when Wall Street’s gambles went bust, etc, etc, etc…. this is not a negotiation, it is a matter of quality of life, even survival. I will not argue the causes, but in lieu ofa credible new solution, trying what has worked before is a good fall back position. During the depression, public works projects put short term money into the tax base….the businesses that grew from those projects continued. During the Clinton years, tax policy and spending policy gave us a surplus we lost fighting two wars, unfunded tax cuts, and an unfunded filling for the prescription “donut hole”. These may not have been perfect solutions, but they stopped the bleeding of the day, Our neighbors are in food lines they never expected to stand in. Our retirees have returned to the workplace, taking jobs from teens who need them as well, in order to replace pensions lost. Our friends, neighbors, and family are suffering and these self interested in Congress on both sides are using them as talking points.Stop the talking and start the walking. And lets walk together, United. Not towards each other in confrontation.Write to your elected officials on email and snail mail and tell them what you want. They may actually listen to your position if enough like minded ppl participate.Respectfully,C.
The “fiscal cliff” belongs to Congress, not Obama. He’s always been completely clear on what he’ll sign and what he won’t. If you don’t want a fiscal cliff, change your congresspeople.
thank you Bruce for the flow chart of events that brought us to this FISCAL CLIFF.-the US constitution authorizes Congress starting in the House to pass spending bills, passed by Senate vote and signed by the President to enact…..but Obama promised to VETO any lame duck bill to prevent the January 1, 2013 Economic Armageddon! (if there are not enough TAX HIKES to suit the Emperor!)2013 looks to be a very gloomy year…..more Obamacare costs will kick in…..more cuts to paying medical providers…who cannot survive financially without being paid in full for services provided…..so getting treatment under Medicare or Obamacare will begin to be more difficult…if too many Doctors don’t just quit practice in frustration!-age 80, I have paid IRS tax since my first full-time job at age 16….graduated high school at age 15….and the failure to extend current rates means I will owe more income taxes next year with a 1.7% increase in social security retirement.I am truly “disgusted taxpayer” getting more disgusted…if the voters do not UN-elect Obama, everybody faces Depression living styles. I was born in the ‘29 Depression era that did not end until after WW2…..I know our family’s diet menu was far different than I got used to after my husband and I both had paychecks….“Back to the Future”?Obama-style?
REDUCED THE DEFICIT?????????????????????I assume you are illiterate. But if in fact you can read please check any of HUNDREDS of sources that will show you the deficit increasing at a frightening rate.
Defense is the largest “discretionary” spending item. It could easily be cut significantly, and we’d still outspend the next 14 nations, combined! Reagan/Bush increased the national debt by 400+%, Clinton limited that to a 24% increase, the W doubled the debt, a 100% increase. The INTEREST on that debt, most owed to Americans (well banks) is a huge part of our tax burden.
But hey, who wants to look at where the problem really lies.
When you have likely voters making claims like Obama reduced the deficit, it’s easy to see how we are in the mess we are in right now. For survivals sake people, crack a book, read up on our history, learn something about economics, find out what’s really happening with our foreign policy and our nations security before heading the the polls again.
I saw a study that showed Obama’s spending $11 for $7 received in tax revenues…..that is not a survivable plan.-the 2011 welfare programs, EXCLUDING Medicare/Medicaid and Veterans benefits, over $1 Trillion…..yes, if the “poor” were given that $1 Trillion they would be out of Poverty….for one year….then the choices made by individuals would sink many back into poverty….single parenthood is the major cause for poverty….loss of job…sickness….a lot of causes for people being needy. Single parenthood is a personal CHOICE, usually. Too many couples produce children outside of marriage, which leaves children without reliable support…and among married couples, divorce is too easy and also leaves children in poverty even if the single parent works at a job….too much unsupervised time is hurtful for children…If only people obeyed God’s rules taught in the Bible, God would bless them with a better life.
For the sake of world economic welfare, one can only hope there are some realists in the U.S. government. Spending cuts, particularly on the military, and increased revenue, particularly from the rich are both required. It really is quite simple.
“……Sorry, I just lost it for a minute….”.You didn’t just lose it for a minute, you never really had it!.You really think Obama is getting rid of all your nukes and you’ll be unable to defend yourself? Get serious, and don’t be such a dupe for the military industrial complex and the chicken hawks. You will still have enough nukes to blow up the world several times over. But more to the point, nukes will not be used if, heaven forbid, a shooting war does come – it will be with conventional weapons and covert actions, Unless the world has gone completely mad. .And where do you think the revenue comes from to pay for that military presence you so cherish, as well as for the other expenses of government? That sense of realism seems to be missing by so many, which probably explains why the U.S. is in such deep financial trouble.
Make up your mind Eryx, first you claim Obama reduced the deficit and now you defend his blowing up of the deficit by saying he has proposed hefty budget cuts. Are you admitting now he has thus far failed to reduce it?
One thing I can agree with you on is the gravity of the financial situation. It is unsustainable, and somewhere, somehow, sometime it will end, and it won’t be pretty..But to effect a solution you first better get the cause right, and I don’t think you do. A series of presidents overspent on wars and entitlements (exception Clinton) but the serial violator was good old George. Much of Obama’s spending is programmed spending, and he has reduced the military commitment, although not nearly enough. .And you had better get the solution right. The fiscal imbalance has to be addressed on two levels – higher revenue and lower costs. Not implementing higher taxes on the wealthy because it doesn’t solve the total problem immediately is ridiculous – higher revenue has to be part of the mix. Non-productive spending has to happen and the biggest violator is the military. Don’t be so paranoid. Ask yourself if the American homeland will be at greater risk if all foreign wars are shut down, the majority of the 700+ foreign military bases are closed down, and all that military money is spent at home on infrastructure, health care, education, and research. I think America and the world would be much safer and would make Americans far better off in wealth and jobs..What will not work? Just about everything the last Republican administration did that was the main contributor to the present mess and is now mainly Romney’s platform. Two things that would be particularly counter-productive – increased military spending and reduced infrastructure spending. A Romney government doing what he says he will do could be disastrous.
10/20/12 news= Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood president’s government is now demanding NUKES for EGYPT….!-Obama is unilaterally DISARMING America while the most hostile parts of the world are building up nuclear arsenals—Russia, China, N.Korea, while helping Iran and Syria and others start and add to nuclear weapon capability and stockpiles.-I’m glad God is still in charge and limits what the EVIL people can do. But we are such a sinful nation and there is no national repentance for our sins, so who knows? God may permit some of those nukes to hit the historic Judeo-Christian countries of the world.-In the meantime, I want Romney to replace Obama in the Oval Office and work to restore FULL SUPPORT in spirit and morale and materials to Israel….to try to stop the trend to increasing the sins of abortion and perverted lifestyles.
You’re confused Eryx, I said nothing about where budgets originate and I certainly never claimed Obama did not present one. I’m fully aware of the system and how it works and agree with you on that point. My post however addressed the fact you claimed Obama reduced the deficit, so how about you respond to that instead of deflecting to something I never claimed.
He has not even come close to reducing government spending. You can spew talking points all you like but it does not make them true. I love how people want to claim Obama ‘ended one war’ as some great and glorious thing. That war ended on schedule, the same schedule that was already in place before Obama took office. Don’t forget Obama also never truly ended the war, but merely shifted it to Afghanistan. You can war semantics all you like but that’s what happened. I don’t fault him for it because it would have happened under a Republican presidency as well. You also fail to acknowledge the huge amounts of stimulus money he has spent. I guess it it’s stimulus and not in the budget you don’t think you have to count it as govt spending? What is clear here is that YOU “don’t know the difference”. No worries though, it seems a very common occurrence among those on the edges of the political spectrum right or left.
ConserveGov over 11 years ago
“Yeah, but…but….it’s really really hard being Prez. Give me 4 more years and I promise I’ll have brand new excuses why the economy sucks”.
Dtroutma over 11 years ago
Bushco drove it off, Obama’s just trying to provide jumars.
chazandru over 11 years ago
This “fiscal cliff”is a bipartisan creation demonstrating better than anything else how disconnected from their responsibilities to their constituents legislators have become. For elected officials to hold a financial gun to the head of poor and middle income citizens. Both parties still go to the money people in hopes some money will trickle down to their reelection coffers. Its easy for people with money to hold their ground. For people who have to buy water because water sources they’ve trusted for centuries are now toxic, or who have to care for elderly parents who lost their pensions when Wall Street’s gambles went bust, etc, etc, etc…. this is not a negotiation, it is a matter of quality of life, even survival. I will not argue the causes, but in lieu ofa credible new solution, trying what has worked before is a good fall back position. During the depression, public works projects put short term money into the tax base….the businesses that grew from those projects continued. During the Clinton years, tax policy and spending policy gave us a surplus we lost fighting two wars, unfunded tax cuts, and an unfunded filling for the prescription “donut hole”. These may not have been perfect solutions, but they stopped the bleeding of the day, Our neighbors are in food lines they never expected to stand in. Our retirees have returned to the workplace, taking jobs from teens who need them as well, in order to replace pensions lost. Our friends, neighbors, and family are suffering and these self interested in Congress on both sides are using them as talking points.Stop the talking and start the walking. And lets walk together, United. Not towards each other in confrontation.Write to your elected officials on email and snail mail and tell them what you want. They may actually listen to your position if enough like minded ppl participate.Respectfully,C.
greyolddave over 11 years ago
I think I recall that it was the Republicans who invented the cliff and then made sure we could only travel in that one direction.
Nebulous Premium Member over 11 years ago
Those same recommendations that Ryan voted against when he was part of that committee.He tends to forget to mention that.
Chillbilly over 11 years ago
The “fiscal cliff” belongs to Congress, not Obama. He’s always been completely clear on what he’ll sign and what he won’t. If you don’t want a fiscal cliff, change your congresspeople.
disgustedtaxpayer over 11 years ago
thank you Bruce for the flow chart of events that brought us to this FISCAL CLIFF.-the US constitution authorizes Congress starting in the House to pass spending bills, passed by Senate vote and signed by the President to enact…..but Obama promised to VETO any lame duck bill to prevent the January 1, 2013 Economic Armageddon! (if there are not enough TAX HIKES to suit the Emperor!)2013 looks to be a very gloomy year…..more Obamacare costs will kick in…..more cuts to paying medical providers…who cannot survive financially without being paid in full for services provided…..so getting treatment under Medicare or Obamacare will begin to be more difficult…if too many Doctors don’t just quit practice in frustration!-age 80, I have paid IRS tax since my first full-time job at age 16….graduated high school at age 15….and the failure to extend current rates means I will owe more income taxes next year with a 1.7% increase in social security retirement.I am truly “disgusted taxpayer” getting more disgusted…if the voters do not UN-elect Obama, everybody faces Depression living styles. I was born in the ‘29 Depression era that did not end until after WW2…..I know our family’s diet menu was far different than I got used to after my husband and I both had paychecks….“Back to the Future”?Obama-style?
Tempus Fugit Premium Member over 11 years ago
As usual the opposition party (this time the republicans) won’t take any responsibility for their behavior.
archimedeslives over 11 years ago
REDUCED THE DEFICIT?????????????????????I assume you are illiterate. But if in fact you can read please check any of HUNDREDS of sources that will show you the deficit increasing at a frightening rate.
archimedeslives over 11 years ago
your own graph proves you’re wrong. All four years of Obama the deficit is higher than at any time before Obama
Dtroutma over 11 years ago
Defense is the largest “discretionary” spending item. It could easily be cut significantly, and we’d still outspend the next 14 nations, combined! Reagan/Bush increased the national debt by 400+%, Clinton limited that to a 24% increase, the W doubled the debt, a 100% increase. The INTEREST on that debt, most owed to Americans (well banks) is a huge part of our tax burden.
But hey, who wants to look at where the problem really lies.
paytonb over 11 years ago
When you have likely voters making claims like Obama reduced the deficit, it’s easy to see how we are in the mess we are in right now. For survivals sake people, crack a book, read up on our history, learn something about economics, find out what’s really happening with our foreign policy and our nations security before heading the the polls again.
hjenks over 11 years ago
Must be John BONER driving the cars,it the republicans leading us to the cliff.
disgustedtaxpayer over 11 years ago
I saw a study that showed Obama’s spending $11 for $7 received in tax revenues…..that is not a survivable plan.-the 2011 welfare programs, EXCLUDING Medicare/Medicaid and Veterans benefits, over $1 Trillion…..yes, if the “poor” were given that $1 Trillion they would be out of Poverty….for one year….then the choices made by individuals would sink many back into poverty….single parenthood is the major cause for poverty….loss of job…sickness….a lot of causes for people being needy. Single parenthood is a personal CHOICE, usually. Too many couples produce children outside of marriage, which leaves children without reliable support…and among married couples, divorce is too easy and also leaves children in poverty even if the single parent works at a job….too much unsupervised time is hurtful for children…If only people obeyed God’s rules taught in the Bible, God would bless them with a better life.
Gypsy8 over 11 years ago
For the sake of world economic welfare, one can only hope there are some realists in the U.S. government. Spending cuts, particularly on the military, and increased revenue, particularly from the rich are both required. It really is quite simple.
Gypsy8 over 11 years ago
“……Sorry, I just lost it for a minute….”.You didn’t just lose it for a minute, you never really had it!.You really think Obama is getting rid of all your nukes and you’ll be unable to defend yourself? Get serious, and don’t be such a dupe for the military industrial complex and the chicken hawks. You will still have enough nukes to blow up the world several times over. But more to the point, nukes will not be used if, heaven forbid, a shooting war does come – it will be with conventional weapons and covert actions, Unless the world has gone completely mad. .And where do you think the revenue comes from to pay for that military presence you so cherish, as well as for the other expenses of government? That sense of realism seems to be missing by so many, which probably explains why the U.S. is in such deep financial trouble.
paytonb over 11 years ago
Make up your mind Eryx, first you claim Obama reduced the deficit and now you defend his blowing up of the deficit by saying he has proposed hefty budget cuts. Are you admitting now he has thus far failed to reduce it?
Gypsy8 over 11 years ago
One thing I can agree with you on is the gravity of the financial situation. It is unsustainable, and somewhere, somehow, sometime it will end, and it won’t be pretty..But to effect a solution you first better get the cause right, and I don’t think you do. A series of presidents overspent on wars and entitlements (exception Clinton) but the serial violator was good old George. Much of Obama’s spending is programmed spending, and he has reduced the military commitment, although not nearly enough. .And you had better get the solution right. The fiscal imbalance has to be addressed on two levels – higher revenue and lower costs. Not implementing higher taxes on the wealthy because it doesn’t solve the total problem immediately is ridiculous – higher revenue has to be part of the mix. Non-productive spending has to happen and the biggest violator is the military. Don’t be so paranoid. Ask yourself if the American homeland will be at greater risk if all foreign wars are shut down, the majority of the 700+ foreign military bases are closed down, and all that military money is spent at home on infrastructure, health care, education, and research. I think America and the world would be much safer and would make Americans far better off in wealth and jobs..What will not work? Just about everything the last Republican administration did that was the main contributor to the present mess and is now mainly Romney’s platform. Two things that would be particularly counter-productive – increased military spending and reduced infrastructure spending. A Romney government doing what he says he will do could be disastrous.
disgustedtaxpayer over 11 years ago
10/20/12 news= Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood president’s government is now demanding NUKES for EGYPT….!-Obama is unilaterally DISARMING America while the most hostile parts of the world are building up nuclear arsenals—Russia, China, N.Korea, while helping Iran and Syria and others start and add to nuclear weapon capability and stockpiles.-I’m glad God is still in charge and limits what the EVIL people can do. But we are such a sinful nation and there is no national repentance for our sins, so who knows? God may permit some of those nukes to hit the historic Judeo-Christian countries of the world.-In the meantime, I want Romney to replace Obama in the Oval Office and work to restore FULL SUPPORT in spirit and morale and materials to Israel….to try to stop the trend to increasing the sins of abortion and perverted lifestyles.
paytonb over 11 years ago
You’re confused Eryx, I said nothing about where budgets originate and I certainly never claimed Obama did not present one. I’m fully aware of the system and how it works and agree with you on that point. My post however addressed the fact you claimed Obama reduced the deficit, so how about you respond to that instead of deflecting to something I never claimed.
paytonb over 11 years ago
Obama has certainly not reduced the budget deficit and I’m well aware of the difference thanks.
paytonb over 11 years ago
He has not even come close to reducing government spending. You can spew talking points all you like but it does not make them true. I love how people want to claim Obama ‘ended one war’ as some great and glorious thing. That war ended on schedule, the same schedule that was already in place before Obama took office. Don’t forget Obama also never truly ended the war, but merely shifted it to Afghanistan. You can war semantics all you like but that’s what happened. I don’t fault him for it because it would have happened under a Republican presidency as well. You also fail to acknowledge the huge amounts of stimulus money he has spent. I guess it it’s stimulus and not in the budget you don’t think you have to count it as govt spending? What is clear here is that YOU “don’t know the difference”. No worries though, it seems a very common occurrence among those on the edges of the political spectrum right or left.