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Chip Bok for June 24, 2020

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    Concretionist  over 1 year ago

    And Bok’s point is…??

    I guess he’s saying that Jefferson’s historically too important to be removed from our consciousness. But that’s an “of course” anyway. He can’t possibly have missed the point of removing statues of slave holders from pubic places. We will and should remember that he’s a founding father. But we now must and will remember that he wasn’t perfect.

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    superposition  over 1 year ago

    Jefferson a traitor, a secessionist, anti-democracy?

    " … Thomas Jefferson wrote that “all men are created equal,” and yet enslaved more than six-hundred people over the course of his life. Although he made some legislative attempts against slavery and at times bemoaned its existence, he also profited directly from the institution of slavery and wrote that he suspected black people to be inferior to white people in his Notes on the State of Virginia.

    Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty. These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm. …"

    https://www.monticello.org/thomas-jefferson/jefferson-slavery/jefferson-s-attitudes-toward-slavery/

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    Baslim the Beggar Premium Member over 1 year ago

    @Superposition : The road to hell is paved with good intentions undone by the pursuit of personal gain.

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    Zykoic  over 1 year ago

    Ahhhhhhh…..

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    cdward  over 1 year ago

    I will repeat (or recap) what I wrote elsewhere: Statues are neither history nor art. Their goal is to lionize. They hold up for public approval an individual who stands for something, and it is that something — a cause — that is being approved. This is especially true of statues of soldiers. They say we approve of what they fought for. In the case of any Confederate soldier, we know based on their own articles of secession that they fought to maintain chattel slavery based on the presumption of white superiority. That’s what they wrote. That is not a cause worthY of lionizing, so no Confederate statue should exist. Frankly, I am of the opinion that we might want to get rid of all statues — no society needs them — but we must recognize that the statue is rarely all about the individual. We KNOW that all individuals are complex and flawed. The statue is about what we as a society approve of. The fact that societal norms change only adds to the argument that statues aren’t helpful.

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    @Rad-ish  Premium Member over 1 year ago

    Jefferson was a major slave owner.

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    sykerocker  over 1 year ago

    By 2020 standards, virtually every white American who lived between 1789 and 1920 was a racist, sexist, misogynistic bastard. And we’re determined to point out every wrong they did (by modern standards) over their overall accomplishments.

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    EdMeiller Premium Member over 1 year ago

    Stick the statues in a museum with descriptions of the people they represent.

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    walfishj  over 1 year ago

    And a big yellow taxi took away my old man Don’t it always seem to go That you don’t know what you’ve got ‘til it’s gone? They paved paradise Put up a parking lot. So lets us find out what we are missing.

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    ideations  over 1 year ago

    Instead of railing against the stone and metal figures, why don’’t the protesters attack the current racists in the country that are doing the damage?

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    Zen-of-Zinfandel  over 1 year ago

    The Keebler elves aren’t out rioting.

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    Alberta Oil Premium Member over 1 year ago

    Are “we” still not slaves.. we must work.. pay taxes.. follow arbitrary rules.. trapped by debt.. get beat/shot/thrown in jail at the whim of the man. Ankle chains have been replaced by zip ties so there has been some improvement but slaves we are.

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    thelordthygod666  over 1 year ago

    I’m creating a database that is designed to capture faces of everyone videoed that is vandalizing ( it also uses facial recognition software that compares the eyes above any mask with other online photos). This database will be available to all potential future employers.

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    ferddo  over 1 year ago

    How did the French get involved? First I’ve heard of it…

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    mourdac Premium Member over 1 year ago

    The nascent U.S. could have enforced “all men are created equal” when the Declaration of Independence is formed. It could have acted with conscience towards all peoples when the Constitution was written and approved. If slavery had been banned, however, Southern states would not have signed on.

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    rlaker22j  over 1 year ago

    you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but who really gives a shit

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    Graphicsdog  over 1 year ago

    All wrong! The French loved Jefferson!

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    Johnnybugg47  over 1 year ago

    I’m told wolves, dingo dogs and piranha, In a blood frenzy, will turn on each other… keep the cameras rolling….

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    ndblackirish97  over 1 year ago

    Trump’s rally in Arizona yesterday must’ve been really boring and underwhelming. I’d expected Right Wing media and political figures bragging how big and great it was. LOL!

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    DrDon1  over 1 year ago

    Bok focuses on a sideshow rather than on the Main Event — Our current economic/racial divide!

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