What the bleeeeep (my bleep) is this strip supposed to mean?
Capitalism is freedom applied to economics. It is Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness plus money and markets. To reject capitalism is to reject the best of what makes us Americans: independence, self-reliance, ambition, a desire for a better life, defense of our rights – among other aspects that tick off those people (including many supposed Americans) who reject these principles.
Be warned against the old statist racket – interfere with capitalism, watch the problems that arise, blame the problems on capitalism, and finally use that as an excuse for more interference. Repeat until capitalism is destroyed.
We have not been fully capitalist for about a century. (I pinpoint 1913, with the Fed and the modern income tax). Our system is a crippled semi-capitalism, part free, part controlled. But still people blame capitalism for almost every problem.
Economic crisis caused by Fed policies, Freddy, Fanny, the Community Reinvestment Act? Blame capitalism. Oil spill can’t be stopped because regulations prevent drilling where the easy oil is? Blame capitalism. Etc., etc.
(And don’t tell me the strip is just a joke. It’s much more than that. I just doubt Mastroianni and Hart understand how much more.)
Capitalism has lasted here for 235yrs (give or take).
Russian communism barely lasted 50yrs.
After the fall of Russian communism the Chinese shifted to a more capitalistic form. (I wonder why).
As an economist, I’m uncomfortable when people uncritically conflate the terms capitalism, free market, and freedom – all three are abstractions that have never existed in the real world, and they are not the same thing. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.
– It is a mistake to expect capitalism to be a silver bullet, and it is not a criticism of capitalism when it does not solve all problems immediately.
– “Life was not better”? Nothing improved life more rapidly for more people than capitalism. Just compare to life in those parts of the world that reject capitalism or never came close to it to the parts of the world that embraced it or at least imitated it.
– There never were “robber barons” except in medieval Europe. “Robber baron” was an epithet invented in the 1930’s, long after the era it attempts to tarnish. Robbery was an attribute of feudalism, not capitalism. Property rights were and are the root of capitalism. (Franklin made Jefferson take “property” out of John Locke’s formulation of “life, liberty and property” so the Southerners could not use it to justify slavery.)
– Booms and busts have one of two categories of cause. Sometimes they result from technological change (steam boats, telegraphs, radio, etc.) and are a natural and temporary part of a free economy. The really damaging and long-lasting busts have always been a result of government action (mostly government monetary policy). It took just 16 years for the Fed to cause the Great Depression.
– “Self-interest over love”? What a dewy-eyed expression of the altruist principle that says you must live your life for others and must sacrifice your own well-being in the bargain. The reason for America’s success was that the Founding Fathers set up a government originally intended to protect individual rights, and those rights are ALL about self-interest. It is YOUR life, YOUR liberty, and the pursuit of YOUR happiness. All that is required of you is to respect the same rights in others.
I suppose there is no point in recommending that you read Ayn Rand’s essay collection “The Virtue of Selfishness”. But the rest of you out there might benefit.
All boats rise together. If we weigh down the biggest boats with taxes and regulations, the small ones get swamped first.
If my boat employs 50 sailors and I trade well, My boat now employs 100. However, If regulations and taxes force my boat to remain at port, sorry guys. Hope the long shore men are hiring, but with no boats trading—-.
Ayn Rand…pathetic. An ostensible adult, with the ethics and world-view of a two-year-old – Me! Me! Me! – presuming to prescribe truth and enlightenment to others? I think not.
(I’m referring, of course, to Ayn Rand, not to any of my fellow posters.)
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Penny, why don’t you write a play about Ism-Mania?
Penny Sycamore: Ism-Mania?
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Yeah, sure, you know, Communism, Faschism, Voodoo-ism, everybody’s got an -ism these days.
Penny Sycamore: Oh
[laughs]
Penny Sycamore: I thought it was some kind of itch or something.
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Well, it’s just as catching. When things go a little bad nowadays, you go out, get yourself an -ism and you’re in business.
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Maybe it’ll stop you trying to be so desperate about making more money than you can ever use? You can’t take it with you, Mr. Kirby. So what good is it? As near as I can see, the only thing you can take with you is the love of your friends.
Boy, doc, Spammers are capitalism at it’s purist. they want to make a buck, see an opportunity and jump right in. if you don’t love them., you aren’t really a capitalist.
Capitalism works fine in a socialist setting in Red China right now. And Communism is still going strong in China, Vietnam, Cuba and France.
PS: Communism has it’s origin in the French Revolution. Some suggest it’s all really a brawl of English Free Mason philosophy and French Free Mason philosophy but they are also the kind who think there is pure capitalism or pure socialism. The Russian communist ideal failed because it was locked to the international monetary system and couldn’t avoid the pitfalls of trying to carry a deficit much the same as the system’s adherents couldn’t recently. The RC is going stronger than either since it literally has lured capitalists with almost free labor and free medical and “retirement” plans for workers. The mutation has shown that the “pure” of both sides can be combined for a success.
Obama was trying to emulate it with government health care and pumped up Soc Sec but the “pure’ capitalists, docs who own the Dems and Insurance Cos. that own the Repubs, pretty much gutted the try .
And the prez really stated the general American view when he said the neo-cons (not really capitalists, really greed mongers) had the car and proved they couldn’t drive.
And the oils spill demoed that BIG business, as Lew has pointed out in the past, just doesn’t function well. It gets so large it thinks it has everything covered then some jerk forgets a battery and we have several states up to their butts in oil and not in a good way.
Mr Editor, At this time “Vigilante de noche” which means Night Watchman would like to PASS on making any comment on this comic because anything I could offer would only serve to insight hostility!
You guys can have the tattoos of heart with “love”, sword stabbing the heart with “hate” and “capitalism” on your skins. I would not have the tattoos on my own flesh skin for that signs with love, hate and capitalism.
Fritzoid is probably just being an bleeep, but just in case he really is missing UBUBOBU’s point: This is a legacy strip. Inherent in the term is a trust that the creator’s successor(s) will maintain the strip - not just its quality, but its perspective, too. What UBUBOBU is saying is that Johnny Hart, BC’s original creator, would not have created a cartoon with such an apparently anti-capitalism message - maybe because he wasn’t anti-capitalism, maybe because he didn’t feel the need to put that kind of personal opinion in his strip (this one is less likely, because Johnny Hart had no problem putting his religious perspective in BC). Saying Hart wouldn’t approve is basically saying this cartoon doesn’t fit the decades-old bigger picture of BC, something you may not care about, but something long-time fans do care about, and something Mason probably cares about on some level, too.
Pschearer, I give you an A+. You’ve obviously done your homework! If we could drill in Alaska, we wouldn’t have to worry about oil spils. The’re much easier to fix when on land. And correct. We don’t have a totally free economy. I heard a great example once by Walter E.Williams. He said “In a free economy, I can compete with Bill Gates with just eleven dollars. If we want to buy a steak and he bid’s $20, I can bid $11 for half a steak…In New York it now costs $600,000 for a taxi licence. This stops the average person from being able to use a car to start a private taxi service to make money to support him/her self and their family.” Thus the government is keeping those types of people poor. Great job Pschearer!
Freeholder, capitalism is when the people own their property. Socialism is when the government owns everything. They cannot coexist.
SCAAT, Note that one should not use Wikipedia to prove a point. Due to the fact that it can be changed by anyone. (Learned that in College).
Cdward, You really didn’t prove any points.
May I also point out that Socialism contributed to the fall of Rome.
Fritsoid, UBUBOBU means that if Hart were alive and had read the strip, he would have rejected it.
I really don’t think that cartoonists, unless they say theey are meant to be political, should write anything political in their strips, they are meant simply to entertain.
I think those of you who accuse Mason of being anti-capitalist and/or abandoning his grandfather’s ideals may be overstating the case. One can believe that capitalism is better than communism and still have a love-hate relationship with it. The problem is not with capitalism per se, but with greed, but there are unique opportunities in capitalism for greed to warp the system. That being said, the reason why communism bankrupts societies that try it is also traceable back to greed.
Seriously, Socialist does not mean Socialism. With Soviet Communism the State did own everything, which in practical terms meant dictatorship. But in most developed countries we see a mix of businesses large and small owned by private corporations regulated by the public. Without careful regulation you have the housing crisis, saving and loan crisis, wall street collapses, oil wells explode and pollute the ocean, and both capitalism and civilization collapses.
Rather than archaic terms and unrealistic ideologies we need to govern ourselves with common sense.
And this includes Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press to discuss these issues in any convenient format, which I find most entertaining.
Personally, I think Hart betrayed his own “bigger picture” of B.C. in the last years (5? 10?) years of his production of the strip.
If you go back before he got God-bit, he put in a lot of jokes that in his dotage he wouldn’t have run. Mastroianni is, if anything, trying hard to make this strip something other than a pointless relic.
I’m neither condemning nor approving of Mason’s choice of this particular strip. I don’t think it’s pro-socialism or pro-communism, or even particularly anti-capitalism. As was stated above, it seems explicitly to lead to a “love/hate” message, which, considering some of the strips Mason did with Peter around Christmas time (who was oblivious to “Peace on Earth, Good Will to Man” when it conflicted with his making a buck), is hardly inconsistent with Christ’s teachings.
Well, maybe when Hart approved turning the strip over to his grandson, he thought it would merely be temporary. He probably figured he was only going to be gone three days…
“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.” - Winston Churchill
Why is it that people who have the public’s eye feel they have the right to push their political views on their readers. I for one will not be reading this strip again.
bscomics: We’re all entitled to our opinions, including you… If you happen to not like a comment, just skip it and move on… that’s what the rest of us do…
GROG Premium Member almost 14 years ago
I’ll forego comment here.
Good Morning, Dogsniff, Ladywolf, ♠Lonewolf♠ & LuvH8!
COWBOY7 almost 14 years ago
Do we have a pattern here?
Good Morning, LuvH8, Grog, Ladywolf, Woodeye, Dogsniff & Everyone.
Ooops! Premium Member almost 14 years ago
I thought it was the three stages of marriage. Shouldn’t the last one read divorce?
ksoskins almost 14 years ago
When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin?
ladywolf17 almost 14 years ago
Wow! Good morning everybody.
I like this cartoon strip. :-)
Pacejv almost 14 years ago
@ Gweedo Murray MY thought exactly. One of us must seek medical assistance right away. I volunteer…you!
Yukoner almost 14 years ago
Isn’t the last one supposed to be marriage?
Rakkav almost 14 years ago
No. :) If it is, you ain’t doin’ it right.
Wow, this strip’s a keeper.
pschearer Premium Member almost 14 years ago
What the bleeeeep (my bleep) is this strip supposed to mean?
Capitalism is freedom applied to economics. It is Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness plus money and markets. To reject capitalism is to reject the best of what makes us Americans: independence, self-reliance, ambition, a desire for a better life, defense of our rights – among other aspects that tick off those people (including many supposed Americans) who reject these principles.
Be warned against the old statist racket – interfere with capitalism, watch the problems that arise, blame the problems on capitalism, and finally use that as an excuse for more interference. Repeat until capitalism is destroyed.
We have not been fully capitalist for about a century. (I pinpoint 1913, with the Fed and the modern income tax). Our system is a crippled semi-capitalism, part free, part controlled. But still people blame capitalism for almost every problem.
Economic crisis caused by Fed policies, Freddy, Fanny, the Community Reinvestment Act? Blame capitalism. Oil spill can’t be stopped because regulations prevent drilling where the easy oil is? Blame capitalism. Etc., etc.
(And don’t tell me the strip is just a joke. It’s much more than that. I just doubt Mastroianni and Hart understand how much more.)
cdward almost 14 years ago
Nor is capitalism a silver bullet all-powerful good. Before 1913, life was not better. Unless, of course, you were a robber baron.
There were booms and busts well before then.
Capitalism is – and I might suppose this is what the cartoon is trying to say – self-interest over love. If you want to call that freedom, so be it.
Dkram almost 14 years ago
Capitalism has lasted here for 235yrs (give or take). Russian communism barely lasted 50yrs. After the fall of Russian communism the Chinese shifted to a more capitalistic form. (I wonder why).
\\//_
peter0423 almost 14 years ago
cdward: I think you nailed it.
As an economist, I’m uncomfortable when people uncritically conflate the terms capitalism, free market, and freedom – all three are abstractions that have never existed in the real world, and they are not the same thing. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.
pschearer Premium Member almost 14 years ago
cdward:
– It is a mistake to expect capitalism to be a silver bullet, and it is not a criticism of capitalism when it does not solve all problems immediately.
– “Life was not better”? Nothing improved life more rapidly for more people than capitalism. Just compare to life in those parts of the world that reject capitalism or never came close to it to the parts of the world that embraced it or at least imitated it.
– There never were “robber barons” except in medieval Europe. “Robber baron” was an epithet invented in the 1930’s, long after the era it attempts to tarnish. Robbery was an attribute of feudalism, not capitalism. Property rights were and are the root of capitalism. (Franklin made Jefferson take “property” out of John Locke’s formulation of “life, liberty and property” so the Southerners could not use it to justify slavery.)
– Booms and busts have one of two categories of cause. Sometimes they result from technological change (steam boats, telegraphs, radio, etc.) and are a natural and temporary part of a free economy. The really damaging and long-lasting busts have always been a result of government action (mostly government monetary policy). It took just 16 years for the Fed to cause the Great Depression.
– “Self-interest over love”? What a dewy-eyed expression of the altruist principle that says you must live your life for others and must sacrifice your own well-being in the bargain. The reason for America’s success was that the Founding Fathers set up a government originally intended to protect individual rights, and those rights are ALL about self-interest. It is YOUR life, YOUR liberty, and the pursuit of YOUR happiness. All that is required of you is to respect the same rights in others.
I suppose there is no point in recommending that you read Ayn Rand’s essay collection “The Virtue of Selfishness”. But the rest of you out there might benefit.
DolphinGirl78 almost 14 years ago
LuvH8: Or at least “heartbreak”?
A Hearty Good Morning to all BC’ers!!!
lewisbower almost 14 years ago
All boats rise together. If we weigh down the biggest boats with taxes and regulations, the small ones get swamped first.
If my boat employs 50 sailors and I trade well, My boat now employs 100. However, If regulations and taxes force my boat to remain at port, sorry guys. Hope the long shore men are hiring, but with no boats trading—-.
cdward almost 14 years ago
pshearer, it’s called Christianity. But then, I should have known you were an Ayn Rand groupie.
peter0423 almost 14 years ago
Ayn Rand…pathetic. An ostensible adult, with the ethics and world-view of a two-year-old – Me! Me! Me! – presuming to prescribe truth and enlightenment to others? I think not.
(I’m referring, of course, to Ayn Rand, not to any of my fellow posters.)
Barbaratoo almost 14 years ago
From the 1938 movie YOU CAN’T TAKE IT WITH YOU:
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Penny, why don’t you write a play about Ism-Mania? Penny Sycamore: Ism-Mania? Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Yeah, sure, you know, Communism, Faschism, Voodoo-ism, everybody’s got an -ism these days. Penny Sycamore: Oh [laughs] Penny Sycamore: I thought it was some kind of itch or something. Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Well, it’s just as catching. When things go a little bad nowadays, you go out, get yourself an -ism and you’re in business.
Barbaratoo almost 14 years ago
…and this:
Grandpa Martin Vanderhoff: Maybe it’ll stop you trying to be so desperate about making more money than you can ever use? You can’t take it with you, Mr. Kirby. So what good is it? As near as I can see, the only thing you can take with you is the love of your friends.
linsonl almost 14 years ago
Agreed, Doc!
freeholder1 almost 14 years ago
Boy, doc, Spammers are capitalism at it’s purist. they want to make a buck, see an opportunity and jump right in. if you don’t love them., you aren’t really a capitalist.
Capitalism works fine in a socialist setting in Red China right now. And Communism is still going strong in China, Vietnam, Cuba and France.
PS: Communism has it’s origin in the French Revolution. Some suggest it’s all really a brawl of English Free Mason philosophy and French Free Mason philosophy but they are also the kind who think there is pure capitalism or pure socialism. The Russian communist ideal failed because it was locked to the international monetary system and couldn’t avoid the pitfalls of trying to carry a deficit much the same as the system’s adherents couldn’t recently. The RC is going stronger than either since it literally has lured capitalists with almost free labor and free medical and “retirement” plans for workers. The mutation has shown that the “pure” of both sides can be combined for a success.
Obama was trying to emulate it with government health care and pumped up Soc Sec but the “pure’ capitalists, docs who own the Dems and Insurance Cos. that own the Repubs, pretty much gutted the try .
And the prez really stated the general American view when he said the neo-cons (not really capitalists, really greed mongers) had the car and proved they couldn’t drive.
And the oils spill demoed that BIG business, as Lew has pointed out in the past, just doesn’t function well. It gets so large it thinks it has everything covered then some jerk forgets a battery and we have several states up to their butts in oil and not in a good way.
pamlicorat almost 14 years ago
Good Morning Tanya, Ladywolf and All
The last picture is what the stock brokers & the IRS do to your investments with fees & taxes.
freeholder1 almost 14 years ago
and, yeah, Johnny, as is evident here, we all have a love hate relationship with Capitalism.
Funny how the “rich” cartoonist pointed it out.
Trainwreck_1 almost 14 years ago
Mr Editor, At this time “Vigilante de noche” which means Night Watchman would like to PASS on making any comment on this comic because anything I could offer would only serve to insight hostility!
JanLC almost 14 years ago
Interestingly enough, “capitalism” is a term coined by communists to describe the free market system. It was always intended to be a derisive label.
ChromeHead almost 14 years ago
Five Star Stupid!!! Try Cuba, dimwit.
Wildmustang1262 almost 14 years ago
You guys can have the tattoos of heart with “love”, sword stabbing the heart with “hate” and “capitalism” on your skins. I would not have the tattoos on my own flesh skin for that signs with love, hate and capitalism.
freeholder1 almost 14 years ago
Too much heat to your visionary words, Clark?
lightenup Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Wow, I’m not jumping into this mess – I come to read the comics to laugh and relax, so I’ll just say “Hello everyone!”
ububobu almost 14 years ago
I don’t think Johnny Hart would have approved of today’s strip.
fritzoid Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Maybe not, UBUBOBU, but he’s dead. What’s your point?
miccleclaz almost 14 years ago
What the heck is this rich catoonist now an anti-capitalist. Perhaps a re-loaction to China might suit them or Greece or Russia as well.
Handrew almost 14 years ago
Fritzoid is probably just being an bleeep, but just in case he really is missing UBUBOBU’s point: This is a legacy strip. Inherent in the term is a trust that the creator’s successor(s) will maintain the strip - not just its quality, but its perspective, too. What UBUBOBU is saying is that Johnny Hart, BC’s original creator, would not have created a cartoon with such an apparently anti-capitalism message - maybe because he wasn’t anti-capitalism, maybe because he didn’t feel the need to put that kind of personal opinion in his strip (this one is less likely, because Johnny Hart had no problem putting his religious perspective in BC). Saying Hart wouldn’t approve is basically saying this cartoon doesn’t fit the decades-old bigger picture of BC, something you may not care about, but something long-time fans do care about, and something Mason probably cares about on some level, too.
TheAlmightyOne almost 14 years ago
Pschearer, I give you an A+. You’ve obviously done your homework! If we could drill in Alaska, we wouldn’t have to worry about oil spils. The’re much easier to fix when on land. And correct. We don’t have a totally free economy. I heard a great example once by Walter E.Williams. He said “In a free economy, I can compete with Bill Gates with just eleven dollars. If we want to buy a steak and he bid’s $20, I can bid $11 for half a steak…In New York it now costs $600,000 for a taxi licence. This stops the average person from being able to use a car to start a private taxi service to make money to support him/her self and their family.” Thus the government is keeping those types of people poor. Great job Pschearer! Freeholder, capitalism is when the people own their property. Socialism is when the government owns everything. They cannot coexist. SCAAT, Note that one should not use Wikipedia to prove a point. Due to the fact that it can be changed by anyone. (Learned that in College). Cdward, You really didn’t prove any points. May I also point out that Socialism contributed to the fall of Rome. Fritsoid, UBUBOBU means that if Hart were alive and had read the strip, he would have rejected it. I really don’t think that cartoonists, unless they say theey are meant to be political, should write anything political in their strips, they are meant simply to entertain.
gocomicsmember almost 14 years ago
I think those of you who accuse Mason of being anti-capitalist and/or abandoning his grandfather’s ideals may be overstating the case. One can believe that capitalism is better than communism and still have a love-hate relationship with it. The problem is not with capitalism per se, but with greed, but there are unique opportunities in capitalism for greed to warp the system. That being said, the reason why communism bankrupts societies that try it is also traceable back to greed.
Charles Brobst Premium Member almost 14 years ago
And Communism is a knife in the back.
Seriously, Socialist does not mean Socialism. With Soviet Communism the State did own everything, which in practical terms meant dictatorship. But in most developed countries we see a mix of businesses large and small owned by private corporations regulated by the public. Without careful regulation you have the housing crisis, saving and loan crisis, wall street collapses, oil wells explode and pollute the ocean, and both capitalism and civilization collapses. Rather than archaic terms and unrealistic ideologies we need to govern ourselves with common sense. And this includes Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press to discuss these issues in any convenient format, which I find most entertaining.
TheAlmightyOne almost 14 years ago
True Greed can cause problems. A greedy government creates a communistic society. And communism typically kills its host nation.
fritzoid Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Personally, I think Hart betrayed his own “bigger picture” of B.C. in the last years (5? 10?) years of his production of the strip.
If you go back before he got God-bit, he put in a lot of jokes that in his dotage he wouldn’t have run. Mastroianni is, if anything, trying hard to make this strip something other than a pointless relic.
I’m neither condemning nor approving of Mason’s choice of this particular strip. I don’t think it’s pro-socialism or pro-communism, or even particularly anti-capitalism. As was stated above, it seems explicitly to lead to a “love/hate” message, which, considering some of the strips Mason did with Peter around Christmas time (who was oblivious to “Peace on Earth, Good Will to Man” when it conflicted with his making a buck), is hardly inconsistent with Christ’s teachings.
Well, maybe when Hart approved turning the strip over to his grandson, he thought it would merely be temporary. He probably figured he was only going to be gone three days…
pattybf almost 14 years ago
I can’t believe I am flagging spammers at 9 p.m. Give me a break!!
pswhitlark almost 14 years ago
Wrong ‘ism’! ‘Nuff said!!
ellisaana Premium Member almost 14 years ago
It is always surprising how many people mix up Communism and Socialism.
They are NOT the same.
travburg1 almost 14 years ago
If you are not somewhat liberal when you are young, you have no heart; if you are not conservative when you are old, you have no brain.
Forgot who said that, but I agree.
oranaiche almost 14 years ago
@Travis:
“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.” - Winston Churchill
source
bsisler21 almost 14 years ago
Why is it that people who have the public’s eye feel they have the right to push their political views on their readers. I for one will not be reading this strip again.
DolphinGirl78 almost 14 years ago
bscomics: We’re all entitled to our opinions, including you… If you happen to not like a comment, just skip it and move on… that’s what the rest of us do…