Comments (46) Jump to Comments Form

1. 

   Jase99 said, 5 months ago

   I find it more than a little hypocritical that most “pro-life” politicians oppose most legislation and spending that would make an impoverished child’s life better after it’s born. They don’t want you to prevent pregnancy and expect you to carry to term, but after it’s born you’re on your own.

2. 

   Greeneyed Texan said, 5 months ago

   I find it sad that a woman during an emotional and stressful time of her life gets lead into an abortion clinic to end it rather than allow the baby to be put up for adoption. I have known too many women that later regreted and felt too much shame for those actions. Most of these women were just scared and didn’t know what to do with the future. Given another chance they would NOT have had the abortion though. At least that is what they have told Me.

3. 

   danielsangeo said, 5 months ago

   “I find it sad that a woman during an emotional and stressful time of her life gets lead into an abortion clinic to end it rather than allow the baby to be put up for adoption.”

   I find it sad that most anti-choicers think that abortion clinics do NOT give the option for adoption. In fact, Planned Parenthood, long considered the bane of most anti-choicers (I don’t call them “anti-abortion” or “pro-life” because I don’t believe those labels are accurate) has been providing full adoption services. If a woman chooses to give her baby up for adoption after it’s born, she can do it on site.

   The problem with anti-choicers is that they’re not against abortion. They attack (for example, a pregnant woman was pushed and her fetus was killed by an anti-choicer) women who aren’t even considering abortion simply because she’s entering a clinic. They’ve taken fetuses who, for whatever reason, were aborted and they’ve thrown them at people. They hold up pictures of bloody dismembered corpses of embryos and fetuses without explaining the history of said pictures, attempting to claim that this is what happens in so-called voluntary abortion.

   Adoption is always given as an option prior to abortion. However, what is NOT told by these anti-choicers is that adoption means foster care. There are many hundreds of thousands of children that live, bouncing in and out of homes (or never getting a foster parent at all). In 2000-2001, less than a quarter of those in foster care are adopted. The number has remained at a near constant rate of 127,000/year for the over 540,000 in foster care facilities.

   What anti-choicers do NOT say is that, if even 10% of the “aborted babies” were to enter foster care, that would add over 100,000 people into foster care each year. If abortion were made illegal and pregnant women were to be required to put their babies up for adoption after they’re born, then millions would enter foster care each year.

   Can you tell me who’s going to handle this sudden influx? Anti-choicers?

4. 

   cdward said, 5 months ago

   danielsangeo, well argued.

   Greeneyedtxn, for every woman I’ve encountered who has regretted having an abortion, I’ve met two who are glad they did have it. I’ve met at least as many who have regretted NOT having an abortion. Their reasons are many, but let me tell you, THAT is tragic.
   
   My point is that every decision someone makes in the case of an unwanted pregnancy is fraught with peril. There are no easy answers, but please don’t paint it as if all a woman has to do is put the unwanted child up for adoption and all will be well. It just ain’t so.

5. 

   Simon_Jester said, 5 months ago

   Anyone here remember Eric Rudolph. the guy who planted that bomb at the Atlanta Olympics?

   When he was on the run from the law, some folks were giving him shelter, and others were planting ‘Go Eric’ signs in their yard.

   That’s because Rudolph also bombed abortion clinics, and that made him such a hero to the uber-militant anti-choice crowd, they didn’t care WHAT the ( bleep!) else he did.

6. 

   Simon_Jester said, 5 months ago

   daniel…about you last question. Typical of the response I get from anti-choicers when I ask them that is what a guy I used to work with once told me, , “If you don’t want to have kids, don’t have sex.” ( In slighlty stronger language. )

7. 

   hlp54 said, 5 months ago

   The so-called “pro-life” people are anything but - Many also want to get rid of birth control ie. morning after pill to start. I sometime think it is mostly but not all men who feel it’s a woman’s punishment for having sex and getting pregnant. If you listen to some talk shows the men are the ones calling in against choice. The Dr Tiller who was murdered also performed abortions on women who would have had to carry dead fetuses to term and young 10 or 11 yr old girls who had been raped or victims of incest and wasn’t found out until too late for early treatment. They’re not thinking of the child - as one said there are many thousands in foster care and not cared about - never mind all the ones starving in countries like Africa and India. They need to spend their time and money on the ones aready living. And to those who say pregnancy is safer than abortion don’t realize women STILL die in childbirth sometimes.
   It will never be outlawed because women will do what they’ve always done - go to illegal abortionists or do it themselves and many died or were severely injured. I know this partly because I am 72 and was around when it was illegal and also my grandmother and great grandmother were midwives.

8. 

   Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

   It should also be pointed out that the anti-choicers who demand that a woman devote several months to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term are probably ignorant of the dangers of pregnancy and delivery. There are many things that can go wrong with both, and even an uncomplicated pregnancy is bleeep close to a disease state, with all the changes it brings to the woman’s body.

   But that’s okay with the anti-choicers, because they care nothing for the woman.

9. 

   Herbabee said, 5 months ago

   I like it, the term seems to be catching on.

   Lookin’ out for a bumper sticker proudly proclaiming:

   “WE VOTE ANTI-CHOICE!”

10. 

    Corosive Frog said, 5 months ago

    I have two words to describe the anti-choice men; womb envy.

    “Don’t f*uck if you don’t want kids” but that, of course, only works for girls.

11. 

    TrickyPickle said, 5 months ago

    Nonsense. Shame on all of you for promoting useless extremist views. The pro-life nutjobs who throw dead fetuses, shoot doctors and bomb clinics are just that: nutjobs. The pro-choicers who claim that all pro-lifers are hateful, ignorant, control freak monsters are ALSO nutjobs. This is an unresolved contemporary moral issue and no matter which side of the fence you’re on, the other side has VALID arguments. It isn’t about taking away a woman’s rights, it’s about giving rights to unborn children. If you’ve drawn the line of humanity at conception, then abortion is murder. If you’ve drawn that line at birth, then it isn’t. That’s the fence. Some believe that there’s enough evidence of humanity before birth to give the child rights, and some believe that the evidence is too weak, and do not think we have any responsibility or obligation to help the mass of cells that is not yet human, far less give it rights equal to the mother’s. You are not an idiot if you believe either! You’re only an idiot if you think you’re ‘right’ and the other side is ‘wrong’.

12. 

    PlainBill said, 5 months ago

    TrickyPickle, Two words: Randall Terry. About as main-stream as you can get in the anti-choice movement.

13. 

    dtroutma said, 5 months ago

    The point of the ‘toon IS those holding the stick with the carrot, who deny their roles in violence. The jerks with knees reactions to Sotomayor’s nomination, those egging on “anti-choicers”, or stimulating attacks on Army recruiting offices are ALL the same cowards and hate mongers.

    Free speech is indeed basic, but it does NOT defend shouting “fire!” in a crowded theatre, or verbally throwing gasoline on a smoldering fire of resentment. Maybe the courts do need to look more aggressively at those promoting violence, not just those committing it?

14. 

    fritzoid said, 5 months ago

    “Unborn children” is a contradiction in terms. Are you talking about foetuses, embryos, fertilized eggs? If life begins at conception, then the standard, run-of-the-mill birth control pill, which allows fertilization but prevents implantation, is morally equivalent to strangling a newborn.

15. 

    Tigger said, 5 months ago

    Why do ‘Pro Lifers’ Support the Death Penalty? Why is one life more important to them than another?

    Great Point fritz

    Using Condoms also Kills Babies.

16. 

    danielsangeo said, 5 months ago

    “pro-choicers who claim that all pro-lifers”

    Here we go again. Where has ANYONE said “all pro-lifers”?

    I use the term “anti-choicers” to define a very small, very belligerent, very vocal subgroup in the pro-life movement.

17. 

    tpenna said, 5 months ago

    First, let me qualify what I am about to say with this: I am pro-choice and anti-abortion. That is, I believe abortion is a terribly tragic thing that should be kept safe and legal and made as rare as possible.

    I think a lot of people here are missing the very strong point that TrickyPickle has made. Painting with such a broad brush (by either side) may be personally satisfying and even good for raising funds, but it is not helpful to the overall debate. We all need to recognize that there are those on both sides of the debate who have valid arguments in this matter.

    It is not a simple matter, no matter what John McCain seemed to claim at the Saddleback Forum.

18. 

    deadheadzan said, 5 months ago

    Henrie made some important points when describing the women who were seeking late term abortions. Anyone that would be forced to carry an already deceased fetus extra time certainly has my sympathy. That just is not right. And some of the rhetoric by the anti-choice people inflames people that have rage issues to go out and commit acts of violence against abortion providers.

19. 

    Right_On said, 5 months ago

    “Using Condoms also Kills Babies.”

    Only if you stretch it over the kid’s head …

20. 

    fritzoid said, 5 months ago

    Mandatory sex education in public schools (beginning at an early age; I learned the biology involved when I was in 6th grade). Heck, mandatory sex education in PRIVATE schools, including the home-schooled. None of this “Abstinence Only” garbage either; ask Bristol Palin how that worked out for her. And no allowing parents to pull their children from class during that unit, either.

    When I took my motorcycle lessons, they made sure we knew (a) how to avoid uncontrolled falls and swerves, as well as (b) how to respond if we found ourselves in them. By teaching us this, were the instructors condoning or even ENCOURAGING risky driving habits?

21. 

    Robert Peters said, 5 months ago

    And here we see that the right-wing extremists’ reverence for life begins at ejaculation and ends at birth.

22. 

    lbalch said, 5 months ago

    Trickypickle has it right. If I may add one point, if any government has the right to ban an act they also have the right to mandate it. i.e. killing a human being is considered murder and outlawed; unless that human being is considered an enemy of the state(a terrorist or solider of a country at war) it is than mandated that they be killed.

23. 

    cdward said, 5 months ago

    Trickypickle has it partly right. There are at least reasonable arguments on both sides (and I stand on the side of keeping it legal and safe), and even if I disagree vehemently with arguments on one side, they deserve respect as a person.

    However, not all those criticizing anti-choicers is painting them with broad strokes.

    Ibalch, any government can mandate or ban anything if it has the power to do it. But the government decreeing something doesn’t make it right.

24. 

    IrishEddieOHara said, 5 months ago

    Truth is not hateful rhetoric. We will not tone down what happens in an abortion clinic: a baby is torn to shreds. Little arms pulled from their bodies. Legs torn off. Heads split open. The baby is 4/5 born and then a scissors is stuck in its skull and the brains are sucked out.

    That is MURDER. An innocent living being is killed for no other reason than the convenience of the mother and a man who is irresponsible and will not take care of his child.

    I really don’t care that Tony Auth or any of you liberals don’t like it. I am not going to call George Bush’s war just and legal when it is illegal and immoral and I am not going to call the killing of an innocent person any other thing than MURDER.

    And you know what? Ann Coulter had a GREAT line in her column of today regarding the whorehouse where Killer…..whooops, I mean Tiller, went to “worship”.

    ---

    The official Web page of the ELCA instructs: “A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born.” As long as we’re deciding who does and doesn’t have an “absolute right to be born,” who’s to say late-term abortionists have an “absolute right” to live?

    I wouldn’t kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn’t want to impose my moral values on others. No one is for shooting abortionists. But how will criminalizing men making difficult, often tragic, decisions be an effective means of achieving the goal of reducing the shootings of abortionists?

    Following the moral precepts of liberals, I believe the correct position is: If you don’t believe in shooting abortionists, then don’t shoot one.

    ---

    I agree. I personally wouldn’t shoot an abortionist, but who am I to say what is right or wrong for another person?

25. 

    IrishEddieOHara said, 5 months ago

    Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on a story in today’s New York Times that details how some of Bill O’Reilly’s critics are trying to blame him for the death of Dr. George Tiller:

    In all of Bill O’Reilly’s denunciations of Dr. George Tiller, he never once called for anyone to even post his address on the web, never mind call for his death. Yet O’Reilly is being blamed for Tiller’s murder. If O’Reilly’s critics had any sense of decency, or fairness, they would have long condemned what Hustler king Larry Flynt once said about the Fox News Network personality.

    On August 5, 2003, Flynt launched a National Prayer Day, calling for O’Reilly’s death. Flynt asked God “to afflict Bill O’Reilly with a brain aneurysm that will lead to his slow and painful death. O, Lord, may his blood vessels bulge out of his head and explode without mercy.”

    To my knowledge, none of O’Reilly’s foes have ever damned Flynt for this despicable comment. They therefore have zero moral capital to lash out at O’Reilly for his criticisms of a man who proudly took the lives of over 60,000 children.

26. 

    Robert Peters said, 5 months ago

    Well, considering that Faux News has more influence with right-wing extremist terrorists than Larry Flynt does with God…

27. 

    Corosive Frog said, 5 months ago

    IEOH, the gore you described makes no sense. No head can be crushed, no brains can be sucked out if they aren’t made yet, as in early abortions.

    And where do your sources come from? What doctor or nurse or patientwas reckless enough to tell that to anyone? Show a little gore on pictures and people will see what you tell them to see.

    Oh, a needle in the head is soooo cruel. Wouldn’t it be waaay better to just shove wires up their crotches?

28. 

    PUPPYSAURUS said, 5 months ago

    fritzoid: it’s none of your business what I want or don’t want my children to be taught. The Public Education system should get it’s marching orders from me, the parent. The Public School system is our servant and should obey the will of the citizens.
    Seriously, CoreFrog, some “pro-lifers” use the pictures and images from abortionist’s own training films. Remember, this stuff has to be taught somewhere, somehow, or people like the deceased Dr. Tiller couldn’t claim to be “Health professionals” and Doctors. They even sell the baby parts to research labs… You find it hard to believe but many pharmacy companies use fetal baby parts for research. This stuff is real.

29. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    Puppy: “it’s none of your business what I want or don’t want my children to be taught. The Public Education system should get it’s marching orders from me, the parent.”

    None of us want your ignorance taught to our kids, Puppy. If you want to screw up your kids’ lives to end up in the blind hatred you live with, that’s unfortunately your prerogative.

    But in no way should other children in our public education system suffer from your warped sense of morality.

30. 

    Jase99 said, 5 months ago

    The problem is that many of the parents who don’t want schools teaching sex education and pregnancy protection won’t teach their children themselves. Uneducated teens will make uneducated choices. Sticking your head in the stand won’t solve anything.

    I’m against abortion. It’s wrong and immoral. I’m just not stupid enough to think banning it or making vulgar displays of hate will ever end the practice. If you want to reduce the abortion rate, you need to focus on both pregnancy prevention and the life of the mother and child after birth. An educated and empowered woman will most likely make educated, empowered, and positive choices.

    It’s a shame most “Christian Conservatives” focus on hate and anger instead of a positive and practical approach. Christ would be appalled.

31. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    Just once I’d like to see one of the anti-choicers say something about a women who has a dead 7-month fetus inside of her.

    Obviously she shouldn’t be allowed to have an abortion, right, anti-choicers? She should just risk her life to the chance of sepsis, in order to carry her dead fetus to term.

    Why do you hate this woman for wanting to get her dead fetus out right away? Why was someone who could have helped her murdered by one of your clinic protesters?

32. 

    cdward said, 5 months ago

    There are so many threads in the comments, it’s almost hard to know where to start.

    IrishEddie, you make argue that if abortion is legal perhaps murder should be legal, too. This seems to imply that while YOU would never kill an abortion provider, you suspect it might be okay. Um, no, it’s not even okay to hint at that. For starters, we ought to all be able to agree that if someone is visible outside the womb, walking and talking (or at least moving and making noise), they are in fact alive. If they have a birth certificate, they are in fact alive and therefore protected by law. Our society recognizes a living person’s right to life. Our society also recognizes the legality of most abortions. So they are qualitatively different.

    At what moment does a person become a person? Ah, only God truly knows, but tradition talks of the moment of quickening - when a mother can feel the baby moving around. Viability also seems a good measure – the point at which a baby could likely survive unsupported outside the womb. I do not believe there is human life present right after conception.

    Jase99 is correct in saying that education is a far better way to prevent abortion than punishing frightened young women or the doctors who make sure they don’t suffer permanent physical scars (or death) by seeking back-alley abortions.

    pup, it is all of society’s business what is taught to your kids in school. Public schools are there to make sure that future citizens know what is important for our society to function. It is in our society’s interest, for example, for all our young people to know how sex works and as well as what the best methods are for preventing disease and pregnancy. For what it’s worth, those who know the science behind it are not only less likely to get pregnant but less likely to participate in the risky behavior to start with (I’ve read it but can’t site it right now. Will look for link.)

33. 

    TrickyPickle said, 5 months ago

    If you’ve read all the responses after my previous post, and boil it all down to basic arguments, then you should see what I pointed out as the dividing fence coming out in spades. Pro-choicers believe that humanity begins at birth. Therefore there is nothing immoral about killing a fetus. They never refer to a fetus as a child or unborn child. Pro-lifers believe that life begins at conception. Therefore abortion is the killing of a child. The rest is all semantics, emotional responses and specious argument. No sane person condones killing innocents and neither side advocates murder of any kind. If you must argue, then you must argue only in the context of the ‘fence’. When do you think a human is a human? Is it immediately as it becomes fertilize?If so then you can not only never abort, you can’t use birth control pills either. Is it in the first trimester? The second? Not until birth? People will never form a consensus on this, as picking a point is arbitrary. I think most people can agree that at some point before birth a fetus becomes human, but at WHAT point is that? BOTH sides’ nutcases have done awful things. Let’s not paint either movement with the same brush as that movement’s extremists. No rational person is advocating murdering doctors or chopping up nearly born kids. Remember, in the end you aren’t arguing against monsters, just people with a different opinion on the fence.

    @Pup: I’d have to go with this: If it’s a public school, then it should teach whatever is the consensus of the majority of the public. If that means sex-ed in kindergarten then that’s how it is. If we don’t like it, we can always choose private institutions. My personal feeling is that it’s okay for teens to know about pregnancy and safe sex. I ALSO believe that teenagers are by and large not ready ready for the implications and consequences of the act and should be encouraged to wait until they are ready. That’s how I plan to raise my little girls anyway, wish me luck!

34. 

    danielsangeo said, 5 months ago

    “Truth is not hateful rhetoric. We will not tone down what happens in an abortion clinic: a baby is torn to shreds.”

    These two statements are in direct conflict with each other. One claims it is speaking the truth and the other speaks lies.

35. 

    Simon_Jester said, 5 months ago

    But since it when is it YOUR business what every OTHER kid your child’s class is taught, sockpuppy?

36. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    “They never refer to a fetus as a child or unborn child.”

    They never refer to an acorn as an ungrown tree, either.

    They don’t even refer to a slice of bread as untoasted toast.

    Pro-choicers are funny like that.

37. 

    dtroutma said, 5 months ago

    LOL, Coulter casting aspersions on whores!

38. 

    tpenna said, 5 months ago

    Good idea, DPR! Done! :-)

39. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    One thing I miss about the old format is have the text of the last post shown at the top of the page to the right of the comic.

    It made it easy to see if any new posts had been added without having to scroll to the bottom.

40. 

    fritzoid said, 5 months ago

    Is the “Browse Recent Comments” option still available someplace I can’t find it, or has it gone away entirely?

41. 

    Jase99 said, 5 months ago

    Dredpiraterobts, use the “Home” key on your keyboard to jump back to the top of the page, “End” to jump to the bottom, and “Page Up” or “Page Down” to move one screen’s worth at a time.

42. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    Actually I use either that or Jase’s method, Dred. But it’s still an extra step compared to the previous version, multiplied by the number of times I look at these threads.

43. 

    PUPPYSAURUS said, 5 months ago

    What is “hateful rhetoric”? Man are we close to the edge. Free speech doesn’t mean you have the right to be “Not offended”. Nor does one man’s position put a gun in another man’s hand. Yet we are living in a time where a women got charged for taking part in a “crime” since the young girl committed suicide possibly arising out of this women’s mis-deeds (on-line hooliganism). The Age of “Feel Good” Verdicts. And you Libs are going to pick the Justices…hah!
    You all make really good arguments for why I should allow other people to have their children “aborted.” Too bad it doesn’t change the heinousness and cruelty of the act of casually aborting their off-spring. You may seek Legal absolution for your conscience , but , unfortunately, that don’t help alot of women who have trusted your “good intentions” and had their babies aborted and regretted it afterwards. Where’s their civil right not to be led ignorsantly into the murder of their own child? I’ve already conceded the power of “abortion” to the individual woman, God help me, as that seems the most practical, so I agree with TrickyPickle. Unlike alot of my pro-life brethren, I did not see the outcome of the Terry Schiavo case as being preventable by the most reasonable legal measures authorities and family could take (although I do not know why the Husband couldn’t have surrendered the authority over Terry’s legal representation to her family - But,I don’t think the right of authority of the husband for his wife’s health should be taken from him unless extenuating or malicious intent could be proven). This extends to a women’s right over her pregnancy, too. I don’t think we (the government)should pay for it though.
    Public schools should be responsive to the reasonable requests of the parents in the community. If the Public Education System can’t deliver that over-sight they shouldn’t ask for a citizen’s money. That’s taxation without representation.

44. 

    Anthony 2816 said, 5 months ago

    Puppy, regarding paying for a woman’s abortion: It’s a heckuva lot cheaper that paying for a pregnancy, delivery, aftercare, and adoption.

45. 

    M Kitt said, 5 months ago

    “Gay marriage is just another wedge issue, as so many do this one has religion at it’s core. The more religiously inspired constrictions that can be placed on society the more willing the public will be to accept the religious element as a part of their daily lives………the GOP once again blurring the line between cause and effect.” Same for abortion, more pandering by the “moral majority” (as if) to drag the rest of us into their church-inspired beliefs.

46. 

    Jase99 said, 5 months ago

    Dredpiraterobts, on the standard Windows keyboard, the “Home” key is one of the six keys right above the cursor keys. On my Windows keyboard it’s directly below Scroll Lock. On my Mac G5 keyboard, it’s directly below F15

    On the numeric key pad, the 7 key functions as the Home key when Number Lock is deactivated.