Tony Auth by Tony Auth

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danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

ANandy: Which Constitutional Power gives the Executive Branch and the Commander-in-Chief the authority to break national and international law by committing war crimes?

I must have missed that section.
Simon_Jester said, 6 months ago

You don’t understand…ANandy thinks the first words in the Consitution are, “Thou Shalt Not…”

I warned you guys didn’t I? The attention is already beginning to shift from Pelosi to Cheney.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Where’s the war crime? Yes the attention is drifting Jester, and Cheney’s approval is growing quickly
Simon_Jester said, 6 months ago

For now Howgozit…but I predict that will not hold.
cjkinsey said, 6 months ago

Howg, The war crime is waterboarding. A practice for which we executed Japanese soldiers after WWII.
fennec said, 6 months ago

David Brooks, the conservative commentator, has an interesting one today on the Cheney phenomenon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/opinion/22brooks.html?ref=global
You might find it enlightening, Howie.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Three thugs were waterboarded–you bleeding hearts make it sound like hundreds have been “tortured.” So why did Broken Obama suppress memos that stated GTMO has been successful?
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

Obama flipps and flops with reality of what he can do and what he wants to do and what is the right thing to do. He is slowing seeing the realiuty that their are bad people and we must do what we can to protect ourself from him. He is also seeing that I am not W, W was bad see, has blown up in his face.
Chaney goes on the attack and walks us threw what was done and why we did it and the benefit we got from it. And Tony can not have that so lets keep the stereo type of him bad and constitution was violated on a guy who has no protection under that document.
nomad2112 said, 6 months ago

The terrorists committed the war crimes and redefining “water boarding” as torture does not make it so. Where is the blood and broken bones? The people doing these “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” are not stupid. If they didn’t work as some of the Leftist Thugs in the Media and the government have claimed, they wouldn’t be used.
lalas said, 6 months ago

Wow! HQ your grasp of English is pretty thin. It gives your (weak) argument the feeling that if we were face-to-face you’d be sputtering and gasping for breath.

Once upon a time the Republicans were the party of “law and order” now it’s just “follow orders.”
Anthony 2816 said, 6 months ago

Oh, it was only three? No problem, then. If you only do something three times, it isn’t a crime, right?
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

“The terrorists committed the war crimes and redefining “water boarding” as torture does not make it so.”

No. Your side is the one redefining water bording as NOT being torture.

“Where is the blood and broken bones?”

Oh, is THAT the only thing that’s torture in your world?

“The people doing these “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” are not stupid.”

Nice politically correct term for torture there, nomad. They’re not stupid, you’re right. They were told by the Bush Administration to get certain “confessions” that lined up with the Bush Administration policies.

“If they didn’t work as some of the Leftist Thugs in the Media and the government have claimed, they wouldn’t be used.”

Yep. They work so well, it required waterboarding someone over a hundred times.

Can you tell me where you draw the line, nomad? Let’s take the favorite canard of the “ticking time bomb”. If you have someone who knows where a bomb is that will kill hundreds of thousands of people, and it’ll go off in an hour, and the ONLY way to find out where it is is to bring in the 2-year-old son of the terrorist and rape him in front of the terrorist, would you do it?

After all, it leaves no broken bones or blood on the terrorist, does it?
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

Oh I don’t know what is a little water aerobics to redefining terrorist and terrorist activity? Lets call them a “man made bad things happen” and and “that guy is someone who disagrees with us.”
Then you win because there is no longer a war on terrorist?
And Danial I dis regard your premises. We are talking about well defined and refined activities that were well monitored and used. They got results and did not harm. Nothing more then we have done to our own to train them.
So you going to the lowest filthiest thing you can think of does not apply here!
In the context of reality that I have laid out and not some make believe fantasy of the left. You better believe I think we should use all the tools we have to keep our country safe!
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

lals wa I speak in a stream. Don’t like it don’t post or read it. Complaing about it and not what is is about just makes you look trollish.
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

“Oh I don’t know what is a little water aerobics to redefining terrorist and terrorist activity?”

Oh, I don’t know, let’s redefine torture into something that sounds FUN! Let’s call it “water aerobics”! It’s not the rack! It’s “muscle stretching!” Stretching is good before exercise, right? No, don’t call it an iron maiden! It is “full body acupuncture”.

Give me a break, harley.

“Then you win because there is no longer a war on terrorist? ”

You can’t fight a war on terrorism. Terrorism is a tactic used by people. You have to stop terrorism by making them powerless. You don’t do that by validating their cause through torture!

“And Danial I dis regard your premises.”

Oh, I know you do. You can’t handle me going to another “filthy” thing that you happen to agree with me that’s filthy… just like your disgusting “water aerobics”.

“We are talking about well defined and refined activities that were well monitored and used.”

Well, that makes it okay, then?

“They got results and did not harm.”

Hogwash! Not only do “water aerobics” cause psyhcological trauma for years, causing near death causes PHYSICAL trauma such as tachycardia which can lead to heart attacks and death.

The man interrogating Abu Zubaydah said that he was getting good and real actionable intelligence from Zubaydah…until he was subjected to “water aerobics”. It doesn’t work and I can’t believe we’re even HAVING this discussion!

“Nothing more then we have done to our own to train them.”

No. Not the same thing, at all.

“So you going to the lowest filthiest thing you can think of does not apply here!”

So, you see my point, then. Using the “ticking time bomb” to excuse filth does not apply. Thank you.

“You better believe I think we should use all the tools we have to keep our country safe!”

So, you’d rather destroy the values of our country and what makes it great so that you’re safe?

Coward.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Ramble on daniels for it takes one to call one.
Corosive Frog said, 6 months ago

HQ, don’t lose your time writing if it’s not to be read.
longtimecomicsfan said, 6 months ago

It’s a relief that the President of the United States is no longer sending attorneys to argue before the Supreme Court that he has the power to arrest and detain American citizens indefinitely, without charging that a crime has been committed, and without holding a trial to establish guilt, simply by signing a memo that names the citizen as an “enemy combatant.”

By not charging that a crime has been committed, the Presidency sidesteps the legislature, and by not granting a trial, the executive sidesteps the judiciary, rendering the decision, in effect, the act of a dictator.

How great is it that the complete suspension of our Constitutional rights as citizens is no longer forced on us as protection against terrorists?

I’m glad that our new administration is upholding the American tradition of embracing our values, even at the cost of our safety. When the British came over to shoot us for wanting independence, we said “Give me liberty or give me death,” and “those who surrender liberty for security shall have neither.” Not, “We’re doing this to protect you.”

Anybody who says that just doesn’t get America.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

You are right Anthony–it should not have been a problem
Corosive Frog said, 6 months ago

Use your logics instead of just believing what your masters tell you, righties. If waterboarding worked so well, why would they have to do it 83 times?

There is a reason other than efficiency that would make the army waterboard somebody 83 times; cruelty. You can very easily turn somebody, anybody of us, into a monster.

Although soldiers diserve lots of respect for protecting their coutries, they are not the flawless heroes righties think they are. The Human Being is just not that beautiful. Under the stress of war, any person can turn into a cruel raping, torturing, killing monster.

In fact, it can take much less than that. check the Stanford Prison Experiment, one of the most infamous scientific experiments that ever took place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_experiment)

It’s human nature. It’s what turned nazi guards into what they were. Being christian, american or westerner is no vaccine against the evil we all have inside.
longtimecomicsfan said, 6 months ago

I AM concerned, however, that I’ve posted on the American legal system (including the UCMJ) for three consecutive days.

During the Spanish Inquisition, guilt was established by accusation, and torture was designed to force a confession, which determined the severity of the penalty.

Our system is based on the idea that you have a right to face your accusers and have a fair trial to determine guilt.

That’s the problem with rounding up prisoners, with no charges or trials, and starting with the “harsh interrogations” to get information - they’re already guilty, there is no way out, and the torture will make them say what you want them to say, or die.

It they’re the enemy, then shoot them. If they’ve committed crimes, then try them and lock them up. And if they have information, question them. It’s not rocket science.
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

“Ramble on daniels for it takes one to call one.”

I’m not the one calling for the destruction of all that makes America great due to fear. Our boys and girls fight and die to uphold American values and this is how you guys on the right repay them? By betraying everything that America stood for and what they fought and died for?

But, pardon me for speaking a bit too much.
Anthony 2816 said, 6 months ago

Interesting that evangelical christians are more likely to support torture than the non-religious. Guess their religion makes them better at rationalizing.

http://tinyurl.com/r8qa89
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

daniels–I spent 30 years in the military–don’t give me this garbage about “repaying” them. Where have I shown betrayal to my shipmates daniels? Bush was and is popular among the armed forces daniels, but I do not expect you to see or agree. It is not your speaking too much it is your demeaning of anyone that favors some things the Bush Administration did concerning terrorists. I don’t like war, and I defend your right to speak, but don’t accuse me of being a coward, betrayer and against things America stands for.
Corosive Frog said, 6 months ago

Anthony; It’s because of that good vs. evil mentality. Everyone who has it (and they are not all christians) presumes they are on the good side and therefore whatever horror you do to the evil side, it can’t be evil. They think they are imunized against evil.

Now if you realize that evil is part of us all, you are more likely to watch what you do.
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

“It is not your speaking too much it is your demeaning of anyone that favors some things the Bush Administration did concerning terrorists.”

Even if those “things the Bush Administration did” were illegal and considered war crimes according to United States and International Law?

“I don’t like war, and I defend your right to speak, but don’t accuse me of being a coward, betrayer and against things America stands for.”

When you excuse and/or promote torture of anyone, even terrorists, you betray America and everything that it stands for. When we excuse and/or promote torture (even if you don’t call it that and use euphemisms like “water aerobics” or “enhanced interrogation”), you are no longer promoting American values. You are promoting the values of the terrorists.

I hear, over and over again, that “the terrorists would do it to us” and that’s exactly my point. We become what we’re trying to fight.

So, yes. Regardless of the popularity of a president, regardless of the time you spent in the military, if you seek to destroy American values and promote the values of terrorists because you’re scared of what a terrorist might do, then I will call you just what you are:

A coward.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Pompous daniels–your name calling belittles EVERYTHING you post. A coward–I am far from it but don’t expect your feeble mind to see that daniels. You are just an old an bitter left winger with loads of BS
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

What would you call someone who turns their back on American values to promote the actions and policies of terrorists?
deadheadzan said, 6 months ago

Do not become the dragon when trying to fight the dragon. Words by Nietchiz- excuse the spelling, please. It has come out that a lot of the waterboarding done was to tie Al Quaida to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. Cheney simply had to have this done to justify the invasion. All this squandering of precious lives and billions of dollars. Cheney became the dragon. I remember when Iraq was such an important balance of power in dealing with Iran and when Rumsfield was Saadam’s buddy.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

FYI daniels “coward” is described as someone lacking courage in the face of danger, difficulty, opposition or pain; an ingnobly frightened or timid person. Hardly our brave military you call a coward for backing Bush policies.
dtroutma said, 6 months ago

Among the MIS uses of the Constitution is the fact that the President is ONLY “Commander in Chief” of the military AFTER Congress formally declares war. A much abused clause.
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

Oh, I don’t know, let’s redefine torture into something that sounds FUN! Let’s call it “water aerobics”! It’s not the rack! It’s “muscle stretching!” Stretching is good before exercise, right? No, don’t call it an iron maiden! It is “full body acupuncture”.

yeb can not keep there own sick fantasies out of reality. Have to go that extra mile and push for something that is in human from what our guys did.
Next up it was not a be heading they did to us it was just a little neck rub.
The destruction of America due to fear? Oh I see we need to go back to they way Clinton ignored the attack on the cole and how about the 1st atack on the twin towers. Lets just put our head back in the sand and not even mention the word terrorism or heaven forbid put the word Muslim in front of it!
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

“What would you call…” Sometimes a hero, but you cannot comprehend daniels.
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

lol
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

What would you call someone who turns their back on American values to promote the actions and policies of terrorists?
Obama by giving propiganda talking points to the ones who want to kill us by
a) Going around his 1st 100 days saying he is sorry for what America is. The Muslim terrorist love this. They think it shows how weak we are. The USA was wrong. see he says so. That is why we must fight them till they are under our law.
b) Trying to prop himself up and say I am not W I will not do this. By showing the world our methods to extract information. In doing so they just point and say look their great leader says they do this. this is what they want to do to you.
Anthony 2816 said, 6 months ago

Harley, I would call that person nothing more than a figment of your perverted imagination.

You really, really need to stop blinding yourself to what happened during the Bush years.

“turns their back on American values”? Bush.

“They think it shows how weak we are.” No. It shows them that we aren’t the enemy they imagined.

“That is why we must fight them till they are under our law.” No. That will never happen. Stop fantasizing.

“By showing the world our methods to extract information.”

We need to show the world that we don’t use the terrorist methods of Cheney. Otherwise, how do we differ ourselves from the terrorists? That’s the question that you never answer, Harley.

C’mon, Harley…make yourself an American citizen, instead of the travesty that you are.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

I DO FENNEC–BUT THAT WOULD NOT INCLUDE DANIELS CALLING ME A COWARD!
harleyquinn said, 6 months ago

“That is why we must fight them till they are under our law.” No. That will never happen. Stop fantasizing.

It is not my fantasy but those who wish us harm. Have you forgotten?
Oh That is right the world loves us now Obama is in power. Sorry my bad.

“By showing the world our methods to extract information.”
We need to show the world that we don’t use the terrorist methods of Cheney. Otherwise, how do we differ ourselves from the terrorists? That’s the question that you never answer, Harley.”

So by showing them only the hand picked look how bad W was can we do this. I mean lets not show them how they were cleaned up and are gaining weight. Or even heaven forbid the pay off from a “torture method” that leaves them with all their fingers.
We are different! I have not seen one Muslim holly man hung up over a bridge. I have not seen one beheading. And the strange part is I acutely support reaching out to those who want to make peace. I have also said it here many times. We can not stop this war they started. Only those Muslim who wish peace who can rangle in there extremist can!

C’mon, Harley…make yourself an American citizen, instead of the travesty that you are.

C/mon you bleeding harts grow up and face the real world were there are whole countries that would take great pleasure in our down fall. They have wanted to do this as far back as anyone can remember. Or have you forgotten the debalicale that was Carter!
Oh I forgot in your world view all evil comes from a bush. sorry to try to open your eyes.
I done I guess I need to do my chanting to purge all these negative thoughts
change hope change hope umm um
Anthony 2816 said, 6 months ago

If the chanting helps, go for it.
Corosive Frog said, 6 months ago

When Bin Laden bombed the Cole, Clinton made him the world’s most wanted man but just didn’t find him. When Osama destroyed WTC, W had to search for a guy already wanted, turned two countries and their neighbors inside out, but couldn’t find him even though he used to be buddy buddy with his family.
BAC104 said, 6 months ago

Cheney is a war criminal, his fingerprints are all over the tortured prisoners at Gitmo. We are safer now that he and Bush are out of office, but that said they should still be tried for war crimes.
longtimecomicsfan said, 6 months ago

You know HarleyQ, if you rant long enough, you usually get pretty close to the heart of the matter.

You said “…there are whole countries that would take great pleasure in our down fall. They have wanted to do this as far back as anyone can remember.”

And that’s the point. Just because there are countries that would like to see our downfall, is no reason to abandon our Constitution, or our legal rights as citizens, or our moral outrage at countries that commit torture.

We didn’t do that during the Cold War, we didn’t do it during Korea, Viet Nam or Gulf War I. And yet, NO former executives are on TV arguing that by not torturing German prisoners, FDR made the country less safe.
Simon_Jester said, 6 months ago

Awwwww, whassa matter HOWGOZIT?

Don’t you like the taste of your own medicine?

The torture issue goes far beyond Gitmo…and waterboarding. There was a least one detainee who died under interrogation at Bagram, a taxi driver whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Wow–you found one Jester. And no I do not like being called a coward. I haven’t called names except liberal, leftist or democrat–far cry from coward.
steve1945 said, 6 months ago

Auth you pathetic old left-wing stooge. You really are no longer an editorial cartoonist but are now just a hack propagandist for Obama ….why don’t you just give everyone a high 5, whichs looks a lot like the Hitler salute???
Simon_Jester said, 6 months ago

Ohhh yes you have, Howdy. Remember the time you told me , ‘up yours.’ when I asked you a question you didn’t want to answer?

Not precisely name-calling, but very much in the same spirit, I think

It just never ceases to get a laugh out of me, every time I hear some rightie thump his chest and proclaim that only the conservatives are tough and stong enough to deal with terrorism…and then lose it coz someone called him a ( gasp! ) NAME.

There was more than one detainee who died, btw. ( Google ‘Taguba Report’ )

And then there are the allegations that waterboarding was used to obtain false confession of a link between al-Qaeda and Saddam. That deserves at least the same scrutiny as the Whitewater Scandal, in my opinion.
motivemagus said, 6 months ago

Whitewaterboarding scandal, Simon?

What ticks me off is how the right is frantically trying to pretend that torture isn’t torture. No one seems to respond when I remind that we EXECUTED Japanese officers for doing precisely what we have been doing. Where is our moral superiority, then?

And even that isn’t the best argument. The best argument is this: Torture doesn’t work. Not at all. The CIA knows it, the Army knows it, psychologists know it. Only Cheney and the Bush apparatchiks don’t seem to know it.
deadheadzan said, 6 months ago

First Cheney says waterboarding isn’t torture, then Newt Gingrich says, whatever”but Pelosi signed off on it anyway.” So there are 2 ways of telling lies and confusing the issue. Don’t let these guys take center stage with their deceptions. Keep it simple- fix the economy and work on torture gate, not as the main issue, but as an on-going issue.
HOWGOZIT said, 6 months ago

Oh you mean the 7-up commercial–not quite being a coward Jester
danielsangeo said, 6 months ago

danielsangeo: “What would you call someone who turns their back on American values to promote the actions and policies of terrorists?”

HOWGOZIT: “Sometimes a hero, but you cannot comprehend daniels.”

I don’t think I need to say anymore.

harleyquinn: “Clinton ignored the attack on the cole”

No, he didn’t. We found out who did the attack on the Cole during the Bush Administration.

“and how about the 1st atack on the twin towers.”

Those guys are in jail.

“Lets just put our head back in the sand and not even mention the word terrorism or heaven forbid put the word Muslim in front of it!”

Possibly because terrorism doesn’t have anything to do with the religion and everything to do with extremist philosophy? You do know they are only using religion as a tool, right? Religion is no more or less immoral than guns. It’s who uses the religion/gun to attack others that’s at fault, not the religion/gun.

“By showing the world our methods to extract information. In doing so they just point and say look their great leader says they do this. this is what they want to do to you.”

Actually, no, because we don’t do that anymore. What you say would be true…if we continued those policies. By showing the world what the previous administration did and saying, “We don’t do that anymore,” we work to turn the moderates to our side and, hopefully, turn the moderates against the extremists. I don’t know about you, harleyquinn, but I’d like to have the moderates (for which there are millions) on our side on this fight, instead of turning against us.