Tom Toles by Tom Toles

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dtroutma said, 4 months ago

Tom left the guy’s NRA hat off. As a gun owner, LaPierre makes me VERY nervous. Given the pull NRA has in Congress, I’d say folks can pretty much ignore health care, they won’t live to make it to the hospital.
HUMPHRIES said, 4 months ago

dtroutma, the NRA isn’t nearly as big a problem as the attitude, of far too many, that firearms possesion equates to adulthood and physical equality.
Bill Ewing said, 4 months ago

The target should be on a Thomas Nast genre fat cat government official.

THAT, gentlemen is what the 2nd Amendment is all about. A little factoid you never seem to get straight. Also, that pesky Amendment just happens to protect your right and ability to spout your inanities.

As to adulthood: There are a lot more responsible adult weapon owners and NRA members than in the entire Congress of the US of A.

As to physical equality: Another misconception. It has never been about physical equality. It has been about leveling the playing field for the average citizen against the madding crowd of the political/ruling class.

You gentlemen may wish to correct you aim toward the people that are more deserving or your attention, i.e., The Congress/White House, et. al.

WKE, MSgt USAF (Ret)
CCP owner and NRA member
Dmajor said, 4 months ago

Yes, I feel so much safer, so protected against any possible tyranny by the Federal Government, or maybe some out-of-control Governor, because there’s a bunch of guys with automatic rifles in their closets and trucks. Oh yes indeed, that’ll stop ‘em. You bet. My right to free speech is being protected because the NRA is making sure that there is an ever-increasing number of nitwits with guns. Yeah, the Supreme Court tramples my right to be secure in my home and papers and… what? the moron militia is going to flood the streets to take on the 82nd Airborne? Yeah, that’ll work.

Hey Sarge, what if I’m more afraid of the gun owners than of Federal Tyranny?
cdward said, 4 months ago

Dmajor, you may have a point. More Americans are killed by (legal) gun owners every year than by the Federal government.

The question is, what exactly are these guns supposed to protect us against? Intruders? A good alarm system connected to the police works better and more reliably. The government? Don’t make me laugh. A mugger? Aside from the likelihood of getting yourself shot first…

Besides, if you’re Christian, the point is moot. Jesus says if someone tries to steal from you, give them more than they demand. All the guns simply show a lack of faith.

Having said that, shooting a gun is kind of fun, and I like shooting at targets. But for protection?
motivemagus said, 4 months ago

The First Amendment protects your right and mine to spout inanities, not the Second. That’s why it is first. Too bad the NRA doesn’t support that one the way it does the Second.
As I’ve mentioned before, the NRA seems to have a limited idea of what the Second Amendment is about, and I’m not just talking about the “well-regulated militia.” It seems to limit its focus to firearms, as many and as powerful as possible. If they really believed in “arms,” they might also like, oh, swords, maces, nunchuku, throwing stars, polearms – all of which are illegal in most states. Funny how they only defend the most Freudian weaponry.
dwyant said, 4 months ago

High gun sales are symtomatic of the deeper problem – an oppressive socialist federal government that keeps taking away our liberties and is getting worse! You had better be very fearful of that over citizens concerned about losing their freedom.
Anthony 2816 said, 4 months ago

I don’t understand why the NRA claims the 2nd amendment gives us the right to own and use guns with multi-shot clips, revolvers, assault rifles with laser sights, etc., but not bazookas, shoulder-mounted ground-to-air missiles, or shoulder-mounted tactical nuclear weapons.

None of these weapons existed when the second amendment was written, so it’s impossible that the authors intended them to be included. The only reason modern hand guns and rifles are included is because of conservative judicial activism.

But if the reason they’re included is for us to form militias to fight a tyrannical government, then why not include the missile and nuclear weapons? Surely they’d be more valuable in such a fight than a pistol.

Very inconsistent and arbitrary, NRA.
ezdeb said, 4 months ago

DWyant, please provide just a lil’ backup to your broad, cliche-riddled opinion. I hear from folks like you that President Obama wants to take away our liberties, starting with our guns. I hear he wants Americans to be subject to him somehow in this regard. Where do you get the information for this (rather unpatriotic) opinion?

This quote from dwyant pretty much sums up the right’s entire position: “You had better be very fearful…”
ezdeb said, 4 months ago

2816, I’ve looked and looked on ebay for the “good” weapons to improve my local militia’s anti-terrorism capabilities. So far, I’ve had responses only from the ATF and the FBI. And THOSE responses were less than satisfactory. I did receive a reply in regards to my entry for “bazooka”, but it turned out to be a middle aged Republican with a “thing” for Bazooka Joe. My fault for not being specific. Will keep trying. Maybe Amazon; they have free shipping!

On a serious note, my husband was pulled aside at a small-town gun show at the fairgrounds this summer and given a really low quality “brochure” the dealer had made showing the big stuff he could get. Grenades and land mines, interestingly, are pretty cheap…
motivemagus said, 4 months ago

Doonesbury’s “Uncle Duke” is looking less and less like satire every year…
striper77 said, 4 months ago

cdward
You mentioned if you’re Christian, the point is moot. Jesus says if someone tries to steal from you, give them more than they demand. All the guns simply show a lack of faith.
I remind you did this same Jesus tell his disciples to buy a sword latter in the New Testament?

What is the bibles stance on abortion, gay rights, bestiality, child molesters, perverts, welfare, laziness (I believe Paul spoke of this),
How about worshiping false gods, Muslims, government, etc.

You claim to be a Pastor, but you always side with liberals.

Look at your symbol, What does the bible say about witches, wizards, fortune telling, etc.
What happened to Saul?
striper77 said, 4 months ago

Anthony
You mentioned your against gun ownership.
Let me remind you if guns are ever taken away from the law abiding citizens in a false hope of security.
All the gangs, thefts, murderers, etc and the government will still have them.
In all countries that outlawed guns, crime’s with guns went up. The reason why there is nothing to stop them.

cdward

You mentioned an alarm system and the police is better than having your own guns.
Do you know what the time delay is for the police to respond?
I will let you know, there is enough time for the theft / murderer to kill everyone in the house and get a way.
You also mentioned people with guns have no faith in God. If you need the police and alarms where is your faith?
ezdeb said, 4 months ago

striper, all you show is a great deal of fear and alarm. All your words can be boiled down to that; fear and alarm.
lalas said, 4 months ago

“In all countries that outlawed guns, crime went up.”

Proof please.
Big Al the gal said, 4 months ago

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1818862/posts

I’m from Georgia and know that this article is accurate.
HUMPHRIES said, 4 months ago

BE, here’s another MSGT(Army, ret) telling you that you should review some history and read the entire second amendent. PS Yes I have a couple of weapons and have done some reloading. Let NRA membership expire when the NRA become an embarrassment.
charliekane said, 4 months ago

Tripe sez:

“I remind you did this same Jesus tell his disciples to buy a sword latter in the New Testament?”

Where? Book of Armaments?

Do they stock those swords right next to the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?
striper77 said, 4 months ago

Charlie,

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
striper77 said, 4 months ago

lala,

This was the first article on Google under Great Britain’s gun control:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0512f.asp

This was the second article on Google under Australia’s gun control

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/International/CanadaFailure.htm

This information is all over the internet.
striper77 said, 4 months ago

Ezdeb,

I am just calling it the way it is.

I have done a lot in my life. It appears to me most people have binders on their head and do not see what is going on or do not care. They want what they can get for free and they do not want to work.
I went to a 98% African American school, served in military, been to numerous countries, worked in prisons and worked for years as a volunteer in the hood. I have worked for four different companies at the same time. One full time and three part time. Some days I have worked around the clock for days in a row. So I know how it is.
I have also and currently work in corporate America. I have made a lot and not a lot. I have seen a hostile take over and corporate greed.
striper77 said, 4 months ago

Big Al,

Good article.
DrCanuck said, 4 months ago

Yeah, and besides, we all need guns to shoot at Hitler when he invades, huh striper? Hah?
dtroutma said, 4 months ago

As a gun owner, my greatest concern IS the NRA eventually bringing out more protests against rational ownership as described in the second amendment. The Constitution ALSO defines attempting to overthrow the government as Treason. An armed insurgency of “bemoaning boneheads” put upon by their government taking their toys away, is not rationale.

The sale of ammunition and guns in the last 8 months makes me worry a LOT more about “skinheads” than a liberal political plot. Why does the National RIFLE Association put almost all their emphasis on protecting CONCEALED weapons, armor piercing bullets, and automatic weapons(legal if you pay the tax)?

If you want to find hard to single out weapons try “LAW” (Light Anti-tank Weapon), they are fun to fire, but don’t want to be driving a Brinks truck if some “law-abiding” citizen shows up. They are the U.S. variation on RPG.

Hmmmm, M-79 grenade launchers are even more fun, perfect for hunting large herds of rampaging, over-foraging rabbits.
motivemagus said, 4 months ago

From The Straight Dope:
“A 1986 National Institute of Justice survey of convicted felons, to take one example, provides at best a mixed bag of insights: more than a third of the felons questioned said they worried with some regularity about being shot by victims, but roughly 40 percent said they never considered the possibility; while 39 percent said that at least once they’d decided not to go through with a crime because they believed the person they’d targeted was armed, nearly 25 percent insisted they were actually drawn to the challenge of confronting an armed victim. With data like this, you’ve got all the reliability problems that typically attend self-reporting plus what may be an extra helping of bravado — I’ll buy that a few criminals really do get off on going up against a gun wielder, but a quarter of them?”
striper77 said, 4 months ago

dtroutma
There is no way the civilians could over through the government. The government has the military and the police. They will always protect their own first.
They also have all the automatic weapons, heavy artillery, jets, tanks, etc. Most of all they have all the tax money to buy all the ammo and weapons they want. How did they stop the riots in California? The military. They could stop the gangs the same way.

For a citizens to get a fully automatic weapon, sawed of shotgun or silencer they have to be in a state that allows it. Have about $20,000 for a automatic weapon, money for the taxes & fees, go through all the checks the government wants and finally they have to give up their rights at their home. The government can show up at any time and search their home for whatever they want.

If a wealthy person goes through all this the chance of him doing anything against the law is slim to none. More than likely this person has so much money they would never do anything of any danger at all.

You mentioned The sale of ammunition and guns in the last 8 months makes me worry a LOT more about “skinheads” than a liberal political plot. Why does the National RIFLE Association put almost all their emphasis on protecting CONCEALED weapons, armor piercing bullets, and automatic weapons(legal if you pay the tax)?

Ammo prices has more than tripled since Obama took office. When he was in the senate he spoke about raising the taxes on them and putting serial numbers on all ammo. This is going to make the ammo so expensive most cannot afford it. That is why they are buying the ammo. The same with guns, Obama voted 100% for gun control, people are buying guns in fear they are going to be outlawed. Most of the people buying them are middle to high income class. Most are law abiding citizens. I already spoke about the costs and what you have to do to get an automatic weapon.

You then mentioned Skin heads. They already have what they want, if it was outlawed they and the black panthers, organized crime, gang members etc, can get them from Mexico or overseas. That is never going to go away.
Further more I worked in the prisons and have spoke with skinheads and the such. They are the least of your worries. The gangs and organized crime should be what you are worried about.

Grenade’s are illegal as well as bombs unless you are demolition company. They are tracked through the government.
vhammon said, 4 months ago

U.S. Constitution, Amendment II.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

What did “well regulated Militia” mean to the framers of the Bill of Rights?Did Militia members need to own and maintain their own weapons, ready for call up?

What does it mean in today’s terms? How does it compare to the National Guard?

When the 2nd Amendment is interpreted to mean people can own any and all kinds of firearms, what do these interpreters do with the first phrase of the Amendment: “A well regulated Militia”?
charliekane said, 4 months ago

Good on ya’ Triper. I missed that one (even having looked at Luke 22).

However, the weapon was to no avail, and Jesus decried its use. The disciples were apparently “outgunned”, so to speak. Jesus never advocated stupidity.
InspectorWingnut said, 4 months ago

Hey, I’m all for a regulated Militia, beholden to the citizens of my state or locality, independent of the political structure.

dwyant: Thank you. That is a point I’ve been wanting to make but haven’t for the fear of being misunderstood. If an over-bearing government continues to flaunt the sanctity and sovereignty of the individual American’s authority and rights; some will take it into their own hands.

Sometimes, I wish there was a legitimate vehicle for channeling this anti-centralism sentiment, which I think is basic to our Revolutionary heritage. Perhaps some sort of militia, well regulated?

It was none of the business of the Federal Government what weapons anybody had until they ran up against bootleggers flaunting prohibition…Up until then, unless locally prevented, you could own what you wanted.

Seems pretty simple, Libs. Improve the society-at-large’s protection from the criminals (from both private and public exploitation) you refuse to punish and/or execute, or shut up. In fact, just shut up. If you haven’t seen what your inane emotional responses and policies do to disrupt the normal lives of law-abiding citizens after what the Obama Regime has pulled in the last six months… then you will never see differently. These are people who are happy to mind their own business and content to earn an honest living and hoping to live without interference from tyrannical despotic bureaucrats who stress and degrade the system as it is.

It is obvious there needs to be a check and balance on the bolsheviks running Congress and the White House. Or at least a universal recognition of the fact that just governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.

Really, if they would just do the job they are being paid for (or quit if they think they are under-paid)…I think most Americans will give them a pass. That’s called integrity.
InspectorWingnut said, 4 months ago

^^^Toon: That’s why you put the hammer away or in a tool box when it’s not in use.
David said, 4 months ago

More misguided gun control.

Has anyone figured this out yet…gun control laws only work on law-abiding citizens. Criminals don’t care about another gun charge. They never did.

Oh, and do look at the results of Britian’s gun bans…please do! They successfully got rid of their guns but now have a knife violence problem. If we think gun control is difficult try knife control. They traded a big problem for an even bigger one. Way to go!

The shooter, not the gun has ALWAYS been the problem in the equasion of gun violence.

The knifer, not the knife, has always been the problem with knife violence.

Human beings were injuring, warring with, and killing each other long before gunpowder was invented. In violent crime in general the gun is not the common denominator. The human IS.
nomad2112 said, 4 months ago

A number of years ago I had a nice conversation with a police captain. My car had been stolen front right in front of my home and I was “down town” filling out the official report.

Out of curiosity I asked what his views were on gun control. I was VERY surprised to find that he was against it. This of course contradicted EVERYTHING that the main stream media was telling us. He told me that he believed that EVERYONE has a right to defend their selves. He said that the bottom line is this: ” … if someone enters my home and kills me - the best that he can do is write up a very nice police report but, I’ll still be dead. There just are not enough police to protect everyone. ” I asked him if he knew of anyone else in his department felt different and he said “No.”. That’s when I started to realize that we were all being lied to.
DrCanuck said, 4 months ago

TheLoveDoctor said: “If an over-bearing government continues to flaunt the sanctity and sovereignty of the individual American’s authority and rights; some will take it into their own hands.”

DrCanuck responds: I agree! It’s time for another civil war. Follow the LoveDoctor. Pick up your guns and attack a government agency. Tear your country apart! If Americans get in your way, gun them down!

(good grief)
charliekane said, 4 months ago

vhammon:

Read DC v. Heller. The dissent too. All questions are answered, abliet differently by Justices Scalia and Stevens.
InspectorWingnut said, 4 months ago

Dr Canuck…you probably aren’t familiar with these words since you are from Canada (I’ve posted them on this site before) They are from our Declaration of Independence:
“…That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundations on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” Those words seem to suggest a confrontation between citizens and a wayward government, perhaps armed. That’s what YOU and your Lib-friends are toying with… Our Government answers to us and we answer to the Law, for now.
tpenna said, 4 months ago

Nomad said: “This of course contradicted EVERYTHING that the main stream media was telling us.”

Sorry, I had to chuckle at this. Do you mean to say that the msm has it wrong on police calls for gun control because this one cop you spoke with held a different opinion? I’m sure you don’t hold that logical fallacy, but the way you expressed your comment implies you do.

Striper, a lot of folks like to point to that passage to prove that Jesus was somehow pro-gun. I should alert people to the fact that Jesus’ rather cryptic words here have been variously judged by scholars to be ironic , metaphorical, or unhistorical. And regardless of how one takes these words, it is clear from Luke 22:49-51 that Jesus did not endorse the use of swords.

And Big Al, there is a rather striking question left open by the article you posted about crime in Kennesaw, GA. Namely, was crime a problem before this ordinance was passed? From what I’ve heard, there was never a crime problem in Kennesaw. The law wasn’t designed to bring crime down. Rather, it was written to thumb a nose at another city which had criminalized gun-ownership.

That said, when you go from, say, 4 burglaries in one year to just 1 the following year, you’ve had a seventy-five percent drop. Sounds impressive, but we’re only talking about a difference of three burglaries. (I’m not purporting to present real Kennesaw crime statistics here. I’m just using these numbers to illustrate that percentages can jump through the roof when the sample is small enough.)
Anthony 2816 said, 4 months ago

Nomad, be careful of sampling error.

Dunno where you live, but here in California if you ask similar questions of police in the liberal San Francisco, you’ll likely get different answers than if you asked police in the conservative Central Valley.
DrCanuck said, 4 months ago

Whatever makes you think I haven’t read your Declaration of Independence? Are you not aware that other countries educate their citizens of events beyond their own borders?

So your citizens can alter or abolish their governments. These methods are called elections. The majority did just that, and chose the Democrats. Small minorities with grudges and guns are simply terrorists and traitors. They have no such rights.
nomad2112 said, 4 months ago

All, my point was that when you turn on the tube it sounds like the national consensus among ALL law enforcement agencies is that guns should not be available to the average citizen. Sorry that I wasn’t clearer on this.
nomad2112 said, 4 months ago

DrCanuck - nice try but, it was the Media love fest that got the Dems and “The One” in office. Not that the GOP and Bush didn’t screw up. But still, it wasn’t a fair fight.

http://people-press.org/report/463/media-wants-obama
Anthony 2816 said, 4 months ago

Nomad, that article is based mostly on what the voters thought of the media coverage. That’s hardly a reliable indicator.

Also, even if you accept this notion, did you notice this part: “At this stage of the 2004 campaign, 50% of voters said most journalists wanted to see John Kerry win the election, while 22% said most journalists favored George Bush. In October 2000, 47% of voters said journalists wanted to see Al Gore win and 23% said most journalists wanted Bush to win.”

Obviously even if the journalists behaved like the voters thought, it didn’t have any great effect on the outcomes.

I think your observation that the GOP and Bush screwed up is far more on the money.
senorbullwinkle said, 4 months ago

Anthony, have you seen Lalo?
LOVE DOCTOR, Maybe you can get Osama Bin Laden and his boys, the Taliban and Alqaeda to help you over throw PRES. OBAMA, think ?
We could even have some good old witch burnings again. Rootin’-Shooting’ Good ol’ Time, Ye-Haw !

And the Republicans shall rise again !
This just in “RINO” Religious In Name Only
senorbullwinkle said, 4 months ago

DAVID , You’re on the top of your game. Tell me how many people can YOU knife a minute ? How many people can you knife behind the counter of a bank or liquor store ? How many at a school, post office, or your work ? How many drive-by knifings in London this year ?
Anthony 2816 said, 4 months ago

“Drive-by knifings”.

Heh.

“Excuse me, could you come over closer to my car…?”
ezdeb said, 4 months ago

I really liked Chris Rock’s stand up routine wherein he advocates making guns cheap and available so people can show off, but each bullet would cost $5000. So a “drive-by” shooting would go more like: the driver rolls down his window and points a gun, and starts yelling at his target “I’m gonna start saving, and I’m gonna get a bank loan and maybe my mom will gimme some money and I’m gonna buy some ammo and YOU are a dead man then!!”
vhammon said, 4 months ago

Thanks CharlieKane. I’ll do that.
cdward said, 4 months ago

Striper wrote:
“cdward
You mentioned if you’re Christian, the point is moot. Jesus says if someone tries to steal from you, give them more than they demand. All the guns simply show a lack of faith.
I remind you did this same Jesus tell his disciples to buy a sword latter in the New Testament?”
– Indeed, but not the sword of the aggressor. Rather, Jesus was telling his disciples that they would be persecuted, that their own families would turn against them. Nowhere does he encourage them to take up arms.

“What is the bibles stance on abortion, gay rights, bestiality, child molesters, perverts, welfare, laziness (I believe Paul spoke of this),”
*– abortion: bible says nothing
gay rights: says nothing, BUT, there are a few passages that condemn homosexual behavior. HOWEVER, those passages (and if you are conversant in biblical translation, then you now this) are largely corrupted, and more recent translations disagree on many points.
–welfare: says nothing
–laziness: condemns it but so what? What’s that got to do with anything in this discussion?*

“How about worshiping false gods, Muslims, government, etc.”
*– worshiping false gods: condemns it. What’s your point?
–Muslims: says nothing: Islam didn’t exist in biblical times.
–government: says we are to honor those in government.*

“You claim to be a Pastor, but you always side with liberals.
Look at your symbol, What does the bible say about witches, wizards, fortune telling, etc.
What happened to Saul?”
– I don’t CLAIM to be a pastor; I AM an ordained priest. I side with the Gospel, which I might point out often has little to do with what you write. Remember that the Gospel is about loving your enemy and your neighbor, about caring for the poor and vulnerable because these are acts of love. I don’t see anything in the Gospel of Jesus Christ about buying guns and defending yourself. And what is your point about witches, wizards, etc? Have I said something about them? Do they have any bearing on the discussion at hand? And what on earth does my avatar have to do with anything? It’s Scooby and Shaggy – cartoon characters who uncover mysteries.
Anthony 2816 said, 4 months ago

I’m going to follow this thread, just to see what Striper tells us about the “bibles (sic) stance on abortion”.

Also: Striper, you said “You mentioned your (sic) against gun ownership.”

Show me where I said that, Striper. Or else come to grips with the fact that your bible says you’re going to hell. Rev 21:8
DrCanuck said, 4 months ago

Hey, cd’, you know me well enough to know this is not me taking a shot but asking a serious question. That “buy a sword” statement has had me worried for some time; it seems so contradictory to all other teachings (and certainly not sufficient to base one’s entire theology on!). I read your post above and don’t find it satisfactory. Can you do better?
striper77 said, 4 months ago

cdward
You answered my question. You are a ordained priest.
This could be no church affiliation, United Church of Christ or something Fred Sanford done on Sanford and Son.
Your comments have been mild so I will bother you no more.
I will discuss your questions below with the usual suspects, M Kitt, Anthony, DrCansuck etc.

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With his singular style, Tom Toles tackles the complex issues of the day. This Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist skillfully targets political, economic and social concerns — in particular complicated environmental issues — with a clear-eyed precision that hits the mark every time.

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