State of the Union by Carl Moore

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mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

Torture is wrong. That being said, I cant think of another way to get information from captured terrorists.

I am interested, how did Bush make this country any safer?
Edcole1961 said, about 1 month ago

He left office.
ReFlex-76 said, about 1 month ago

Funny thing about interrogations, they’re most successful when there’s no torture!
CJ said, about 1 month ago

Who knows whether interrogation is more successful without torture? I believe this only comes into play when less intense means have failed. Water boarding is hardly torture when you consider how other societies have treated our prisoners. Torture is knowing you are about to be beheaded before it happens, having electrical shock to genitals, pulling out of finger and toe nails, sleep deprivation, etc. All the things our military have suffered at the hands of their captures. Get real folks, those at GITMO had none of these happen to them.
jack75287 said, about 1 month ago

Moore needs to mention that the investigation from CIA the Bush Justice Department and the courts all said let it go then Obama Justice Department knows better.

mroberts88

No follow up attacks to 9/11 in American boarders. Nice track record.
Lewreader said, about 1 month ago

What have our soldiers, Marines , Air Force and sailors suffered under other government and they were in uniform. Let see, an enemy combatant who is not in uniform. What does the world call that? And what is the international penalty for spying? We dunk them in water. Meanies.
DavidDow said, about 1 month ago

No, Lew, we try to drown them. In addition, we kill some of them. If you believed what you said, then you wouldn’t be writing here. You would have enlisted & you would be in Afghanistan. So, please, do us a favor & stop channeling chickenhawk Dick Cheney.
cfortunato said, about 1 month ago

“I tortured prisoners, but I MEANT well”?

Talk about moral relativism - the Republicans are the KINGS of it.

Torturing prisoners is what our ENEMIES do. That’s WHY they’re our ENEMIES.
BirishB said, about 1 month ago

You want torture?

Day after day, people march on Washington because our president wants to make sure people can access care when they or a loved one is sick.

Day after day, people scream and shout because Obama has not unburdened us of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Scream, shout, yell about this and that, but day after day, Americans remain disturbingly silent when corporations taking bailout money give their CEOs million-dollar golden parachutes and pay for executives to join country clubs, ride in chauffeured limousines and fly private jets.

Here’s a fact we should all get mad about: CEOs of companies receiving bailout money received an average increase in compensation to the tune of $100K this year.

THEY WENT BANKRUPT, TOOK OUR TAX DOLLARS … BUT STILL MADE MORE MONEY!!!!

The absolute silence at that horrendous injustice is pure torture to listen to.

So go on, keep crying about CIA investigations; whine about healthcare; and by all means keep on about how Iraq was a war of principle.

But unless and until we stop letting ourselves get walked on by corporate America, until we end this practice of corporate elitism and class division, we are all hypocrites, because we have lost sight of justice, fairness and equality.
Kees said, about 1 month ago

Edcole1961;
YOU MADE MY DAY!!!
Kees said, about 1 month ago

BirishB:
You could not be more spot on.
A real Bulls eye!
jtpozenel said, about 1 month ago

mroberts88 said:

Torture is wrong. That being said, I cant think of another way to get information from captured terrorists.

—————————————————————————-

Offer them 73 virgins.
mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

Jack, to be fair, the previous attack on the WTC was in what 1992? ‘93? He allowed more to die.

jtpozenel, we need to up the ante on Bin Laden. Offer them 80.
butch1942 said, about 1 month ago

If they wanted to drown them they would, not just try.If they were drowning Conservatives Dave would approve or at least make excuses.
jmworacle said, about 1 month ago

If you want to know about tortue ask any WWII veteran that was unlucky enough to spend begining of the war in a Japanese prison camp. That is if they will tell you. I had an uncle who did and when I asked him about his treatment all he said was: “After the tide turned the treatment got better.” Grant you, the United States likes to hold themselves to a higher standard but in a time of war sometimes civility is one of the first casualties.
Contrarian said, about 1 month ago

BirishB said:

But unless and until we stop letting ourselves get walked on by corporate America…

We had this debate over the weekend. Scott, GJ and Jor-El concurred with me, but Sable thought we were all products of crummy public schools.

Thomas Jefferson warned of the artificial aristocracy of moneyed corporations…a selfish spirit that knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.

Sable thought our comments were anti-capitalist, anti-corporate and anti-profit.

I suggest that he read and study Jefferson and TR.
Herbabee said, about 1 month ago

So, over the weekend I viewed ‘The Battle of Algiers’ - the trailer for its revival release contained the heading “Screened by the Pentagon in 2004.” Now what disturbs me is that they may not have viewed it as a cautionary tale, but as an instruction manual?
Jor-El said, about 1 month ago

I found this very insightful article at Politico regarding torture and waterboarding.

Roosevelt Was Right
BirishB said, about 1 month ago

jmworacle said:

“Grant you, the United States likes to hold themselves to a higher standard but in a time of war sometimes civility is one of the first casualties.”

If civility is the first casualty, then the war is lost.

We should remember that this whole fight against terrorism is an ideological war.

We were all reminded many, many times that “you are either with us or against us” … that “if we concede to fear, then we let the terrorist win” … that “we are fighting an enemy that wants to destroy the American way of life.”

In fact, we predicated the policy of preemptive strike on the idea that our ideas, our liberty and our freedom were at stake.

Well, if we simply shirk off the American way of life so that we may win a war at all costs … then haven’t we just admitted defeat in this ideological war?
BirishB said, about 1 month ago

Contrarian …

Didn’t mean to rehash an old subject. I just wonder where our priorities are.

It seems people are more upset about giving healthcare to the poor, about whether Islamic fundamentalists are labeled terrorists or enemy combatants … then the fact that we have created for ourselves a moneyed aristocracy.

So much for all politics being local.

Anti-capitalist, anti-corporate and anti-profit, eh?

No. It’s just plain, old-fashioned taxation without representation … as in, we get taxed, yet we get no say in who gets that tax money, but that money always seems to find its way to the hands of the elite and privileged.

I think there might have been a few folks who fought a war over such a principle in the late 18th century.
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

what are you (some of you) people talking about???
Sheik Kalid talked up a storm! That was the SAME guy who lopped off David pearls head!! equivalent is it??????
CFortunato…”Talk about moral relativism - the Republicans are the KINGS of it….”
Yeah right!
BTW…NOW he says…execute me!!….I want to be a martyr!!….yeah right…NOW that he knows it won’t happen
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

jmworacle…yes fella….a highter standard indeed…blah blah…..blah…..such blather……
then again….I once talked with a fella who was very pacifist….so I asked him….if his WIFE were being attacked…what would he do…..he said….his wife would understand…..blah blah…blah………
How about this….Bush this..Bush that……remember our ‘friends’ throughout the world…during that ‘internationalist’ president. Bill Clinton…tried to take down the Twin Towers…remember??? lets somehow tie George Bush into this ladies and gentlemen….Oh….and by being such a great president….sent Jimmy Carter to Korea to hammer out a deal…..omg…what a great effort!! Got HIM the Nobel Peace Prize too!…except…the Koreans didn’t see it the way we see it…. we being….high minded (must be liberals or democrats right?) individuals believed in our ‘moral superiority’…THAT will turn the trick….not an ‘air headed’ president like a Ronald Reagan…as you would love to believe he was…..but Bill Clinton who said himself…he ‘tried’ to get Bin Laden….oops….then came the second try on the Twin Towers….But George Bush…who pushed as hard as humanly possible to get the Patriot Act in place for ALL of US….to prevent another attack on our soil….of course…if it happens NOW…..must be DUBYAs fault…right….?? even though the catastrophe of the Twin Towers took place barely nine months into his presidency HE was responsible…right..I know I know….there were ALL the indicators..blah blah…blah…..WRONG………I came from an intelligence background so spare me uninformed blather…..
take care til next rant my fellow countrymen….(yes…women are considered countrymen too….)
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

mr roberts
“….I am interested, how did Bush make this country any safer?…”

…I must say,…I find…smug…condescending tone very irritating…if you DON’T feel President Bush made us safer…(at least during HIS administration….) read my rant above

Is that your real surname…or is it from a notable movie from the past…Hank Fonda perchance…..smoking a pipe too?

If not, my apologies for drawing a parallel, if not accurate

I am only mentioning mr roberts because he was on top of the list….~laughs~
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

Birish….
“The absolute silence at that horrendous injustice is pure torture to listen to…..”

Huh???
listening to silence….torture even…………
got an invisible buddy on your shoulder huh? …..psssst …..pssssssssst
BirishB said, about 1 month ago

well, johndh123 …

Considering the sputtering mess you have produced on this page …

… I’d rather have an invisible buddy on my shoulder than a million screaming voices in my head.

I’ll just consider the source of your comments, and say that I am not shocked that you don’t understand.

btw … you mentioned that you “came” from an intelligence background. I am sorry to hear that you no longer come from the same background. Anyway, where do you get your “intelligence” from these days? I think you may need to return it because it seems a bit defective.
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

Dear Birish…
I must ask of you…what did you find defective of my comments…hmmmmmm? Perhaps I had a bit too much fun with your ‘verbal’ paradox…my apologies if that offended””
now you say..considering the course of my comments….you are not shocked by my lack of understanding…what again….dear Birish….was my misinformation?
I dare say…YOUR misstating anothers information is marginalizing YOU my friend…..(I know I know….must not be too persumptious by addressing you as friend…~winks~….honestly, I believe in debate, and dear riends articulate a contrary point of view, which gets proper consideration)
Again, if I was overboard, and offended you, my apologies. Having fun should not be at other’s expense…
mytinytown said, about 1 month ago

jmworacle
“Grant you, the United States likes to hold themselves to a higher standard but in a time of war sometimes civility is one of the first casualties.”

Very, very well said.

BirishB
I think you just pretty much called someone (johndh123 ) stupid. nice to see this side of you.
mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

johndh123 said, about 1 hour ago

mr roberts
“….I am interested, how did Bush make this country any safer?…”

…I must say,…I find…smug…condescending tone very irritating…if you DON’T feel President Bush made us safer…(at least during HIS administration….) read my rant above

Is that your real surname…or is it from a notable movie from the past…Hank Fonda perchance…..smoking a pipe too?

If not, my apologies for drawing a parallel, if not accurate

I am only mentioning mr roberts because he was on top of the list….~laughs~

Wow, that was a miss on my name. You want to actually try to hit the target next time?

Now, if you consider taking away some freedoms, and throwing our military into a quagmire in Afghanistan, and invading Iraq on lies making our nation safer, well, I dont know what to say. We have lost alot of credibility.

“Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither, and will lose both” Benjamin Franklin.
jack75287 said, about 1 month ago

mroberts88

Sorry I cannot buy that argument. The first world trade center bombing was a truck bomb and never really had the chance of knocking down the WTC. It was one of 7 attacks during the Clinton administration. Everything from embassies to the U.S.S Cole to the Cobar Towers, it was also 8 years after the first attack. Then 9/11 was a type of attack that the world has quite never quite seen before. Unless you include the suicide bombers of WWII.

If you want to use the first WTC as an argument then you will have to prove that Bush new of Clinton’s inability to do his job. I will counter that yes after 7 such attacks that Bush had a level of responsibility to shape things up but with only 8 months from taking office it would not be as much as Clinton’s. I don’t think either of us wants to go there.
Jor-El said, about 1 month ago

Okay, ring the bell. This is where I used to lighten things up with a bit of humor.

———–

I think Obama is starting to get a little desperate. After losing the Olympics, he scaled back a little bit. Like, today, he was in New York, making the case for Chicago-style pizza.

–Jay Leno

———–

Well, in response to criticism that he’s not fulfilling a campaign promise, the President’s national security adviser said President Obama will overturn the military’s ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy at the right time. When asked what the right time would be, he said, ‘Don’t ask, I’m not telling.

–Jay Leno

———–

Hey, speaking of presidents, a former speechwriter to President Bush was quoted as saying that, contrary to what people think, ‘Bush wasn’t dumb.’ In fact, as we speak, that quote’s being engraved on the wall of the Bush presidential library.

–Conan O’Brien

———–

Okay, back in the ring!
mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

Jack, you cant argue, that what Bush did, with the Patriot Act, was, and still is, as to my knowledge it is still in use, illegal, and unconstitutional.
BirishB said, about 1 month ago

Oh Dear Johndh123 …

(literally, oh dear!)

What is this misinformation I speak of?

Clinton sent Carter to North Korea, who outlined a treaty that later was hailed around the world as a significant achievement in diplomacy with N. Korea. We were party to that agreement, which stipulated nuclear nonproliferation, until Bush backed out in 2002.

Clinton and Madeleine Albright made significant inroads with Kim Jong Il. And we continued to have fruitful diplomacy with N. Korea until Bush stopped all that.

Clinton failed to get Osama … but so did W and Bush daddy, and Reagan sold him guns. There’s plenty of blame to go around. You seem interested, only, in lumping it on those you disagree with ideologically.

Bush made us less safe with North Korea. He destabilized the Middle East. He did not make the world a safer place. He made it a more dangerous place, PATRIOT Act or no.

These points don’t represent a “point of view.” Instead, they are solid, undeniable facts.

As I suggested … your facts need work.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, about 1 month ago

Seems johndh123 signed up 5 days ago - just now starting to “his” SOTU rants.

Why wait so long johnhd? Timing is Everything when it comes down to “Humor”.

Patterns R Funny - just when SOTU was starting to have “civil” conversations - some TROLL comes along to be churning along…keeps the subscribers happy to watch “Big Time Mud Slinging”.
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

mroberts…if I may inject something to consider….even in law, wiretaps, subpoenas for search are based on just cause…..the fact that communications between the middle east and the US have been monitored under the Patriot Act causes me no consternation. The number of times that such ‘intrusions’ proved to be unnecessary we will never know, nor should we…then again…the number of times we in the US have been spared terrorist attacks because of this act, we may also never know, as our ‘right to know’ might be eclipsed by the necessity of our intelligence security to not allow those who would do us harm insights into our methods… .yes, once the government steps over the line, it must be held to account…..
johndh123 said, about 1 month ago

heyyy…Jor El….you are Superman’s dad aren’t you??!!
thanks for the chuckles….
Ronshua said, about 1 month ago

“Byrdes of on kynde and color flok and flye allwayes together.”

William Turner 1545

Mat 26:73 And after a while those who stood by came to him and said to Kĕpha, “Truly you are one of them too, for even your speech gives you away.”
jack75287 said, about 1 month ago

mroberts88

First how did we get to the patriot act. We were talking about terrorist attacks. If it is illegal why is Obama is using it and why has it not been ruled unconstitutional by the courts they do have the power to do that.
ChuckTrent64 said, about 1 month ago

Is that really where that “Birds of a feather…” quote came from? William Turner, 1545. Who was he? Never mind, I’ll google him. I like your biblical quote. What translation is that?
gbwooden said, about 1 month ago

It appears to be The Restoration Scriptures True Name Edition Study Bible.
http://www.restorationscriptures.org/page.php?page=home
mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

Jack, people commonly state, as did Bush, that the Patriot Act would make the USA safer.
Ronshua said, about 1 month ago

The Scriptures ( ISR ) 1998 SISR Check it out .
http://www.isr-messianic.org/faqs/faq.shtml

http://www.isr-messianic.org/

http://www.tyndalearchive.com/Scriptures/index.htm

“It appears to be The Restoration Scriptures True Name Edition Study Bible.”

No , a good “Translation ” but no not close .
sablebrush5 said, about 1 month ago

There’s an article in the New Yorker magazine about our use of drones, the implication of which is that we are meanies and evil ones because in killing these murderers and enemies of the U.S., we’re also killing their wives, mothers and kids.

This is clearly “uncivil” behavior and we must stop. Of course we fire-bombed Dresden, fire-bombed Tokyo, and nuked Hiroshima to win that “civilly-fought” war, WW II, which most of us consider the “good” war.

Well what’s the difference between fire-bombing Tokyo, and using drones to wipe out families of our murderous enemies? There’s a word for this behavior - it’s called WAR. We’d better accept the fact that war is brutal, not civil, or we should fold up our tent, let the Islamic fanatics have their way and start getting on our knees five times a day.
ahab said, about 1 month ago

The Skinheads of Idaho love this cartoonist.

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