State of the Union by Carl Moore

?fh=af47badff34d6987a18701558446b878

Comments (30) Jump to Comments Form

  1. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Afhganistan isnt a clear situation. We cant pull out, because there isnt a solid government there, and the terrorists would claim victory, and that would be a boost to morale. If we stay, the terrorists will say that this is a western war on Islam. The thing to do, would be to train an Afghani army, and leave.

  2. JDG

    JDGGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    Yes, roberts. That is my judgement also…

  3. sablebrush5

    sablebrush5 said, about 1 month ago

    We should have left Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban in 2001. But now that we’ve invested so much in that god-forsaken country, a pull-out now would be seen be one and all (including the American people) as a defeat for the United States and the West.

    Afghanistan would soon be taken over by the Taliban and Al Qaeda and it wouldn’t be long before they were threatening Pakistan. It is the possibility of Islamic fanatics taking over Pakistan, its nukes and missles, that makes leaving Afghanistan politically impossible for Obama. Such an event would threaten the national security interests of not only the U.S. but all of our allies.

    Though we all know, deep down, Obama, like all of the liberal left, wants out of Afghanistan and that entire region, he can’t do it. He’s stuck in a place he never thought he’d be stuck in - an unpopular war on the other side of the world, supporting a corrupt government against an insurgency being fought be guys willing to blow themselves up and die for their cause if need be. This is the worst kind of stiuation for a leftist liberal who vehemently opposed the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. The result is his current dithering about what to do and, no matter what he decides, it will badly split the Democrtic Party and our European allies.

    Afghanistan is already a political quagmire for Obama. I do not envy his having to make this decision. It will hurt him politically no matter which way he goes. And if things go badly there, it could easily sink his presidency.

  4. scottfreitas

    scottfreitasGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    Would help if the bulk of the people in Afghanistan identified themselves as Afghanis.

    They don’t.

    They identify themselves by TRIBE, mostly. They are not a centralized people. The bulk of what makes up their major cities only exists because of western (and to a lesser extent, Soviet) influence.

    The problem with the Left always whining about our involvement in a war is because they are so intellectually lazy they never even investigate the specifics of the nations(s) involved. They also project THEMSELVES, their thoughts and ideas, onto every other person whom exists. They could no more fathom the mindset of an uber-patriachal tribal society than your average dog could understand what it is like to be a cat.

    It takes MEN, adults, to make decisions when getting involved with such alien cultures. Obama thinks far more like an 18-year-old girl than a man. He doesn’t have a clue what to do, nor is he capable of the wisdom and objectivity needed in order to listen to his generals in the field.

    I see absolutely no good ending for the US in that region until and unless we get a new President. Obama will stumble and fumble along same as Jimmy Carter and LBJ did, and will always be reactive–not proactive.

    Good time to pray for our troops over there, they will surely need it… :(

  5. pschearer

    pschearerGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    Obama appointed General McChrystal as the ideal man for the job but now Obama won’t listen to him. And how could he? They’ve met but once and Sec. of Def. Gates won’t pass along McChrystal’s report to the White House!

    And when Obama went to Copenhagen (OK, I’ll lay off the Olympics thing), he spent only 25 minutes meeting with McChrystal…with their wives! The best Obama could manage was a coffee klatch with his most important general!

  6. robbie

    robbie said, about 1 month ago

    We are not the only country that has had trouble fighting over there, if we paid attention we should have known in advance what most of the problems where going to be, learn from the past.

  7. Buzzy-One

    Buzzy-One said, about 1 month ago

    Ah, a couple of crack-pots among the the crowd to make things interesting.

  8. Lewreader

    LewreaderGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    MROBERTS88 was right. We can’t even hold an election there. Get the heck out after we have trained the locals.

  9. SCPMAN

    SCPMAN said, about 1 month ago

    Hey the point of the cartoon is that Obama can make up his mind as to follow the advise of General McChrystal or the liberal left of his party. I sure a poll will come out giving him clear advice on what to do.

  10. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Scott was right, we cant hold an election because of the tribal mentality in Afghanistan. Like I said, train a military, and get out of town, that would be the best thing to do. If we wait until a viable government is in Afghanistan, well, we will be there for a while.

  11. jack75287

    jack75287 said, about 1 month ago

    Sablebrush
    Great post one or two small points. The war in Afghanistan, we did not get in there till 2002 after 911. Also Obama may or may not have thought he would not be in this position but he should have. Everyone knows that the U.S. tolerance of war is finite.

    The second point goes to Obama’s judgment. Crazy Carz’s, flag pin issues, the health care debate, ticking off his own political base. How many things like this can happen to a person before people stop listening.

  12. Jor-El

    Jor-El said, about 1 month ago

    Announcer: And now, from the nation’s capitol, The McLaughlin Group. Here’s your moderator, John McLaughlin.

    John McLaughlin: Issue number one–Afghanistan. Stay or go…Mort?

    Mort Zuckerman: I think the president wants to…

    Pat Buchanan: Get out! Get out!

    Mort: I was saying, I think Obama wants to carefully weigh all of his options before making a decision.

    McLaughlin: Eleanor?

    Eleanor Clift: I agree with Mort, but in the…

    Pat Buchanan: Get out! Get out!

    Eleanor: Let me finish! I agree with Mort, but in the end it is George Bush’s war.

    McLaughlin: Pat?

    Pat Buchanan: Get…

    McLaughlin: Okay, let’s move on. On a scale of 0 to 10, with 0 representing zero possibility and 10 representing complete metaphysical certitude, will Afghanistan turn into Obama’s Vietnam…Mort?

    Mort: It’s possible. Six.

    McLaughlin: Eleanor?

    Eleanor: Two. I don’t think Obama wants to be the next LBJ.

    McLaughlin: Pat?

    Pat: (snoring)…Uh, Vietnam?

    McLaughlin: The answer is,10, most definitely. Bye, bye!

  13. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Jor-El, good point, this war is quickly turning into another Vietnam.

    To the person who keeps putting .make angry love to fish, you can quit, we can tell you probably want to make angry love to fish.

  14. Herbabee

    Herbabee said, about 1 month ago

    McL’s the only Sunday coffee-table show I can withstand anymore! But ya forgot Monica in that little donnybrook there~

  15. scottfreitas

    scottfreitasGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    The main comparison with Vietnam is the way in which the Taliban hide most of their troops and equipment just outside Afgahistan’s borders–mostly in Pakistan.

    The North Vietnamese played the same trick with us, using Cambodia. Why? Because now that the headquarters of the world’s feminized males aka The United Nations meddles in our affairs, they whine at us that we cannot trespass outside Afghanistan’s borders in pursuit of our enemies. Same thing they did to us with Cambodia.

    So just like the Cong kept running back and forth every day from Cambodia to Vietnam, so to do the Taliban run back and forth from Pakistan to Afghanistan.

    Prior to the UN’s worthless existence, America never fell for such cheap tricks during wartime. If we were at war with someone, we’d chase them over ANYONE’S borders when needed. Thus, our enemies didn’t even bother to try using such shell games against us.

    Not sure how, if, or when we’ll really accomplish anything meaningful long-term in Afghanistan. It’ll be slow going, regardless. We’ll keep picking the Taliban off in onesies and twosies, and they’ll keep roadside-bombing our troops to death in onesies and twosies, and it’ll be an ugly back-and-forth in the same bleak, mountainous terrain that drove so many Soviet soldiers into despair…

    We may get lucky, though. Who knows. We may get an unexpected break somewhere. Maybe even an inside track as to which cave Osama is holed up in…

  16. Jim

    Jim said, about 1 month ago

    The McLaughlin Group .

  17. Jor-El

    Jor-El said, about 1 month ago

    Herbabee, no slight on Monica intended. I used to get flagged for very long posts, and had to keep it short.

  18. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Scott, thats it. The thing is, we have to fight by the rules of the U.N. and the enemy doesnt. We are fighting with one hand tied behind our back basically.

  19. GJ_Jehosaphat

    GJ_JehosaphatGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    There are a few differences from Vietnam:
    1) Technology - Satellites & Robotic Drones
    2) NO Draft - Selective Service “chose” the un-lucky # holder. Now it’s a bad economy that’s filling the armed forces.
    3) Military History - Lessons learned from Vietnam will help make better strategies today.

    Seems the enemies of the 60’s are now the folks who keep US inflation down (cheap labor). Who would have ever predicted China would OWN US (by buying up our debt).

    Watched a program last night - WalMart in China - gave me the idea that they should put a WalMart in Afghanistan along with a few factories to provide spending $$ - give them a taste of capitalism (tongue in cheek - but hey, it could work).

  20. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Jehosaphat, the one thing that both conflicts share is the enemy hides in another nation. We cant go in and get Al Qaida, or the Taliban, because we would have to invade Pakistan. They are a sovereign nation, and we cant do that. The other problem is, the people of Afghanistan are tribal. It will be a long time if a viable government, if one can even happen there, will form.

  21. jack75287

    jack75287 said, about 1 month ago

    The arguments to Vietnam are all valid but less then two weeks ago the Taliban or Al Quida hit the Pakistani Army HQ. That would be their equivalent to the Pentagon. Pakiston lunched a major ground offensive after a long air offensive. With some luck they cannot hide in Pakistan anymore.

  22. GJ_Jehosaphat

    GJ_JehosaphatGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    mrob - Tribal sounds awfully familiar - especially after how tribal families were treated during the establishment of this country. Surviving Native American tribal members now have their own “government”:

    “Governmental structures among Self-Governance Tribes vary greatly depending on the individual needs of each Tribe, their constitutions, and their leaders and members. From the beginning of Self-Governance, Tribal leaders have taken the lead in generating discussions and forcing policy decisions from both Tribal and Federal Governments.
    To assist in this leadership role and to implement Self-Governance, almost all participating Tribes have established their own Offices of Self-Governance. Tribal Governments have created positions of Self-Governance Coordinators who are responsible for monitoring Self-Governance activities for their Tribes.
    The Coordinator position is typically located in the executive offices of Tribal Governments so that timely information can be provided for policy, legal, and management decision-making.”

    http://www.tribalselfgov.org/Red%20Book/The%20History%20&%20Goals/federalandtribalgovernmentst1.htm

    And as jack75287 mentioned in his comment - Pakistan is going after the Taliban AND/OR Al Qaeda. It’s a political hot spot - winter’s coming & will cool things down - hopefully for their sakes & the civilians who are just trying to survive in a war torn country.

  23. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Jack, hopefully that will be the case.

    Jehosaphat, hopefully this war will end, and Bin Laden will be found, and Al Qaida and the Taliban will lose alot more power than what they already have.
    Hopefully, the Afghani Tribals will get together, and there will be some form of peace in Afghanistan.
    I’m not going to talk about the native american tribes, and how they were treated.

  24. jmworacle

    jmworacle said, about 1 month ago

    Or anything else……………..

  25. Tigger

    TiggerGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    ‘W’ has morphed into Obama

  26. sablebrush5

    sablebrush5 said, about 1 month ago

    scottfreitas, I’m afraid you’re right - we’re going to be onesied and twosied to death over a long period of time. The American people will tire (or are they already tired?) of this slow, seemingly pointless slog in Afghanistan. But can we realistically withdraw with all the awful consequences of that? Man, this thing is definitely a tight knot. Can it be untied? Hard to see how.

    If Obama is not willing to go all out to prevail there, he should withdraw totally and not do the half-ass “compromise” of sending a few more troops but not enough to give McCrystal the manpower he needs. This is the way of Vietnam. Gradualism is the path of failure. Get in totally, or get out totally… but don’t do the a little bit here, and a little bit there thing - it’s a recipe for disaster.

  27. ChuckTrent64

    ChuckTrent64Genius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    As LBJ said in the late 1960’s, words to the effect, “I could bomb Hanoi off the map, or fly to Hanoi & negotiate with Ho. Either way, I’d go up 50 points in the polls.”

    The only way to win this kind of war is to do what Arkansas Senator William Fulbright said it would take in Vietnam, “Kill so many people as to make Hitler look like a piker.”

    Plus, our pulling out & leaving the country to the Taliban would once again betray (as the Soviets did) the women of Afghanistan to be driven back to their 6th century status of being lower than cattle.
    Other than these considerations, and several others, the whole situation is “simple.” I wonder what our cartoonist suggests.

  28. GJ_Jehosaphat

    GJ_JehosaphatGenius_badge said, about 1 month ago

    mrob - Just wanted to give an example of tribal governance system that seems to work in this country (not to start another thread about their treatment in history).

    If the tribal groups in Afghanistan quit giving refuge (hiding places) to the outlaws (Taliban/Al Qaeda) along with Pakistan hunting them down in their country - perhaps there is the “Hope” on the horizon for the people of Afghanistan - especially the women (as ChuckTrent64 has pointed out).

  29. mroberts88

    mroberts88 said, about 1 month ago

    Jehosaphat, that makes sense. Right now, thats all we can do about Afghanistan, hope they quit giving refuge. Who knows, they may.

  30. stebon

    stebon said, about 1 month ago

    As usual, a liberal twisting in the wind trying to find the spin. Weren’t all those nasty Talibanis an Al Quides supposed to lay down their arms when the Obamanation came to be leader. He can’t make a decision to destroy them but he has the courage to attack Fox News. What a courageous man!

    It ain’t so easy being leader, is it , Obamanation?

    What you do now, Nobel Prize Fraud?