State of the Union by Carl Moore

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wndrwrthg said, 2 months ago

Who to trust, corporations who only exist to make a profit or a Government bureaucracy?
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 2 months ago

If U haven’t seen the movie Sicko - Rent It.

I saw the movie twice - the part about Cuba was when Michael Moore took some folks to get checked out by doctors in Cuba. These were folks who helped during the 9/11 rescue & clean-up in NYC & became sick for various reasons.

Cuba had more compassion for Americans who needed medical attention - amazing after all the economic blockades they’ve endured over the years. I’m not a Fidel Fan - that’s not what the movie was about.

BTW - make sure you know the “rules” of the insurance game. Save yourself alot of grief when you get one of those “Surprise Bills” in the mail….
farren said, 2 months ago

Or, at least, save yourself a lot of surprise.
sablebrush5 said, 2 months ago

What is the rationale for the public option in Obama’s healthcare plan? It is to offer people of low income insurance that costs less than any of the 1300 private insurance companies’ plans. Otherwise there’s no reason for the public option to exist.

The government can do this because it can subsidize costs with taxpayers money. That is, it won’t offer lower prices because it’s more efficient, competent, well-run, etc., but because it’s sitting on the power to create, print, and tax money. And if the coverage provided in the government-run plan is cheaper than what employers’ private plans are paying now, logic suggests that employers will drop their current plans and place their workers in the government plan. The result, over time, will be a crowding out of private health insurance and the arrival of a single-payer, government-run system.

At that point, what we will have is a monopoly. Like all monopolies, in time, it will deteriorate. Just look at what has happened to the Brtish National Health Service (the NHS). When it began, the NHS was considered first rate. But over the decades it has gone down hill, until today, it languishes in mediocrity and badly-run hospitals that get worse with each passing year. This is not surprising. Without competition, all monopolies deteriorate.

Look at our public school systems. They too were well-run in the beginning but over time have deterioriated into something even worse than mediocre.

Monopolies should be avoided at all costs. But that’s where Obama’s public option would take us - a government-run monopoly of healthcare.
kajunklown said, 2 months ago

holy cow people…..these are COMICS!!!! get a life!!!!
sablebrush5 said, 2 months ago

And don’t be fooled by this “trigger” nonsense. Liberal Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine has entered the picture, proposing a “trigger” — a public option that would kick in if private insurers didn’t bring down health care costs

The trouble with the trigger gimmick is it’s really a hair trigger. The other components of the bill make it next to impossible for the trigger not to be pulled and a public option being established.

Adding tens of millions of people to the health care rolls without major cost-containment measures will cause medical costs to skyrocket.

So will the new rules prohibiting insurance companies from exercising discretion regarding coverage. In such an environment, it will be impossible for private insurers to control premium prices and stop the public option trigger.

The “trigger,” in other words, will have already been pulled on becoming law — making the public option inevitable.

So it’s all a bad joke pulled on the Blue Dog Democrats and the few liberal Republicans hoping enough lipstick can be put on this pig to allow them to vote for it.
JDG said, 2 months ago

Our state has an “assigned” risk insurance for bad automobile drivers. All insurance companies must participate because insurance is compulsary and everyone must be insured.
Why not a simiar plan for pre-existing conditions in the health field.
Also the greed in health care is the caregivers more that than the insurance companies. Hospitals are constantly building to show paper losses and get higher rates. Professionals are joining co-ops who are building and buying machines to drive up costs and increase non-cash expenses…
pschearer said, 2 months ago

JDG sounds like the people who have been taught to believe that profit is evil. Bad insurers! Evil doctors! Good bureaucrats! Noble and heroic politicians! Let’s have government-run healthcare!

Let’s apply the same logic a bit differently: Evil farmers! Bad retailers! Let’s have collectivized farms and government-run food stores! Of course, the countries that do that have the least and worst food. The same will be true for healthcare if Obama gets his way.
LibrarianInTraining said, 2 months ago

GJ, they had compassion for Americans, all right. You can fake anything when there’s a camera in your face. Free publicity and all that. There’s a reason people are risking their lives to LEAVE Cuba and come here. I don’t see anyone getting on a raft and sailing to Cuba, do you?
Lewreader said, 2 months ago

Lets see, we take profit out of health care. See no reason to risk millions making new drugs if the government is going to give such drugs away. See no reason to spend hundreds of thousands and waste our best years in school if the government is going to pay us the same as a high school drop our.. See no reason to invest in life saving equipment if the government is not going to let us recoup our investment. Lets see, the productive members of society should pay for the drinking, smoking, overweight members whose health is sub-par for some reason. Lets see, we should encourage people who cannot afford their own insurance to procreate more citizens who need a government entitlement. Sounds like a Marxist dream.
DavidDow said, 2 months ago

Sable., please don’t plagiarize. From what place did you copy & paste these paragraphs? In addition, don’t copy & paste inaccuracies. The British health-care system is in good shape, and most of the health-care systems of Western Europe exceed the mess that is our health-care. Your observations about public schools are wrong, too, and your predictions about costs skyrocketing are also wrong. Universal, single-payer health care costs LESS than the American mess.

(As for the line about “lipstick on a pig”, you shouldn’t insult Sarah Palin that way. The people of Alaska, by the way, paid for the birth of her “illegitimate”—as she would call him—grandbaby.)

Yes, Beguine, that is true, and the Swiss get all the health care they need without a bill.

Thank you, Pschear.: We do have government-run food production and the government involved in every step of food production, including subsidies for farmers, and the system works. You have made the case for health-care reform.

L.I.T., people leave Cuba, because the political system is a dictatorship. Michael Moore’s point in SICKO is that even such an impoverished country supplies better health-care than does the U.S.A. You don’t deny that we need a better health-care system, do you? By the way, how is the library-work coming, and where will you work once you get your library science degree?

Lew., the dream is yours. Your description has no connection to reality. Get back to the Constitutional law books. You do HAVE a job as a constitutional lawyer, right?? I am concerned, because your remarks here show no coherent rationality, and I’d like to think that lawyers were rational men & women.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

Who’s taking profit out of health care?

What’s this slippery slope argument I keep hearing about? Where today its a public option and tomorrow its a government-run monopoly on health care?

Seriously … where do you folks get this stuff?

Will the public option be perfect? By no means, no. Will people still want additional coverage for their individual health needs? Yes. And that is why private coverage will never go away.

Simply look at the extraordinary number of moving parts that would be necessary to “crowd out private insurers.” The vastness of that apocryphal ending is so cumbersome that it would be for all intents and purposes impossible to pull off. Instead, that reasoning is a fallacious bit of logic (a slippery slope argument) designed to scare people into believing that “big, bad government is going to tell you what to do.”

There will be a period of adjustment with the existence of a new plan. There will be costs involved. But those costs will be far below what is currently spent on emergent care for the uninsured or what is spent today in palliative care instead of preventive care. But, this is yet another example of how half-truths, lies and manipulations have been used by those who oppose UNIVERSAL ACCESS to care to propagate their message (and UNIVERSAL ACCESS is different than UNIVERSAL COVERAGE).

Sadly, what is lost in this sea of deception is the principle involved here:

Health = life.

We all have a right to life. Therefore, we all have a right to health. And, therefore, we all have a right to health care, which can assure us our health and our continued lives.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

And lest we lose sight of the practical concerns with health care:

The US currently spends 15% of GDP on health care spending. The proposed spending on health care is aimed at lowering that single line item, which is expected to rise to 17% in 2015, and as high as 20% in 2020. During that time period, the number of individuals living in America over the age of 85 is expected to rise 333% (no … that is not a typo). The number of people 65 and older is expected to rise about 108%. The cost of providing care for our elderly, understandably, is expected to jump by leaps and bounds.

Opponents of health care spending right now would have you believe that investments in health care are irresponsible given the state of our economy. However, health care is only the second most expensive single line item next to defense spending. The US spends some $800 billion annually on defense. By most estimates, that figure is about 40% of the world’s total spending on defense annually.

I offer that if opponents of the public option plan were truly concerned with the costs involved, they would be more genuine in identifying the problem areas of our national budget.

I also offer that if “cost concerns” were legitimate, then those that voice these concerns would be honest enough to let us know that lower insurance costs put less burden on small and big business, which frees up capital that those businesses can invest and/or reinvest.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

The other “con” argument I keep hearing is that this public option will deteriorate the quality of care delivered.

But that has already happened because of the private managed care system.

Price and cost have swirled so far out of control that (and the complexity of the regulatory system is so rigorous that) developing new medicine has become cost-prohibitive in the United States. Instead, big Pharma has opted to develop medicines and release them in Europe or Asia first, and bring them to the US only after recouping development costs.

People outside of the US routinely get access to new, cutting edge medicine before people inside the US system. That fact begs for cost containment, or else we risk a status quo where we continue to handcuff our doctors and ourselves by limiting access to the very best in medicine.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

Man this one is timely. Michael Moore just came out and said Capitalism is evil. If this was three weeks later I would say think that Carl Moore saw the story and made the strip on it but it was just a day or two ago.

Still I would like to see Michael Moore give away all the money that the Capitalist system has given him. Then I would show him some respect.
Buzzy-One said, 2 months ago

kajunklown, you should get the post of the day award, but there’s some mighty important people posting here, just ask them.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 2 months ago

I just visited Michael Moore’s website & guess what’s in Bold Red Letters -

CAPITALISM IS EVIL

(I don’t know how some folks get theirs to come out red in comments - it would make for good special effects here).

Also found on his web site: “‘You Cannot Regulate Evil’; “You have to eliminate it and replace it with something that’s good for all people, and that something is called democracy.” – Michael Moore””

http://michaelmoore.com/

Evil lurking in a Capitalist System has been well documented since last December - Bernie Madoff. Perhaps it’s some of the Evil People which have given Capitalism a bad reputation…

(Thanks for the help 2cents)
jmworacle said, 2 months ago

wndrwrthg said, about 9 hours ago

Who to trust, corporations who only exist to make a profit or a Government bureaucracy?

That’s easy: NEITHER

Big business loves government control because it helps stifles their competition. It doesn’t matter whether it is a ‘Republocrat’ or a ‘Demouplician’ administration. Like the character Dominic Green said in “Quatom of Solace”: “We work equally with Democracies and Dictatorships alike to accomplish our goals.”

As for the fablous heatlhcare system in Cuba, having grown up and spent most of my life in the Miami, Florida area you can ask the Cuban people about the “wonders” of Fidel. A co-worker ws telling me that her sister needed an operation and her doctor told her: “I can’t afford to give you an anestetic. The best I can offer is Benedryl unless you can pay extra for the service.” Even more so in these so-called “People’s Republics” the elites are exempt from the rules they expect the “people” are expected to follow. This was told to me two years ago by the way.

Just like once Obamacare gets passed, the Centeral Government will be exempted and will have a better private plan for them.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

Ok Web who put you in charge and said that this strip was your personal Bully Pulpit. As for answers let’s start on making insurance portable Chching, something both sides want. If the public option is so great why are 50 house blue dogs against the idea? The right are the ones going over ½ way here.

The reason why so many people don’t want the public option is that yes, it is to costly when everyone is unemployed, there are “gasp” bigger issues at the moment. Not wanting the government option dose not make them bad. Second at some point it is immoral to ask to support everyone else’s healthcare. Your own numbers supported this. Soon it will be 20% of the gross domestic product. Look at that number, the Gross Domestic Product for our military is about 4%. Spending more money is just not an option.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

jmworacle

You get my post of the day vote. I love to here from people who lived in Cuba. Cuba loves to say the US embargo is the cause of all there problems. But the truth is we export very little so for the past twenty years the embargo should effect Cuba very little.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

JG

Good post. Hope art imitates life soon and the three spirits come and slap Michael Moore.
twright64 said, 2 months ago

So what’s wrong with the profit motive? It’s what MADE this country, it’s what sets us apart from the old USSR, Cuba & North Korea. Even once-totalitarian China has opened up to the profit motive. I was in Guangzhou, an economic special zone, and it was amazing what those folks are doing once their profit-making potential was open to them.
Those who are cursing the “bad & greedy” profit-mongers are acting exactly like Obummer and his socialist pals want you to - like sheeple.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

DavidDow sorry your wrong:

Here is a link to a british news paper. It is scary:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100008455/the-liverpool-care-pathway-may-be-the-slippery-slope-to-backdoor-euthanasia/

I found this first on fox news so I looked up Dr. Hargreaves and found this article in the telegraph. It is scary. To be honest our survival rate is over Europe’s.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

twright64

bleeep you I already gave my vote for the post of the day to GJ. \

it was D.A.R.N but it came out bleep.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

jack … you are fundamentally incapable of comprehending anything. you prove that time and again.

bully pulpit? i’m just putting some thoughts out there. don’t like them? move on. but get over yourself.

i said that HC spending will soon be 20% UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. don’t just take half a sentence and try to play “turn around” with me.

what you failed to read is that i didn’t call anyone bad for being against the public option. i said it is disingenuous and dishonest to continually make up lies and bend the facts to manipulate people into going along.

you, obviously, have been duped on the grandest scale. you have bought the anti-public option message hook, line and sinker. you are exactly the single-minded lost soul that these falsehoods are aimed at.

you really should congratulate yourself.

what i offered here was a chance for you to see a different perspective. but you are so locked in your own little world and tunnel vision that you can’t see past your own nose.

and that’s precisely why you see no problem in posting something like this:

“it is immoral to ask to support everyone else’s healthcare”

that is neither the issue at hand, nor is it correct to assume that you have any more right to health and life than anyone else.
butch1942 said, 2 months ago

Michael Moore is evil
DavidDow said, 2 months ago

WebEd., there is no point arguing or discussing w/ jack. His remarks show that, when he’s not copying & pasting from regressive sources, he’s drinking. His self-written remarks sound just like someone who has hit the bottle pretty hard.

Thanks for your coherent remarks over these days about health-care. I am concerned about the defection of the Blue dogs, including my own representative, Jim Cooper, who hid in his office through August, then claimed that “the people had spoken loud & clear [sic]”. I trust that President Obama will decide to plunge in and, with Harry Reid, can keep the Senate Democrats & Independents together. They can pass a bill w/out Republicans.

Thanks, Jack, for the citation of Gerald Warner’s column in The Daily Telegraph. It’s not factual, however: It’s a column by a fear-mongering reactionary voice. When you have some facts that the British health care system is deteriorating, then please supply them. Otherwise, please don’t write until you sober up.
mroberts88 said, 2 months ago

The more I think about it, the more a government option makes sense, as long as its only for those who cant afford otherwise.

Capitalism is not evil. If someone goes to college, and becomes a lawyer, or a doctor, they should be paid like it. If someone drops out of H.S. and doesnt pursue a GED, they should be paid like it. People should be paid for the job they do.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

Ok David prove it, how do you know it is fear mongering.
Can you show an example of fear mongering? You also proved my point from yesterday. Insult some one to change the subject. Low Rent.

Web as for calling people bad check out the tone of your own writings. Maybe your not such a good debater I don’t know but if all you do is move to personal attacks everyday do you think you will win anyone over. Same for David.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

David Web I almost feel I am kicking some one when they are down. The head of the Senate Finance committee is saying the public option is off the table. Now a good bill might go through that everyone agrees with. This is a good thing.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

“Web as for calling people bad check out the tone of your own writings.”

so now you’re a mind reader? you can read what i wrote and take away not what i actually wrote, but what i was really trying to say?

dude, if you can’t see a distinction between me saying these folks have bad ideas and me calling them bad people … well, then i don’t know what to tell you.

(and ohbytheway … the public option has been rumored to be off the table for 3 weeks. aside from reporting old news, you still haven’t changed my OPINION that the public option ought to be in play)
harleyquinn said, 2 months ago

Sure he hates capitalism. It has treated him so poorly. I mean where else his he going to find a bunch of mind numb to pay for a ticket to one of his movies. Further more I am sure he spared no expense in making the film because turning a profit would be so evil.

And how dare those evil profit making movie houses charge so much. His propaganda should be free for the masses. I mean it is not like he is going to make a dime showing how bad it is to make money. America can just be so evil sometimes when you have to charge someone for a movie.
sablebrush5 said, 2 months ago

If Obama is so intent on bringing down the cost of healthcare why hasn’t he addressed one of the most serious factors driving up its cost - tort reform?

Lawyers attacking doctors in court and winning enormous monetary judgements with their overblown sob stories about medical mistakes is way out of control and needs capping. Because of these gigantic judgements - some running into the billions of dollars - doctors must pay outrageous malpractice insurance premiums and practice defensive medicine which means unnecessary tests, scans, etc. which jacks up the cost of medical care.

This does not mean patients shouldn’t have recourse to the courts for doctors’ mistakes. But it does mean some sort of cap is needed to keep these ridiculously high judgements at a reasonable level.

But Obama completely neglects this huge aspect of the problem. It’s as if tort reform didn’t even exist. Why? Because he’s indebted to lawyers for contributing mightily to his campaign. Does this make Obama just another grubby politician? Is ignoring one of the most serious drivers of medical costs for political reasons a grubby political thing to do? Hmm…
Tigger said, 2 months ago

MM has less Brain Matter than a Wooden Goose.
Buzzy-One said, 2 months ago

jack75287, you - are - as- noted - indeed - simple.
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

Tort reform is a necessity. But it is hardly the miracle panacea to cure the costs and prices of our HC system.

I’ve never heard of a billion dollar judgment against a doctor or health care system. The only billion dollar judgment I’ve ever heard of is the $2.3 billion fine that Pfizer had to pay for illegal marketing practices. But that’s another story.

Overblown sob stories? Hospital-borne infections kill some 90K people a year. Add in the number of preventable mistakes, wrong site surgeries, and other errors, and these stories are hardly sob-worthy or overblown.

In fact, it is these mistakes that are costing the health care system billions of dollars a year. But that’s another story.

Doctors don’t practice defensive medicine. They merely practice medicine in a system that allows them to pass unchecked costs off on insurance companies. They provide “all those tests” because someone will always pick up the tab for them. The only limit on excessive testing practices is typically institutional policies that dictate what a doctor can or cannot request.

Doctors and hospitals don’t have to reveal costs and prices. They can set whatever price they want. They can keep charging whatever they want for services because no one knows the real costs or prices. There is no competition to lower costs; private care is a ubiquitous, profit-driven element in health care. This hidden cost system bilks the health care system to the tune of billions of dollars a year.

Proportionally, tort reform would chip away only a small amount of cost and price in the system. Whether Obama is pandering to campaign contributors is immaterial; whether tort reform is just one tiny, small portion of the whole problem is a far more pressing concern.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

Buzzyone

Who is more simple minded. The simpleton or the guy who throws insults because he is to cowardly to join a simple debate.
jack75287 said, 2 months ago

sablebrush5

Good post. There is one other thing. The daily kos and moveon.org crowd would crucify him if he let the public option drop.
sablebrush5 said, 2 months ago

webeditor,

“According to a 2005 study in JAMA, over 90 percent of physicians surveyed admitted to practicing defensive medicine. This can range from “positive” defensive medicine, like ordering unnecessary tests, referring to consultants, or performing unneeded procedures; to “negative” defensive medicine, like avoiding high-risk patients or procedures.”

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/04/defensive-medicine.html

“At $210 billion annually, defensive medicine is one of the largest contributors to wasteful spending, and it can manifest in many forms: unnecessary CT scans, MRIs, cardiac testing and hospital admissions. A 2005 survey in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 93% of doctors reported practicing defensive medicine.

When you consider that rampant testing is a major driver of escalating health care dollars, addressing defensive medicine should be a primary goal of cost containment.”

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/04/wasted-medical.html
WebEditor said, 2 months ago

It should be noted that that “survey” (not “study”) was conducted in high-risk subspecialities prone to litigation in the state of Pennsylvania, which is one of the worst for medical liability lawsuits.

Those facts are subject to reporting and sampling bias, meaning they can not be reasonably extrapolated out to the general population of medical practitioners.
LibrarianInTraining said, 2 months ago

MRoberts, I heartily agree. My hubs came up with a brilliant solution that follows that logic.

But there’s a fly in the ointment. People will always, ALWAYS want to get something for nothing. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be nearly as much fraud in the system.

So, yes. People who can afford it should be responsible enough to get health insurance (Or pay out of pocket, as we’ve found that this option is even cheaper than actual insurance) and government healthcare should be reserved for those who need it most.

By the way, for those interested, hub’s plan is something like this:

Every person has a personal health care account. This account will follow them to any doctor, hospital, whatever. No “networks” nor “Preferred providers”. They pay into this account every month, just like an insurance premium. It’s toally optional, no one has to join and there are no financial requirements to be met. There is a minimum payment based on your income, but no max, so you can stash up as much as you like. Kinda like a savings account.

The hospitals maintain these accounts. They have to put the money in a bank, and the bank is required to pay 3% interest on the accounts. (Now you figure, several hundred people paying $100 or more a month into one account and the bank paying at 3%. That’s a lot of money AND it helps stimulate the economy by giving the banks more to work with when it comes to investing.)

That 3% would more than pay for hospital equipment, medications, etc.)

Then, whenever you had to go to the hospital or doctor’s office, the money would be deducted from your savings account. (this money goes to pay hospital staff salaries. That’s ALL it will pay, as the interest rate has already covered overhead costs elsewhere.) Because the account is in your SSN, even if you got sick out of state, the hospital would be able to accept you.

Those who cannot afford a monthly payment will still have healthcare available through the government run system. This is also where you may go if you run out of funds in your account.

No insurance claims to file. No out of network benefits. No deductibles. Just you and a savings account. If you die, the money is distributed to family members. If no family is left to claim the funds, the money is siphoned into the government system. (Donations to the government system are also accepted and will be considered a tax deductible charity contribution.)

The problem with this plan? As long as people think they can get something for nothing, they would never voluntarily save money for the future. We’re simply not a saving society. Look at the stats. No one’s really saving for the future any more.

Except me and hubs, of course! And that’s why our health care costs are so low.

(And it’s not like we’re extremely healthy. I have to see a chiropractor weekly for a year for a severe back injury. And we paid for it with our savings.)
mroberts88 said, 2 months ago

LIT, thats the problem with any plan. No matter how good the plan, there will always be a fly in the vaseline (song reference, I hope someone catches it). Thats a good plan, more detailed than mine.
LibrarianInTraining said, 2 months ago

Thanks. He spent a lot of time thinking it through. We got quotes on several insurance plans available to me (he’s uninsurable) based on my calculations, if I had gotten insurance when it was originally offered to me, I’d have been paying $1,600 more than it cost me to go to the emergency room for my back. (I calculated the premiums times the number of months between when the insurance was offered and my injury.) And this was just the premiums. not the deductible, not the co-insurance. So you’re technically paying for months and moths for nothing.

If I were to put that same premium per month into my private savings account, I’d have spent a little under $2,000 for the ER visit, $3,000 for a year of chiropractic visits, and still would have had money left over in my savings account, earning interest all the while. Not MUCH interest, mind you, but an increase is an increase regardless.

My hubby couldn’t believe insurance was MORE EXPENSIVE than healthcare. So he formulated his plan.

I think he should run for congress or something.
sablebrush5 said, 2 months ago

No doubt about it, Obama delivers an excellent speech. However, except for the small crumb he threw to the Republicans - his agreement to look into medical malpractice reform - it was the same ol’ blah, blah, blah.

If his plan passes and he signs it into law, we are in for government-run healthcare, stagnaion of medical innovation, politicians making decisions about prices, procedures, etc., and we will never return to a free and open healthcare system that has produced the most advanced healthcare in the world.
SQUIDBREAKER said, 2 months ago

As today winds to a close, I carefully check into SOTU.

Comics were lame today, as is this.

HoHum.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 2 months ago

LibrarianInTraining Re: Hub’s idea - sounds like Medical Savings Accounts already available for some folks. Unfortunately Medical Inflation runs alot more than 3% no matter how many folks make “savings deposits”.

I still have my tonsils & appendix, but have had several other occasions to have surgical procedures - Rupture Ear Drum Repair (Tympanoplasty for example). Couldn’t find a $$ amount so I googled a more common procedure -

How much does it cost for an Appendectomy & found:

” Price Report
Average Hospital Charges: $12,485
Average Doctor Charges: $3,364
Average Total Cost: $ 15,850

Average Hospital Days: 2
Average (High?) Cost: $11,157
Average High Cost: $18,768

These are all billed charges and do not reflect member benefits or insurance discounts.”

http://www.healthcarefees.com/inpatientSurgery/appendectomy.php

One of the nice things about having my own BC/BS coverage (pay $575/month with $1000. deductible) is that my Premium Payments are tax deductible as well as my out of pocket expenses (80/20% after deductible is met).

It’s draining my savings, but I’d be in BIG TROUBLE if I had something more serious than Appendicitis like Cancer. U’d be hard pressed to save enough for something that costly - let alone AIDS, Cystic Fibrosis, or experience being in a Car Accident. Things happen & that’s how some folks lose their life savings & homes.

BTW - Do U know how much one used to make on interest back in the late 70’s to early 80’s (those Carter years folks like to complain about). About 8-14% on CD’s & 6-7% on pass book savings. Of course Prime Lending Rate made alot of folks scream - about 20-21% if memory serves me well today.

http://mortgage-x.com/general/indexes/codi_history.asp

My bank savings (Money Market Acct) is currently at 0.62% - wonder why more folks are saving? 3% sounds good at today’s interest rates - but would it be enough to keep you & your family out of bankruptcy court if some one U love is in pain & needs medical attention - STAT?
jmworacle said, 2 months ago

butch1942 said, about 10 hours ago

Michael Moore is evil

No he is just dumb. With his new movie coming out about “the evils” of capitalism it would be fitting to show him a lesson on how the free market works by not patronizing his movie.
mroberts88 said, 2 months ago

I agree jmworacle. Communism and Socialism only work in theory, although the U.S. has some socialist aspects, they are not full blown socialism. People need to realize these are two failed ideologies. Capitalism works because people are rewarded for working, and punished by working less (although this isnt always the case).
LibrarianInTraining said, 2 months ago

GJ, did u miss the part about the government run system for those who can’t afford it?

And I hope that BCBS policy holds out. Just yesterday I had a patient who was in a major car accident. Multiple traumatic fractures. She needs long term physical therapy. The problem? She’s already used close to her $5,000 allowable for the year. She only has enough funds remaining in her policy for 6 PT visits. After that, she’s screwed. Unless she can figure out a way to learn PT on her own until January 1, 2010. And yes, it’s a BCBS policy.

$575/month? Goodness! Think on this:

Supposing you have your policy for 5 years before you require any major hospital work.

575x12x5=34,500 and don’t forget that deductible!

So $35,500 in 5 years.

You just paid for nearly TWO average hospital visits. And you could have had that money in a bank collecting interest all the while!

Glad your premiums are tax deductible. Most aren’t or those who have them don’t know they are.

So unless you need, oh, I don’t know, a major organ transplant, I’m pretty sure you’ll be ok.

The reason most people go into bankruptcy from medical bills is because they DON’T have anything saved up, and some jerk case manager determines that this particular services isn’t covered. (As is the case with one of my patients whose insurance will cover DME but not wound care supplies. Guess who’s been paying out of pocket to have his wounds packed every day?)

State of the Union by Carl Moore

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CAPITALISM IS EVIL

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CAPITALISM IS EVIL

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