State of the Union by Carl Moore

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slug_queen said, 3 months ago

And who is responsible for the bailouts?

And if November ‘10 is supposed to be so scary, tell me why are the approval ratings for the GOP still in the 20s?
slug_queen said, 3 months ago

To answer yesterdays question, from Mytinytown I think-

Yes, it is nearly 1100 pages, and yes I read it. NO IT DOES NOT COVER ABORTION. The federal government does not cover abortions now either. If someone tells you otherwise, they are LYING to you. And you need to sit back and have a hard think about WHY they are lying to you.

And yes, due to the provisions of the Hill-Burton Act, if you walk into an emergency room in grave condition, they must render you aid. But they are only required to stabilize you to the point that you are no longer in immediate danger. At that point they can transfer you or boot you out the door. ER is not a health care option. It is only for emergencies. The fact that some of them have pity on folks and treat non-emergency cases is a testament to the hearts of the American people.

However, one must understand part of the equation here: a great deal of emergency room visits are due to things that could have been treated earlier at much less expense, and things that require regular maintenance care. People with heart conditions, high blood pressure, etc., who are not getting regular treatment and monitoring, end up in ER in much more serious condition than they would be if they were getting care. People with a case of the flu end up in ER with pneumonia. Health care costs are driven up because non-critical care becomes critical.

I have heart problems, thyroid problems, and a neurological problem that acts a lot like Parkinson’s. I was in the ER two weeks ago with chest pains, and a subsequent angiogram turned up some things that shouldn’t be there. I’m in deep kimchee. And if I wasn’t getting regular, detailed care and taking my meds, I would end up in and out of ER, running up heaven knows how may dollars of bills, until I die. Do you know how much a day in cardiac care costs? It can be over $100,000. It tends to make the costs of a bottle of Cardizem look like a deal. And to get to Cardizem, you have to see a doctor first…

The President told us, in plain English: “It will not be easy.” But it is necessary.
sablebrush5 said, 3 months ago

For the last six months the talking heads on TV have been chortteling (SP?) about who can revive the Republican party? Well, the answer is becoming clear - it’s Barack Obama.

Obama and the Dems have been overreaching to beat the band and are now paying the consequences. Americans still like Obama a lot, but are rejecting this ramming down our throats a leftist Leviathan state of ever-growing bureaucracies, mountains of deficits, over-regulation, an army of “czars,” Obamian experts on every corner ready to tell us what we need to know about living the good life.

The wheels are coming off the public option in his healthcare plan and what he’s left with and signs in the Oval Office will be touted by the liberal media as a great victory, but everyone will know that this “victory” will be a stripped-down, impotent load of healthcare insurance mush, a chipping at the edges of healthcare insurance that the right will scoff at, and the left will see as a ridiculous failure to put us on the road to single-payer, government-run healthcare.

What Obama, Rahm Emanuel, Robert Gibbs and the rest of these hotshots are getting from the American people is a big fat dollop of humility plopped into their fast-disappearing arrogance.
Buzzy-One said, 3 months ago

This site has more than it’s share of wingnutz, good place for a laugh.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 3 months ago

It’s a shame to place all the blame on President Obama. The man is trying to help All Americans - even those who protest & call him names. A noble man willing to listen to folks and make Health Care Reform a priority during a time of Economic Turmoil.

SOTU - has it’s share of “Shills”. From Wiki:

“The term is applied metaphorically to journalists or commentators who have vested interests in or associations with parties in a controversial issue. Usually this takes the form of a show or network pretending to be offering news when in fact they are simply repeating talking points offered by a political party.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

While looking at the Wiki definition of Shill - I saw “Sock Puppetry & clicked on the Blue Highlighted Link:

“In current usage, the perception of the term has been extended beyond second identities of people who already post in a forum to include other uses of misleading online identities. For example, a NY Times article claims that “sock-puppeting” is defined as “the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

Thanks farleftside - Now I know what U mean when U write: “Bring on the Sock Puppets.” Is it in reference to: ”
Palin/Jindl 2012” OR The Jokers like marktrail Imposter & Somegup53?
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 3 months ago

On a more serious note: I googled estimated costs health care & found this by the National Coalition on Health Care:

“Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care”

“By several measures, health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate and forcing businesses and families to cut back on operations and household expenses respectively.

In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent – two times the rate of inflation. Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person.”

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Makes the Projected Cost of 1.5 Trillion in the last panel seem like a Deal compared to the Actual Cost of 2.4 Trillion in 2007.
Lewreader said, 3 months ago

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the reason we are keeping people alive so long is because we have gone to extreme lengths and spent extreme money to do so. 100 years ago this care was not available and people lived till 50.If you have the means to live till 90, good for you. Do you expect me to work and pay taxes so you can live till twice your life expectancy when you spent your life unemployed, sitting on the couch, smoking and drinking? Perhaps you’d like me to pay for you pet’s vet bills too. You want unlimited health insurance? Get off your butt and earn it. You have a fatal disease. That’s the breaks.
sthnprince said, 3 months ago

Look at the raging success that Medicare medicaid and the VA health care are. How could anyone really was government controlling heath care for everyone?
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

waitliftin (yesterday)
Thank you for sticking up for me about the law makers not reading every page. As well, nice to see you graduated from such a good school. I live about 40 minutes away from Notre Dame and my mom loved watching play basketball.
ChuckTrent64 said, 3 months ago

The Republicans are sure optimistic. Especially when they were the ones saying that the country wouldn’t last until 2010 if Obama were elected. If we are all doomed,
why are they concerned about 2010? I don’t understand.
waitliftin said, 3 months ago

Tiny, not a problem, you were one of the only people yesterday pointing out the real problems with our system and the acceptance of the American people that our system is not perfect but yet some think that this imperfect system is going to produce perfect results for our health care issues.

Slugqueen I would be willing to bet a year’s salary on the fact that you are lying about reading the bill, if you have what version of the bill have you read? There is no final bill out there.
twright64 said, 3 months ago

slug_queen
If the polls for Repubs as low as you say then the Dems
must be craning their necks looking UP at the bottom:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/moodofamerica/genericcongressional_ballot

(copy and paste into browser)
Kees said, 3 months ago

Marktrail,
could it be that despite your avater you are female? and most definite a BLOND one?
What is the real % of americans that DO have a health insurance?
America the land of the unlimited oportunities, the land that can make all your dreams come through……… Yes in hollywood (maybe). But don’t forget to bring your own money!!
About 30 years ago, bob dillan said: FOR $5 THE FLOWER IS FREE. This slogan came to mind after reading your daily commentary.
Bush, A texan senile idiot, that does not know the difference between a cow and a horse, with loads of money he did not have to work for, with great grand parrents that OWNED a hell of a lot slaves,
can -in your eyes- do nothing wrong and anybody else therefore must do everithing wrong.
Let’s make a gues, you are all in favor of the free weapons bill (or whatever you may call it) Every american must hae the wright to own a gun. Why not grand a subsidy for every american that wants to have a HK USC, that way, you can sit back and releax, while your fellow americans whipe each-other out!!!!take as example the sportschool in Pennsylvania!!!!! This is What BUSH PROMOTES. This is the real way of dealing with your plans. Kill eachother, no more money shortage, no stimilus packages needed, no more unemployment….. Let’s go for it

Marktrail, Open your eyes!!!

PS: I have choosen my avater with grat care: Harry Potter…He lookes so like our prime minister :-)))
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

Lewreader …

Please tell me you’re joking. That may be the most asinine, ludicrous thing I have ever read on the Internet. Ever. And we have MarkTrail here to keep things interesting.

Seriously? You’re complaining because people live longer? And who are you to decide who lives and who doesn’t? Are you God? Or just a moron with delusions of grandeur?

You know, Adolf Hitler thought that an entire class of people were an undue burden to his vision of society. Your fascist sense of “eugenics as health care reform” where you suggest that we should wipe out the elderly is the exact same thing. And it’s just … stupid.
slug_queen said, 3 months ago

Someguy, your reply was offensive. And stupid. And makes the assumption that someone with heart problems ate their way there. Which is not the case.

And Waitliftin, I have read the bill. It is known as HR 3200 and it is online. And it took me the better part of two days to read it.

It is not a perfect bill. But it is better than what we have now.
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

Kees, Bush was not born in TX, he was born in Connecticut, or some other northern state. Slavery ended over 100 years ago, nearly 150, so because of the fact that my great great great granddad fought for the C.S.A, I am a racist? If that is what you are thinking, you are wrong. Slavery is and was wrong, but its over, it is illegal now, I doubt seriously that Bush owns slaves.

I dont want to get into this debate again, but I feel it coming on. Not every American should have a gun, it is fine the way it is. If I am a law abiding citizen, why shouldnt I have an assault weapon. Please, before you attack me, please tell me what an assault weapon is.
Kees said, 3 months ago

Mrobers88,
Indeed let’s nog go in debate over guns.
I hate them, The should be forbidden, banned out of this world. To have the possiblity to own them is the same as having the possibilty to use them is the same as accidentaly kill somebody, ……… well wars started over less.
We in holland have a stupied saying: “Needless Violance” To me any violance is by definition needless!

The slavery had nothing to do whit racism, but all to do with “making easy money” in this case litteraly over somebodies elses back.

But since it is legal in America to own a gun (or more?) Why not put 250% tax on the amo?, that way I nodoubtly think that your goverment health-insuance can be financed :-)
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

I’m against gun control. I love firearms. They are dangerous, and if not used with caution, like anything else, can kill someone. Honestly, I’m against an ammo tax, because the criminals are still going to go around it, and in some places, cops have to buy their own ammo, which would make an already dangerous job more dangerous. Instead of the tax, why not have stricter laws against people who use guns in a crime?

Why not instead, tax 10% of everyones income, to pay for the health care system, or those that will use the government one?

You said violence is needless, people should have the right to defend themselves. In Texas, if someone enters my home, place of work (so long as its not a “gun free zone”), or vehicle, and try to do harm to me, or others, so long as they are uninvited, I may take whatever steps necessary to defend myself. That criminal may possibly have a gun, and if I cant pay enough for ammo, I’m at a disadvantage.
I would love to live in a world where criminals didnt have guns, and no firearm was banned, sadly, thats not the case.
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

Buzzy-One
Go away you troll!
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

And so, mr roberts, because we can not lift ourselves up to a higher plane, we should continually support a system that perpetuates the culture of fear and violence in our society?

By your own admission, we should strive for a world where violence is not a desirable option. But instead of taking proactive steps against that end, we should simply all buy guns so that there is an aura of mutual destruction.

Well, I suppose that does have precedent. We kept the Commies at bay for 50 years with the idea of mutual destruction. But I don’t think the Red Scare ended until there was a paradigm shift in ideology.

Ultimately it is not force that stops force. Ultimately it is ideas that are triumphant. As soon as we resort to our basest of instincts and resort to violence as a first resort – even to answer violence – we surrender that which is inherently human: reason.

The pen *is* mightier than the sword.
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

GJ_Jehosaphat
You may feel President Obama is trying to help the American people, I just don’t feel that way. It has been proven HUGE “stimulus” packages do nothing be cause inflation. Printing money we do not have is not good at all. Socialized healthcare, as it was called a few months ago based on the Cuban system is a failure waiting to happen. BTW If it was so good why doesn’t Congress use it as well? I am NOT for the government takeover of any private industry. The government pushing there way in to something is what breaks it (Medicaid and Medicare are good examples). I admit I use them, I don’t really have a choice, but I hate it. I hardly take anyone to the Doctors. The government pays so little that the hospitals must charge insurance companies and uninsured more to cover the loss. Trust me, this will get worse, while raising taxes on your employer. How stupid is this?!?!
BTW Liberals on here rip me every single time I use Wikipedia as a reference.
Word of knowledge by putting a \ in front of a _ makes it appear in URLS (its a programming thing).
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

Editor, I’m not saying that. You will have those that will take advantage of the disarmed, they are known as criminals.

As an example, if we both have guns pointed at each others heads, we will either A. Kill each other, or B. Talk things out.

Criminals will not talk things out, and as I said before, they fear people who are armed. If I am a criminal, and I have a gun, I will be less open to dialogue if my victims arent armed. This statement can be debated, but if not for nukes, the cold war may have been very hot.

You said force does not stop force, however, neither does surrendering, and becoming a victim.
Kees said, 3 months ago

Radical knight
I like to see your Dutch! Picking on somebodies language skill is not that hard. Maybe because you have nog real reason to be a member of the NRA other than ” i like the smell of gunpowder”

In holland NOBODY may own a gun, unless you have a special permit, AND a member of a shooting range club.

mroberts88,
To defend oneselves in ones own house, lets say a burglar that wants to have my money and I kick him downstairs, is a crime! it can getme in jail. I should summon the burglar 3 times to get him out of my house, warn him that if he does not, i will call the cops, and if in the time between my call and the arival of the cops he splits with my money, I should let him walk.
But on the other hand, do you think you would have the time to reach for your gun, out of the strongbox, load it, put the safety of and aim it at the burglar if he is already having his point blank against your head?

As stated already, pro or against discussions, it is a no win issue on either side.
We have a progressive income tax system.
26% of every Euro up to 26000 a year,
If you make more than this, from the 26001 to 45000 you pay 32% and if you make more than this, all above it is 50%
Social services are still pritty much in order, everybody has a standard health insurance package, costing approx 90 Euro a month. If you want extra’s (like special dental care, or a private room in a hospital) you pay extra.
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

bakker, I said in TX, the law is different everywhere.

But on the other hand, do you think you would have the time to reach for your gun, out of the strongbox, load it, put the safety of and aim it at the burglar if he is already having his point blank against your head?

Considering I’m a light sleeper, with dogs, yes, I’ll have the gun loaded and I’ll be ready to go by the time the door is kicked in.

marktrail, thank you for echoing my point on criminals largely attacking people that are unarmed, and for adding one more point that I didnt think of.
tizzo said, 3 months ago

FarLeft:

“For anyone that cares to check the numbers, Mr. Obama is only responsible for 10% of the current deficit spending.”

Actually, even if you charge all of TARP to Bush, which passed by the way with the support of Obama and the universal opposition of house Republicans, the deficit from Bush’s last year in office was around $900B.

Obama’s deficit so far is $1.2T, including stimulus (the portion spent so far) and excluding health care, and is projected to go as high as $1.8T. This amount, 100% of which is Obama’s responsibility by the way (the only inherited big-ticket item was TARP, and this year’s $350B had to be specifically authorized by Obama, it was not a non-discretionary expenditure), is close to double the deficit inherited from Bush.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

The number one deterrent to a robber entering your home is … the sound of a dog barking.

Not the fear of an armed homeowner.

Criminals do not fear the armed. They only arm themselves with bigger weapons.

Do guns have a place? Yes. Citizens have a constitutional right to firearms. It is in line with proper checks and balances.

But should we just surrender to a culture of violence because “that’s what everybody else is doing?” That is just moral weakness. And lack of conviction.

It’s funny that MarkTrail made a reference to the 10 Commandments. Pretty sure that Christian theology teaches to love thy neighbor and to turn the other cheek. There may also be something about murder in those commandments as well. And I’m pretty sure the book ends with God having final judgment over the souls of man, not other men.

It’s just lame to cherry pick the parts of the bible that fit your argument while ignoring the rest of the text and the context in which it should be interpreted.
waitliftin said, 3 months ago

Tizzo dont bother, no one cares to look at facts. Not the republicans, not the democrats no one.

The liberals right now will blame Obama’s spending on Bush just like the Conservatives used to blame Bush’s spending on Clinton.

It is all cyclical and when the next admin comes in they will blame their spending on Obama.

But yes he has spent a lot on his own volition.

Kees maybe you should try researching, ammo is already taxed at incredibly high rates, it is just incredibly cheap to make. If we wanted to be like Holland we would all have to take yoga so we could become flexible enough to blow ourselves.
jmworacle said, 3 months ago

Maektrail, please give “the pro-abortion marxist” phrase a rest. You’ve made your point. My good friend Farleft, spending has increase radically since President Obama has taken office. As for his plan to ruin- er-reform the health care system, where is it in the bill about tort reform? I heartilly agree if a physician is found negligent he or she should be held accountable for their mistakes but there needs to be some sommon sense. If a person’s track record as a physician is poor then like a driver who has a poor performance needs to have their liscense to pratice medicine suspended or revoke and the other states in the union need to honour that. Also, let insurance companies compete across state line but THERE MUST BE STRICT OVERSITE in order to protect the consumer.
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

I’m not saying it isnt, but dont forget, Jesus killed a tree, because it didnt produce good fruit. Ok, if I dont have dogs, but I might have a gun, and if you enter, and I do, you may end up dead.

Criminals arent diplomats, they are predators. They are going to go after someone who cant protect themselves.

Jesus also ran people out of a temple, using a whip, because they were turning it into a house of sin. People forget, that the first time Jesus came, he was a diplomat, the next time, it will be as a warrior. If I offended anyone, i’m sorry.

We shouldnt surrrender to it, but we must have something to defend us. Walk softly, and carry a big stick. I’ve always interpreted that to mean, be diplomatic, but if the time comes for violence, be ready.
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

sthnprince
Success of Medicaid and Medicare?? Are you serious?
They pay nothing to the doctors and hospitals, why else don’t everyone take them (especially dentists)???

waitliftin
I really don’t care if someone calls me a liar on here. Or suggests that I am being lied to, especially if they think President Obama is the man that will fix it all.

WebEditor
OHH!!! You quoted Hitler!?!
Impressed! I feel liberals and Hitler had something in common too.
He killed millions of Jews and you all have killed millions of babies.
He took control of a body of people and made them believe that wrong was right.
Want more?

mroberts88
Assault weapons seem to be rifles that are fully automatic and have larger clips (AKA Class 3 weapons). Pistols are not assault weapons. I stand by your gun ideas.

kees-c-bakker
You must not believe int he US constitution then, so I will not comment any further about your blind ignorance of the 2nd amendment.
But do you own a car? Tons of people are “accidentally” killed by cars, you want to ban those too?
A 250% ammo tax? Can you say Tea Party?? It is taxation with out representation. But I would not expect die hard liberals to understand that.
jack75287 said, 3 months ago

satipera4

Well if you had it shows it came back from the Canadian press. Just reproduced and it lead to another link with the whole story. Also when did you ever give a bibliography here. This was just another attempt to distracted when a point comes up you cannot win.

As for the gun control debate. If this is linked to the nuts who brought the guns to Obama Rallies, shame on them. I believe in the second amendment but there is a time for that kind of protest. Notify your city in advance and tell them what you plan. You cannot have a free flow of ideas when people go to a political rally like that. At least they carried it in the open which is were it needs to be not all this concealed carried stuff.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

mytinytown …

I didn’t quote Hitler. I referenced Hitler. And the analogy fit.

I have never killed anyone. Much less babies. You’re assuming an awful lot. I mean … a lot.

And if you can’t see the difference between Hitler and liberals … then you’re a lost cause.

But if by “want more” you mean that you want to keep making a fool of yourself, then by all means …
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

tiny, an assault weapon is a weapon that has a selector that can go single shot (semi automatic), three round burst, or full auto. I was wondering if someone would answer that question.

Jack, they are doing it legally, at least. However, bad judgment on their part.

Editor, where did you quote/reference Hitler? That post is apparently gone, and I want to know what brought that up.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

mroberts …

Yup. Criminals are predators. Agreed.

Just don’t think Christian theology is serviceable in defending gun ownership. It is the meek that shall inherit the earth and delight in the abundance of peace. Might is antithetical to Christianity. Might never makes right.

Jesus chased the sinners out of the temple … because they were defying the will of God. Jesus is God, so his actions were the embodiment of the Lord’s judgment. Any act of “violence” perpetuated by Jesus was done in God’s name and done by God Himself to answer defiance of His law. These actions, as performed by the embodiment of God Himself, should not be emulated by mortal beings.

The bible is quite clear when it comes to the realm of man that violence only begets violence. That we should turn to love, even in the face of evil.

The problem in arming the citizenry is that it seeks to answer violence with violence. We never look at the antecedent causes of violence. Instead, we only buy bigger guns. And that creates a system where might does in fact make right.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

mroberts …

I referenced Hitler in response to one “Lewreader” who made some preposterous, whiny statement about people living too long. As of this writing, the post is still up there. That person seemed to suggest that people with fatal diseases ought to just go and die; that they are just useless sucks on the health care system. And I just pointed out that that line of thinking is dangerously close to the willful extermination of so-called undesirables.
Shaliach said, 3 months ago

Re: Gun Control

What would happen if we had a prohibition of guns similar to the prohibition of alcohol?
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

Editor, I agree, the Bible shouldnt be used for, or against gun control. I just think that if the prey has the means to fight back, they should. I also think that people should try and talk things out first.

Shaliach, crime would probably go up.
Shaliach said, 3 months ago

Wait…what happened to the beginning posts? FLS and Mark have been deleted!
DavidDow said, 3 months ago

Someguy, the housing market is improving, and stock prices are rising. The stimulus is working. There may have been other—even better—ways to help America in the throes of Bush-Dick’s recession, but this one is working, and it raised the federal deficit only a fraction of the rise it had over the twenty years of Reagan-Bush-Bush-Dick. As I’ve told TinyT., anyone who cares about the deficit—like Someguy & Carl Moore—should be praising Bill Clinton. He is the only president over the last forty years to lower the deficit.

Slug., that is one of the best remarks I have ever read on this site. Thank you.

Sable: “chortling”. Yes, the Republicans are trying to unify against President Obama. They have Big Pharma & Big Insurance on their side. This may all do them some good. Who knows? Obama & the Democrats will pass a health-care reform bill. It may not show noticeable improvement by November 2010, and the Republicans may gain in the elections. They still have no one to run against Obama in 2012, and his approval ratings, though lower, are triple the approval ratings of the Republicans. If the Democrats are smart, then they will keep their caucus together in the Senate, and craft a health-care reform bill that can get cloture. Then, they can call the Republicans the “whining, do-nothing” party, and, next year, remind the voters of how awful everything was from 2001 through 2008. Gas at $4.00 a gallon; 20,000 dead in Iraq; two recessions, the second worse than the first; constant unemployment; stagnating wages; sex scandals in Congress; widespread congressional corruption; &c. Then ask, Do we really want to return to that??

As for health-care: The current system provides “individual choice” if you can get insurance in the first place, and millions can’t & for those who can, the costs outstrip inflation. Thus, “individual choice” is a scam. None of the America-haters at these town-halls has read the bill or has a plan of his/her own. If the Republicans don’t hate America, then let them come up with their own plan.

Certainly, universal single-payer health care is best. It works in Canada & in Europe, and it can work here, but it took twenty years for the America-haters to accept Medicare. If we take some steps today, then we may have single payer by 2050. I’ll be dead, but the next generations will profit from our work despite these forces of negativity.

Farlefty, we established, months ago, that all those against legal abortion don’t support their own beliefs. They claim that abortion is murder, yet they do nothing to stop it. If they truly believed that abortion were murder, then they would be blocking the doors of abortion clinics; they would be stopping doctors & nurses from going to work there, &c. They would be constantly in & out of jail for performing the moral act of stopping murder, but they don’t do so, so don’t listen to them on this subject. Everyone here tacitly or openly accepts legal abortion as a woman’s right. That subject is over.

Thanks for the link, GJJ.

Roberts, gun-control is not today’s subject, and in the last discussion on the subject, you admitted that you would kill a grandmother just to shoot a mugger. You said, “Everyone has to die anyway”. Thus, your justification for owning all the guns you want lost much support & credibility. (By the way, Jesus didn’t use a whip—and probably didn’t act against the moneychangers in the temple, anyway. That was written around 100 C.E., when the early Christians were trying to separate themselves from the Jews.)

TinyT., Congress DOES have socialized healthcare. We should all have what congress has. How can you use Medicaid, and then complain about “socialized medicine”? EVERYONE on Medicaid has no choice! Your situation embodies the reason that we need universal single-payer health-care. No one should use Wikipedia for more than basic facts. I ignore any remark that cites Wikipedia as a source. Taxing bullets, whether a good idea or not, is not taxation w/out representation. Sometimes, TinyT., your misconceptions frighten me. Did you attend ANY school? My best to your wife.
DavidDow said, 3 months ago

To reply to yesterday:

Waitlift., it is not the job of the elected officials to read the bills. Where is that in the Constitution? It’s their job—in the Senate & the House—to pass laws. Certainly, they are responsible to know what the bill says. In your second paragraph, you admit that much legal work needn’t be read. If you are so concerned about the bill, then record yourself reading it aloud, and send copies or mp3 attachments—to every member of Congress.

In what way, Waitlift., will this health-care reform bill change “the very core principals of America”?

Woracle, insurance companies keep costs down by throwing people off their rolls. Thus, we have millions without health insurance.

Tizzo, members of Congress who tried to defend themselves after voting for something by claiming that then hadn’t read the bill should be ashamed of themselves. Who did this? Please cite some sources. I agree with you that all members should know what is in a bill before voting on it.
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

david, I said I would shoot the mugger to save the grandma, and since we only have the Bible to go on, it says a whip was used, we have to assume he used one.

Editor, I read your post, I dont understand how what you posted could be bad.

Editor, I agree, we should start out diplomatic, but if it turns violent, we must be ready, and willing to meet violence with violence, if neccesary.

I’m going to get off for a little bit, I have to get ready for tommorow, I will however, be back on later, so for the time being, have a good day everyone.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

I feel this is worth repeating. I said earlier:

“Do guns have a place? Yes. Citizens have a constitutional right to firearms. It is in line with proper checks and balances.”

I do not advocate a ban on guns. I think there is a place for guns. However, I take issue with the argument that we need guns to answer violence. I think it is a flawed logic; and I think it misses the point to quote scripture with reference to gun control.

As a subject of the laws of man, it is in my interest to make sure that those laws of man never become tyrannical. Gun ownership serves that purpose. A prohibition of guns would invite tyranny.

With that said, I think as right thinking human beings, we can do better to confront violence. Reason must rule the domain of humans. And violence of any sort must be an absolute last resort.
jack75287 said, 3 months ago

Web
Very good point. Guns, as strange as it may sound, do a better job of keeping violence from starting then stopping violence after it starts.
waitliftin said, 3 months ago

David, there is no doubt that much of what is in any legal document is what a lot of people like to call legalese, words that surround the facts that make it confusing for the common person to read. Although these words are not necessary to get to the point they need to be read so that the point of the article in question can be accurately deciphered. There in lies the responsibility of our elected officials, to make the most educated decision possible, and that is not passing off your research to someone else, it is doing it yourself. I do realize no where in the constitution is it stated that our elected officials must read every word of every bill that comes along but by that logic no where in the constitution does it say that I should have to work hard to support those who don’t.

As far as answering your question on how the health care reform will change the core of American principles that simple. This bill is proposing the largest government take over of any industry in both size and scope. Why do you want to make people dependent on anything? The last time we did something like this was through the creation of welfare, which very few people think is a system that works, the private version of welfare is almost flawless. What is the private version of welfare you might ask, getting a job, keeping job and in the even of losing your job, getting another job.

I am still kind of surprised that comment about us all blowing ourselves has not been flagged yet!!
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

WOW!!
It looks like farleftside, someguy and marktrail are gone.

I looked at yesterdays remarks and they look gone.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 3 months ago

How did gun control get started when the discussion is about Health Care Reform.

mroberts88 - was it U (again) with this gun fixation? R U still into being a police officer? Remember U have to Pass a Psychological Examination first before they let U roam around playing Cops & Robbers…. And Quit Playing Stupid Re:

“I dont want to get into this debate again, but I feel it coming on. Not every American should have a gun, it is fine the way it is. If I am a law abiding citizen, why shouldnt I have an assault weapon. Please, before you attack me, please tell me what an assault weapon is.”

Y Wait - join the Military & have a good time blowing up living beings! Just Imagine The Nightmares You’ll Have For The Rest Of Your Violence Filled Life (provided U live thru it).

Otherwise - Shut Up and lets go back to the Topic of Health Care Reform.
END OF RANT.
WebEditor said, 3 months ago

I am entirely guilty of taking this thread off topic.

In hopes of bringing it all back home …

waitliftin said:

“As far as answering your question on how the health care reform will change the core of American principles that simple. This bill is proposing the largest government take over of any industry in both size and scope.”

That is erroneous. Government is not taking over health care. Government is not even proposing taking over health care. Government hasn’t even thought about taking over health care.

It is intentional misuse of the facts that is distorting the entire health care debate.

If you want to find Constitutional justification for health care reform, look no further than the “necessary and proper” clause. Health care spending does irrevocable harm to national interests when 17% of GDP must be earmarked for health spending. Lowering that percentage would result in more balanced budgets and better fiduciary responsibility. Thus, it is necessary that government act to lower its burden (and a byproduct of that action is a benefit to private interest) and it is proper that government play this role because private interests have only served to create the mess that government has to clean up.

A strict reading of the Constitution says that “necessary and proper” applies to ensuring that Congress can perform its elucidated powers. But without the financial wherewithal to perform those powers, Congress is a moot, ineffectual body. The necessary and proper clause, then, applies both in letter and principle.
Buzzy-One said, 3 months ago

Tiny Brain, still trying and just not making it.
mroberts88 said, 3 months ago

Well, the gun debate started after kees-c-bakker slightly mentioned guns in one of his posts. I responded.

Now on to the strip. The U.S. was in debt, so could someone please explain how spending money will get us out?
mytinytown said, 3 months ago

satipera4
TROLL:
Read this slowly.
I HARDLY FLAG ANYONE, GET OVER YOUR DEATH THREAT AND REALIZE THAT YOU WERE WRONG.
I NEVER FLAG FARLEFT, I NEVER FLAG MARKTRAIL AND I FLAGGED SOMEGUY 1 TIME.