State of the Union by Carl Moore

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SQUIDBREAKER said, 4 months ago

EMET said, 2 minutes ago
Please yell ‘Fore’ before slinging mud.

Oh Canada we stand on guard for you……

Canada the only nation that claims fencing as its national defence. ‘On guard, eh?’

Roses are red
Penguins wear blue
Sometimes i like to say ‘A’ to you.
SQUIDBREAKER said, 4 months ago

WebEditor said …
(7-01)

”The pen is mightier than the sword.”

Web editor might have said:
The ink of a prophet is better than the blood of martyr.

But he didn’t.

And rock crushes pen…..
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

Who ran GM into the ground?

Unions, CAFE standards and government regulations which add $10,000.00 to the price of a car.

Detroit can’t sell cars when they have such a huge price handicap.

Toyota can build a plant in Kentucky and pay its workers $17.00/hr. compared to a UAW wage of $27.00/hr.

Millions of unemployed workers would gladly take a job that pays $17.00/hr.

Also, Ford manufactures a Focus in Europe that gets over 40 mpg, and a Fiesta that gets over 60 mpg, but they can’t sell the cars in the United States because the environmental socialists won’t let them.

You see, the cars run on diesel; and the environmentalists hate that.

GM–Government Motors–is now under the charge of an Obama appointee who knows nothing about making cars.

Edward Whitacre (former AT&T chief) was appointed to run the automaker after it emerges from bankruptcy, but by his own admission knows nothing about the industry he is overseeing.

A ranking congressional Democrat worries that Obama’s intervention in the automobile industry could become an “economic Vietnam”.

“A”
SQUIDBREAKER said, 4 months ago

CAFE standards: always tougher in France.

(just a giggle maybe?)

Bon nuit.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

Ever hear of golf cart communities where folks use them instead of cars for short trips. Wouldn’t drive cross country in one. My Dodge Sprinter RV conversion van with a Mercedes Diesel engine got 33 miles a gallon on a recent trip to Tacoma (flat lands) vs 24 miles a gallon when I drive over mountain passes. It gets better milage than my gasoline engine Ford Ranger pickup (16 miles/gallon)

So why did GM kill the electric car - the EV1 available in Arizona & California between 1996 - 99. Why did GM only leased them for 3 years but were not available for sale? Why did GM decide to buy the Hummer brand from AM General in 1998 and market them instead of working out issues with lead acid batteries & recharging times for the EV1? Why crush the EV1 instead of selling them to folks who liked them?
jukeofurl said, 4 months ago

Maybe if they only made cars people actually ordered first. Free enterprise has run its course when supply anticipates & exceeds demand by way too many.

Though it does make those anti-human compactors very happy…
jukeofurl said, 4 months ago

As for trains… I’d hate to lose the lovely antique center our train station is now (riding the irony horse)
LibrarianInTraining said, 4 months ago

Someguy,

Gently please. Some of us are union because it’s the only work we can get right now. Not all of us are goons. (though I agree, the union ideal stopped being what it was supposed to be 70 years ago.)
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

The left in America has always hated the automobile, while having a love affair with public transit.

Since 1965, the federal government has spent $60 billion on urban-transit systems. Yet, fewer Americans use urban transit today than 35 years ago. In fact, U.S. Census Bureau data indicate that more Americans walk to work than ride failed inner-city transit systems.

The percentage of people using public transit actually declined in the cities that have built major rail systems over the past 20 years.

Urban traffic congestion is made worse because transportation funds are shifted from building roads to funding public transit that few people use.

Buses in my town are always running empty. How is that environmentally or economically sound?

People have made their transportation choices, but–like everything else–liberals want to make those choices for us.

In 1986, then Democratic Senator William Proxmire awarded his famous “Golden Fleece” award to the Urban Transit Administration. Proxmire correctly noted that transit subsidies were “a spectacular flop”.

In my town, public transit is a failure. It is costly and inefficient. Fares go up, routes are eliminated and ridership declines.

Liberals need to stop telling us what we can drive and how to live.
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

The EV1 was a good idea, but the technology hasn’t been perfected to mass produce such a car; and, quite simply, the economics didn’t justify continuing the line.

In 2000, GM had to recall their electric vehicles including the S10 because they were a fire hazard. (You’d be driving down the road and the car’s thermal unit would catch fire.)

Engineers fixed the problem by fitting the vehicles with a new lead-sealed battery, but the range of these cars was still very limited—around 70 miles.

Cars with limited range are not built around the needs and driving habits of most people.

The left will insist that the EV1 was a conspiracy of failure–that GM wanted it to fail so they could keep making gas cars.

The truth is that GM spent billions of dollars on electric technology that did not prove to be economically viable.
Lewreader said, 4 months ago

When a semiskilled union worker earning $27 an hour tells me Washington is to blame, I listen as I walk to buy my magic beans.
dwyant said, 4 months ago

I think you all missed the point - Gore is an idiot!
Buzzy-One said, 4 months ago

Why all the whimpping and bellybawl about union cost. Just how much does it drive up the cost of an automobile? Have a look at advertising, poor management and a product that just doesn’t sell.
nlnap19 said, 4 months ago

Jor_El: excellent responses. Thanks for taking the time to post.
BirishB said, 4 months ago

Wow. All I read are apologists for the culture of corporate greed and ineptitude that really ran GM and Detroit into the ground.

Blame unions. Yes. The folks who carry a lunch pail to work are suddenly the enemy of America. Real nice, fellas. I fail to understand why blue collar America is the whipping boy while white collar America gets a free pass. Guess its true that money makes all the difference.

Question for all the religious thinkers: isn’t greed one of the deadly sins?

Line workers weren’t in the board room. Line workers weren’t in the R&D labs. Line workers weren’t the ones paying themselves salaries in the tens-of-millions annually.

And most importantly, American auto buyers paid more for foreign cars for decades. If Detroit had put out the same cars, they could have wrapped the cost of union labor into the price. But they did neither. And then they crawled like idiots to Washington for help. And now we are all paying for the culture of greed.

Golf carts. That’s laughable. All we asked for was quality cars and well-run business. But, again, I suppose somehow that is the fault of honest, hard working people who only want a living wage and have safe working conditions.
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

GM’s medical benefits alone cost over $50 billion a year which adds $2000.00 to the price of a car.

(Their advertising budget is less than $500 million.)

When you include the cost of all union benefits the price tag goes even higher.

And Obama is pandering to his union allies by agreeing to pay auto workers to stay home.

It wouldn’t make for good politics to send your voting bloc to the unemployment line.

Incidentally, Karl Marx was a proponent of unions for the purpose of controlling the means of production.

Under Obama, the United States government and the UAW own 89% of GM.

That’s why it is called Marxism…the antithesis of capitalism.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

Re: GM EV1 The electric vehicle R&D development time line provided by PBS (for folks who would rather read than rent the movie):
Check out 2002: “GM and DaimlerChrysler sue… The Bush Administration joins that suit.”
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/electric-car-timeline.html

Perhaps a coincidence the Bush/Cheney are oil men?
Google: Bush Cheney Oil Men - I find the Time magazine story to be interesting - published July 14, 2002. Something about “…Legal but on the wrong side of morality…”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,320735,00.html

Hummmm. 2002 must have been a good year for oil prices. From Business Week:
“Until 2002, oil futures rarely moved above $20 per barrel, and by 2005 they still lagged current prices.”
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_06/b3970078.htm
jmworacle said, 4 months ago

Far-leftside, like your new avatar. The reason why the big three are in the shape they are in is because of not adapting to the market and because of the bending over backwards to the U(useless). Auto Workers Union. In the seventies when U.S. made cars were spending more time in the shop than on the roads the “imorts” were less expensive and more reliable. In a free market, build a better product and the customer will seek you out.
BirishB said, 4 months ago

OK, Jor-El, let’s play the numbers game:

You say that medical benefits add $2000 to the price of a car. Let’s take the union out of the equation – how much would GM be paying for medical benefits then? Or are you saying that GM should not pay for medical benefits at all? That’s a fixed cost irrespective of the union’s presence. And I’d wager that the mass buying power of the union actually keeps that cost lower than a non-union setting.

And these other “union benefits” you mention. What are they? The union itself pays for retirement pensions, etc. The UAW, for instance, pays for retirement medical benefits. GM does not fund retirement medical.

Do you mean overtime pay? Again, take the union out of the equation, and how much is GM paying in labor costs? Comparatively, how much does the cost of a union add to the cost of doing business? And how much did UAW give back in negotiations to keep the company afloat?

And while we’re at it, how much does the cost of management salaries add to the equation?

Obama is paying workers to stay home? That’s one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that if those payments weren’t made, not only would people be suffering right now, but so would affiliate businesses of automakers, as well as non-affiliated and local businesses in the areas where autoworkers live. It’s an investment in human decency and I don’t mind it. It’s also a good economic decision not to let the Detroit woes ruin other businesses.

Marxism? That’s a bit paranoid. The pendulum of power is swinging back from the years of oligarchy, and maybe, for now, things are tilted a bit more to the working class. Anytime you abruptly change the culture of any institution (and I’m referring to business culture), the change itself will seem a change to the opposite extreme. But the pendulum will settle, and no union takeover will be realized. Nor will this nonsense about government-owned means of production. What you see today is merely a shift away from the old, tired and unfair way of doing business.

You quote some good statistics, and they are relevant. But they can’t be viewed in a vacuum.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

Re Jor-El’s comment: GM’s medical benefits alone cost over $50 billion a year which adds $2000.00 to the price of a car.

Good point for Health Care Reforms now being discussed and voted on in Congress. I remember reading about how health care coverage was provided by employers around the 30’s and 40’s as an incentive for folks to work for them at boring/repetitive jobs.

Health Care Insurance coverage has become a “luxury” most folks can’t afford…do U pay for your own? What’s your monthly premium? What’s your yearly deductable? Why aren’t Medical Insurance Companies advertising their prices like auto or home/renters insurance companies do? They pay enough to lobbyists…
popcorndave said, 4 months ago

Far left, could you please hit the turntable. Your record is skipping and we keep hearing the same thing every day about how bad Carl Moore is.

Why bother coming if you hate it so much? Carl’s entitled to his opinions just as much as you are, isn’t he?
WebEditor said, 4 months ago

WebEditor says …

EMET said:

”The ink of a prophet is better than the blood of martyr.”

EMET really meant”

“I am a prophet. Heed my words.”

WebEditor also says …

“And paper covers rock. And fire burns paper. And water quells water. And frost solidifies water. And an ice chipper breaks ice. And oxidation rusts the metal in the ice chipper. And that means that your ideas are no more important than anyone else’s.”

WebEditor says …

Groucho Marx said:

“Time may heal all wounds, but time also wounds all heels.”

WebEditor is a free service that searches for poor use of the English language. WebEditor also likes to use one’s own words to mock their own self-importance.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

farleftside - glad you post here cause someone referred to your farleftside.com website. If they hadn’t, I wouldn’t have known about it. Loved the Monsanto/Baby crossbreed one. Just noticed the line above the cartoon strip (usually) changes with each cartoon - an innovation I haven’t seen used elsewhere.

BTW - I helped my dad on his farm a few years ago. After my older brother passed away I had to take classes & a test from the local Extension Service to become a Certified Pesticide Handler (just to buy they & take them home from the local grain elevator).

What I didn’t know was the legal contract I had to sign (required for purchasing hybrid seeds) stating I wouldn’t save seeds from one season to the next. If I (or my father) did, we would lose the “privilege” of buying them in the future & be fined for doing so.
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

I am not bashing blue collar workers–the heart and soul of the United States.

And I am no fan of the Madoff crowd who deserve to spend eternity somewhere very hot.

Nor do I give a pass to the auto executives.

Let’s try and distill all these numbers:

GM pays an average compensation package (including wages and benefits) of $75.00/hr.

Toyota and Honda pay an average of $48.00/hr.

That puts American companies at a huge disadvantage.

When a Japanese plant opens in the United States, typically, 30,000 workers will apply for the 2000 available jobs.

Can we agree that $48.00/hr is not a poverty wage considering that the average American worker only makes $27.00/hr in total compensation?

And I do agree that medical costs are too expensive, but I don’t believe that the government should be in the business of providing health care.

Our friends in Canada can tell you horror stories about government provided medicine.

In England, as well, the government has to ration care. If you are too old, or sick the government denies you benefits.

Britain has decided to deny life-saving drugs from patients suffering from breast and uterine cancer because the drugs are too expensive.

Under government health care, a bureaucrat will determine who lives or dies simply based on the cost of treatment.

That is why Canadians and Brits come to America for health care.

Yes, we need a solution to rising costs, but it has to be a free market solution.
johnnydoc5 said, 4 months ago

I remember watching Delphi go down in Michigan a few years ago, I must say it certainly seemed more the fault of the union, but that was my opinion after reviewing the evidence. I think they had a big hand in the bleeep that went on with GM too. However, and this is a radical idea, I think that both corporate and the UAW were to blame in this case. I am liking the debate here today, it is helping to let me see multiple sides of the story, keep up the good work.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

“Ooooh, Oooooh, Oooooh” This is just too easy:

Re: WebEditor posted (unless edited his/her post while I’ve been writing this post):
““And paper covers rock. And fire burns paper. And water quells water….”

Water quells water doesn’t quite follow the flow/pattern/logical progression ;-)

Re: Jor-El posted: “Our friends in Canada can tell you horror stories about government provided medicine.” There’s enough “horror stories” regarding quality issues at US hospitals.

Try Googling: cost control issues hospitals staffing issues
Check out an article found at nursingworld.org and the periodical “The Online Journal of Issues in Nursing) Volume112006/No2”.

I remember working in a 360 bed hospital back in the 1970’s and heard about how consultants were hired by management to figure out the best patient/nurse ratio staffing (probably to maximize profit margins by reducing staffing costs). This was at a “non-profit” hospital. Bless the Nurses who keep “really good records” and try to take care of themselves as well as their patients.

I won’t go into posting about infection control issues - but how about them “SARS”!
BirishB said, 4 months ago

Let’s dispel some myths:

The $75.00/hr number is a disingenuous myth. That $75.00 number comes from a Big Three estimation of what a senior line worker (10, 15 year plus) would make with overtime and medical benefits factored in. And the estimation was taken from average salaries prior to the UAW renegotiating its collective bargaining with Big Three (and that renegotiation was mid-term; UAW had a legally binding contract, but for the preservation of Big Three, decided it was best to sit down at the bargaining table).

In actuality, post-renegotiation, the average is far, far closer to the $48.00 that foreign auto makers pay. I’ve seen an estimate as low as $35.00/hr for recent hires. And, yes, that includes benefits. As well, many plants no longer have production demands, so overtime becomes a moot point. In fact, the average union wage with benefits is only marginally higher than what foreign automakers pay. And, again, this is a cost that could be wrapped into the sale price because American auto buyers will pay more for quality or lower fuel efficiency.

As for healthcare, look no further than France that has the 7th highest ranked quality of healthcare in the world and the 7th lowest cost of delivery. I think the US is 1st and 35th, respectively. France is currently suffering from a slowing of new doctors because they went too far to the opposite extreme in compensation, but there are valuable lessons to learn. Equally, the stories out of Canada and the UK are not representative of what is generally delivered. They are “sometimes” scenarios.

These facts pertain to a socialized healthcare system with no private delivery of care. However, the current proposals in Washington do not propose socialized care. Every single proposal saves a place at the table for private care. If we were to go socialized, the results would not be as disastrous as predicted. But that is not what is being talked about.

What is being talked about is healthcare as a safety net, especially for the 20 million or so children younger than 18 with no coverage. What is being talked about are reforms that will bring the cost of care in this country down by leaps and bounds so that it is no longer the most expensive healthcare system in the industrialized world.

You say people travel to the US for care? And I can tell you that people in the US travel to Canada and Mexico to go to the pharmacy. And I can tell you that US citizens take medical vacations to get treatments that our antiquated regulatory system does not review – or does, but cannot approve because of our overtly litigious society.

And you say the solution must be a free market solution? But what has the free market done but drive up the cost of healthcare? The free market has failed to deliver quality, low cost care. Because it has, and because healthcare spending is 15% of GDP and rising, the government must intercede for the sake of our economy. The reforms from Washington are more than appropriate – they are also long, long overdue.
BirishB said, 4 months ago

GJ …

Horror stories?

Check out “donut hole medicare” on Google. Medicare is a crime against our seniors. Reform is badly, badly needed. Part D is just scheme perpetuated for the benefit of private payers.

And if anyone is ever interested to see the lengths private payers go to to deny coverage, try reading through the medical policy statements available on most private payer’s websites. They’re well hidden, but oh boy are they revealing.

If you think government makes cost-conscience decision on delivery of care, then wait ‘til you find out what kind of decisions private payers make. They are sickening. Let’s not mention that when a private payer denys FDA-approved care, they are acting as a quasi-regulatory body well beyond their legal reach.

The problem with medicare and the managed care system is that they do the math on the wrong side of the equation. They take medicine that costs $100 to produce and sell it to you for $75. That extra $25 gets realized in the cost of coverage – except that it is realized as $50 after private payers unnecessarily jack up the cost of a policy. But managed care – and the free market system – never works on reducing the cost on the correct side of the equation.
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

@johnnydoc5:

My elementary school teacher always confiscated my comic books—something about how they would rot my brain.

She always said that she would return the comics in a couple of days, and I’d respond by saying something sarcastic like, “Why, does it take you that long to read them?”

Anyway, people who read comics are thoughtful, intelligent and somewhat more savvy than the people who run government and industry.

Keep reading the comics!
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

Great debate.

The problem with Obama’s health care plan is that it could put private payers out of business.

If you are uninsured or underinsured–or even if you don’t like your health coverage–you can opt out and sign-up for Obama’s plan.

Millions of people could decide to do just that causing private insurers to go out of business.

In the end, competition is what keeps prices down and choices available; but in the scenario I described the government would be the end provider.

Rationing of health care would be the end result.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

Jor-El posted: “Anyway, people who read comics are thoughtful, intelligent and somewhat more savvy than the people who run government and industry.”

Thanks for the compliment! I passed along my comic book collection to my nephew which included # 1 Dare Devil (paid 12 cents for it brand new). Figured he’d take good care of my 200+ collection after he got on my case for leaving them for years in a big box in my closet - not wrapped up in plastic bags.
Do U remember who used to say “Jumping Jehosapht”? Clark Kent’s editor Perry White at the Daily Planet. I have enough sense not to use an copy cat superman shield as an avatar.
Jor-El said, 4 months ago

@GJ_Jehosaphat:

Perry White also said, “Great Caesar’s ghost!” and “don’t call me ‘chief’”.

We should do a thread of great comic book quotes.
BirishB said, 4 months ago

Aha.

And here is where compromise can be found.

Obama’s plan is a step in the right direction. But it cannot be the only step.

I do not think that healthcare is a realm that is best served by being completely private or completely socialized. I think it is best served by a blended approach. I also think medicine is not a typical bottom-line business, but rather exists for the public good, and so cannot be a private entity. And, lastly, I think it is appropriate for government to step in when private industry either fails the public good, or when private action is injurious to the public good.

In that vein, I see it as appropriate that insurance companies should sell policies – nationally – like Allstate sells car insurance (an idea suggested by Karl Rove). Let competition drive down the price of policies and let insurance companies expand their reach to acquire bulk purchasing power, which will also lower cost.

But, because some 20 million Americans will reach the age of 50+ by 2020; because of the crisis of obesity and diabetes; and because the cost of healthcare has spiraled out of control, I see it as proper that government intercedes for the preservation of itself, private interest, and the public good. And so, I see a role for government plans as a true safety net – because healthcare is a right, not a privilege.

Public and private interests already collaborate in the world of R&D. Public grant money – from the NIH in particular – although hard to come by, is what funds basic science that private industry later uses in drug and therapy R&D.

If this public-private partnership has already proven to work in the delivery of products, why couldn’t it work in the delivery of care?
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

BirishB - Re: Medicare Part D. Would U believe I went to a workshop training session for volunteers who wanted to help Senior Citizens sign-up for prescription benefits? It was back when Part D was being touted as a new benefit by the Bush Administration.
I never completed the training cause of what I observed being taught to volunteers - HIPAA has strict requirements & they wanted volunteers to ask folks about their medications in a public (library) setting. There are some lines I won’t cross.

“They” made it complicated with the so-called Donut Hole coverage. Technology makes it possible by using medical software programs developed to fill prescriptions. All that “Hoo Ha” regarding difficulties in Electronic Record Keeping - could be helped by folks in the insurance industry by sharing how “They” overcome difficulties with different software/hardware platforms & communication solutions. Oh, that’s right - proprietary laws and profits….

Insurance companies make medical procedure & drug coverage decisions (prior authorizations, refill too soon, etc) all the time. This is done via computers &/or talking to customer service reps.

Jor-el posted: “Under government health care, a bureaucrat will determine who lives or dies simply based on the cost of treatment.”

Who do you think decides what’s covered (or not) - insurance companies. I won’t plug Michael Moore’s documentary/commentary about the state of medical care and insurance coverage because it’s probably been referred to before. Who doesn’t have some sort of pre-existing condition “They” can use to deny benefits.
BirishB said, 4 months ago

GJ …

Just heard this and it made me throw up in my mouth.

Center for Medicare and Medicaid services has proposed a 21.5% reduction in compensation for physicians who see Medicare patients in 2010. And who, exactly, is going to see Medicare patients after taking a 21.5% pay cut? No one. Or vastly underqualified physicians.

Talk about crimes against our seniors.

It’s just more evidence that we need to fix this broken system when CMS needs to cut compensation so deeply just to keep pace with the rising cost of delivering care.
WebEditor said, 4 months ago

WebEditor says …

GJ_Jehosophat said:

“Re: WebEditor posted (unless edited his/her post while I’ve been writing this post):
““And paper covers rock. And fire burns paper. And water quells water….”
Water quells water doesn’t quite follow the flow/pattern/logical progression ;-)”

WebEditor responds:

“An old axiom in publishing goes, if you want to find a mistake, publish it.”

WebEditor is a free service that seeks out poor use of the English language. WebEditor would be wise to follow the assumed rule of editors to never be seen. This is why WebEditor likes to deal only in other people’s words.
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

BirishB - Re: CMS & proposed reductions of reimbursements: Wow - And with states going broke, there’s probably gonna be a lot of folks who receive Medicaid health benefits are gonna be hurting.

“Would you believe” (Maxwell Smart line) I used to work in a privately run Nursing/Convalescent facility back in the 80’s. I observed how clients used up all their savings and ended up being Medicaid recipients. That was back when semi-private room costs were around $120 a day. Don’t know what they cost now - but like everything else….

Have an “oops” car accident & end up having to spend some time in one (for nursing &/or physical therapy) can make more folks end up in the proverbial “Poor House”. Nursing Homes are not just for the elderly…
GJ_Jehosaphat said, 4 months ago

BirishB: Did U see the story on the CNN website?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/02/insurance.purging/index.html

More revealing information about the insurance industry from someone who worked for one company & what he observed…
sablebrush5 said, 4 months ago

Here’s a link to a terrific piece by Alan Reynolds on GM, CAFE standards and the American car market.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124649332091983175.html
sherpafree said, 4 months ago

Not at all, youse people always doin it half-a**ed.

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