Lisa Benson by Lisa Benson

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  1. believecommonsense

    believecommonsenseGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Sigh … Benson must be buying the lies …

    I’m going to be serious here in my response because this is such a critical point.

    The proposal to reimburse physicians for end of life counseling is a benefit to patients and physicians. A physician could, at the patient’s request, explain what their options are for making their choices known to their families and their family doctor. That could include assigning a healthcare proxy to a designated person, or establishing “advanced directives” about situations when a person would want extraordinary measures used and when they would not.

    A personal example might help folks understand the concept. My brother-in-law, a very healthy 54-year-old, had a cardiac event while in his car going to work. He had an abnormal rhythm which stopped his heart. He was driving on city streets, so car coasted to a stop. 911 was called and eventually paramedics started his heart again and he was taken to the local community hospital.

    However, it took some minutes before his heart started and he did not regain consciousness. Other than a small bump on his head, he appeared normal. He breathed with the aid of a ventilator. his heart had almost no damage.

    Hospital officials took brain scans but said nothing could be definitive until his brain swelling went down. He was in the hospital six days, remaining in a coma, before top experts came in from USC Medical Center and read his brain scans. They told my sister he was brain dead, explained the EEG readings, etc.

    I want to explain how difficult this is because my BIL looked so normal. But my sister and her husband had discussed their wishes with each other and my sister knew what her husband wanted. She had his healthcare proxy. Thirty-six hours after being told he was brain dead, my sister removed the ventilator. it took about 24 more hours before he died.

    This is what this proposal about … allowing a difficult subject people want to avoid to become more of the ongoing dialogue people have with their family doctors and their family.

    it’s a good thing and writing this makes me realize I need to do that soon myself as I’m on the downhill slope. it’s a good thing.

  2. moosegirl

    moosegirl said, 3 months ago

    Geez people! Grow up and grow a spine! Exercise your personal responsibility and get this done yourselves.
    Everyone knows they’re going to die sometime. Any living person today, who is literate, and not living in a vacuum, should already know about health care directives, living wills, trusts, power of attorney, etc.
    We didn’t need any government to tell us, or “counsel” us about “end-of-life” planning.
    It took a reasonable attorney only a short time to create all the documents we needed. That included our appointment, and any phone calls, questions, and e-mails. Total cost was about $1500.00. Different situations may cost more or less. Many can be done for about $1000.00 or less. Simple wills can be even cheaper. It all depends on your situation and location.
    That’s a lot cheaper than the taxes it will take to pay for government interference and bungling. We didn’t need any government (read “tax”) supported “counseling”, and neither does anyone else. Why would they? Information is already available on-line or at your library.

  3. HUMPHRIES

    HUMPHRIESGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    moosegirl, one fallicy with your post. Most people DON’T know what you do, nor have the resources.

  4. believecommonsense

    believecommonsenseGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    ^ ditto Humphs

    and the evidence says otherwise, moosegirl. This happens in hospitals every day.

    Your post also misses the point of toon, which suggests that such counseling is tantamount to “involuntary” assisted suicide. Note the caption and the scissors.

    And a healthcare proxy doesn’t require an attorney, just for those who read this and think they might want to do it. A healthcare proxy or advanced directive can be picked up at your local hospital and discussed with family members and completed for zero cost. It does not require a will or power of attorney and is commonly done without an attorney.

    The incomplete and misleading info moosegirl just gave is a very good reason why this counseling is beneficial.

  5. tjdestry

    tjdestryGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    But moosegirl’s posting is a good statement of Republican strategy – I’ve got mine and to hell with you. If you don’t have the $1500, you don’t get to make the decision. If you don’t have the education, you don’t get to make the decision. And if you don’t have the resources I have, it’s your fault and you deserve to suffer.

  6. 4uk4ata

    4uk4ata said, 3 months ago

    Guys, give moosegirl some slack. moosegirl, how much do you think whatever the physicians will get for that come to, when you break it down per insured person? I think it might be quite a bit under 1500.

    It might be strange to some, but sometimes universal services are cheaper and more effective. Wasn’t there a term “economy of scale”?

  7. LibrarianInTraining

    LibrarianInTraining said, 3 months ago

    My grandmother printed her living will off the internet, signed it, had it notarized, and it was considered legal in the state of Florida.

    There’s plenty of information on end-of-life options. I don’t think we need the government telling us what they are.

    Believecommonsense, I’m sorry for your loss. But physicians in those situations already DO get reimbursed for their services in that department. I work in health care, and my coworker is the billing specialist. The physician is required by law to explain every available option for a patient’s care, including surgeries, medications, therapies, and palliative (end-of-life) options.

    All the Obama plan would do is recommend that a patient get counseled on a more frequent basis (every five years) in case they changed their minds. It does happen, but truth be told, I’ve never known anyone who personally changed their mind.

    And I worry that the “counselors” might lean too strongly in one particular direction. It sounds a little Hitler-ish to convince people that their lives aren’t worth living. Being brain dead is one thing. If they have a living will that demands that life support be removed, then by all means. But just because you’re old and don’t experience the same “quality of life” you did when you were 40 or even 60? Not a reason to off yourself.

  8. harleyquinn

    harleyquinnGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Hey satipera4 you just posted,
    As for the rest of you, personal responsibility.
    try it some time, it might be the best thing you do.

  9. edrush

    edrush said, 3 months ago

    Quick, cut loose the guy who’s making sense, lest someone actually start listening to him!

  10. dtroutma

    dtroutma said, 3 months ago

    That’s just Sarah Palin cutting loose the guy who actually READ the plan, and dumping him for fear the truth will drag her off her rock, or out from under it?

  11. calspace

    calspaceGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    I understand what you’re saying, believecommonsense, but another way to look at this is that the guy who is terrified that “end of life counseling” might be a code word for “assisted suicide” is already committing suicide through his life choices. Note that while this guy is not youthful, he is not nearly as old as the person about to cut him off, who while elderly is slender and (apparently) physically active. Meanwhile, the overweight guy who is being dragged up the mountain is worried about whether the government wants him to die early.

  12. believecommonsense

    believecommonsenseGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    dtroutma, good alternate analogy.

    LibrarianinTraining, thanks for sharing your grandmother’s story and confirming one doesn’t have to spend big bucks on attorneys to find/create a legal document on end of life decisions.

    I agree it is commonplace to physicians to provide end-of-life counseling for patients who are at that point. It is rather standard, I think, for hospitals to ask if there is a healthcare proxy or advance directive of anyone going into hospital for any reason. It’s the “out-of-the-blue” occurrence, like that of my BIL, where many people find themselves in situations with spouse or family members and no discussions about their wishes were ever held.

    But just reading these posts seems to prove that most people understand the point of the proposal for end-of-life counseling is not euthanasia or “involuntary assisted suicide” as Benson’s toon implies.

    Personally, it would not crush me if this part of the proposal doesn’t make it to a final bill. I do believe the intent is to benefit both patients and physicians.

  13. wbr

    wbr said, 3 months ago

    dfish i am correcting typo
    That’s just michelle obama cutting loose the guy who actually READ the plan, and dumping him for fear the truth will drag her and hubby off her rock, or out from under it

  14. charliekane

    charliekane said, 3 months ago

    Life is kindofa “lame duck” thing. Maybe we all oughtta just give it up and check out early. You betcha!

    ;-P

  15. Corosive Frog

    Corosive Frog said, 3 months ago

    I don’t think anyone (not even”evil” and “pervert” democrats) wants to go into hospitals and pull the plug or kill everyone, and certainly not kill Palin’s baby.

    It is a very complex issue. I have two cases I want to tell you about; My grandmother and my father in law.

    My grandmother had terminal cancer. They gave her blood transfusions and a few hours later, the blood was in her diapers. The doctors wanted to give her treatments to allow her to live three more months. My mother refused them. She died in April 1991.

    On the complete opposite, there is my father in law who had a heart attack two weeks ago. After a week of being in a coma, the doctors and family decided that they’d wait another week and then pull the plug if there wasn’t any improvement. Last saturday, he woke up.

    What I mean with this is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Every individual has to take a decision and live with the consequences.

    Also, keep in mind that neither of those two cases were young people who have years of life ahead of them but somebody decides it’s a life not worth living because they are in a wheelchair or something. My grand mother had only weeks in the best of scenarios and the more time went by, the more my father in law was likely to be in that coma forever.

    Again, I think comparing that to Nazi actions, which really pulled people out of their homes at gunpoint because of a minor defect, crammed them into gas chambers and then incinerated them, sometimes while they were still moving, is a disrespectful underestimation of what was going on back then.

  16. benbrilling

    benbrillingGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Admit it. You guys are jumping on any lame excuse that comes along to criticize Obama. And some of your reasons for doing so aren’t very pretty.

  17. DrCanuck

    DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

    Aside from all this Obama-imposed silliness, what’s wrong with patient-initiated assisted suicide?

  18. George Trail

    George TrailGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Anybody notice that the obese dude being cut loose is carrying an AARP backpack, in addition to his Obama Care bag? How about the caption? is is, or not, assisted “suicide”?
    There is no indication that red shirt fatty wants to die, so might the cartoonist’s point be that fat boy AARP, being “supported” (literally here) by the fit, is authorizing unwittingly the killing of himself and others? Hence the puller supporting his weight and dragging him up the mountain is cutting him loose in a kind of mercy killing to save others from the fate he doesn’t even know he is falling for? (I don’t say I agree that is the case, but I do suggest that that is the cartoonist’s point, and thus that the toon is part of the scare euthenasia/involultary suicides tactics of the status quo right.

  19. nomad2112

    nomad2112 said, 3 months ago

    Doc, you really need come counseling yourself.

  20. wminfield

    wminfieldGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    How about that seniors (who have always supported AARP) may be cutting ties with a fat and happy AARP which is getting in bed with the Obama administration with this program. Seniors may or may not benefit from this program and they might not support AARP since there is a chance that end of life counseling could be interpreted a number of different ways until the courts decide what it actually means. Keep it vague so the trial lawyers can stay happy.

  21. DrCanuck

    DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

    nomad: can you muster up any reasons or are simple insults the extent of your intellectual abilities?

  22. DrCanuck

    DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

    Edgar, you don’t really need panels. Here in Canada, when the old people’s teeth get too worn down to chew walrus hide to soften it, we just leave them out on the ice floes for the polar bears. If they’re not contributing, they might as well help out the wildlife.
    I hear Obama has a similar idea in this bill….

  23. fennec

    fennec said, 3 months ago

    To be more serious, both my parents died of cancer in long drawn-out illnesses. Both asked me to help them die…I couldn’t because (1) I didn’t have the knowledge to do it (being a biologist is not enough) and (2) it was illegal. If the option now exisiting in Oregon had been available then, I am sure they would have exercised it, not necessarily to end their lives but to know they had the option if they wanted to. Until you’ve been there, maybe don’t pass judgment.

  24. DrCanuck

    DrCanuck said, 3 months ago

    fennec, more and more people are coming around to your way of thinking. It’s a matter of time.

  25. NoFearPup

    NoFearPupGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Why is it even in an health care bill? It has nothing to do with why some (few or many) can’t get decent health care. You Libs have more time than sense, and the time you have is running out…

  26. wolfhoundblues1

    wolfhoundblues1 said, 3 months ago

    As long as congress accepts the same plan as the rest of us.

  27. HUMPHRIES

    HUMPHRIESGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    puppy, have you even figgured out what a “lib” is yet or just parroting daddy again ?

  28. NoFearPup

    NoFearPupGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Whose Daddy? My Dad’s an old school Democrat; he hates Cheney and Bush. A lib is someone who can’t come to terms with reality, and substitutes alternate truths for real truths. And likes to believe an unborn infant is not a person nor his responsibility when it gets killed under the authority of U.S. Law.

  29. HUMPHRIES

    HUMPHRIESGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    puppy … you’re not at all convencing, more like full of BS.

  30. acellist

    acellistGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Your ”truth” can be found where your “reality” leads…

    http://bernie.cncfamily.com/k_pathless.htm

  31. acellist

    acellistGenius_badge said, 3 months ago

    Proves my point!