Jerry Holbert by Jerry Holbert

Jerry Holbert

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  1. Uncle Joe

    Uncle Joe GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    Can’t remember the source, but someone once said, “To make a million dollars with nothing is hard. To make a million dollars with ten million is inevitable.”

  2. ConserveGov

    ConserveGov said, about 3 years ago

    Maybe the corrupt Democrats who got rich while running that city into the ground will pay the residents back…….

  3. Radish

    Radish GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    How could Michigan officials possibly talk about cutting the average $19,000-a-year pension benefit for municipal workers while reaffirming their pledge of $283 million in taxpayer money to a professional hockey stadium?
    .
    In the conservative telling of this particular parable, Detroit faces a fiscal emergency because high taxes supposedly drove a mass exodus from the city, and the supposedly unbridled greed of unions forced city leaders to make fiscally irresponsible pension promises to municipal employees. Written out of the tale is any serious analysis of macroeconomic shifts, international economic policy failures, the geography of recent recessions and unsustainable corporate welfare spending.

    This is classic right-wing dogma — the kind that employs selective storytelling to use a tragic event as a means to radical ends. In this case, the ends are — big shocker! — three of the conservative movement’s larger long-term economic priorities: 1) preservation of job-killing trade policies 2) immunity for corporations and 3) justification for budget policies that continue to profligately subsidize the rich.
    .
    http://www.salon.com/2013/07/23/dont_buy_the_right_wing_myth_about_detroit/

  4. mikefive

    mikefive said, about 3 years ago

    @Radish

    Salon as a source? It’s a political advocacy site.

  5. Bruce4671

    Bruce4671 said, about 3 years ago

    @Radish

    OK Radish, let’s assume that the Salon article has some merit. So tell me, citing another source other than Salon, why did a city under democrat leadership for the last 60 years finally end up in such a state of disrepair and bankrupt?

    What happened to the tax base and why?

    What was the budget based on?

    I agree that corporate greed and mismanagement was part of it.

  6. Radish

    Radish GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    E mail the guy who wrote the Salon article and ask him.

  7. STLDan

    STLDan said, about 3 years ago

    @ConserveGov

    As long as we are making statements without any sort of factual backing let me try: ConserveGov stopped taking meds for what is obviously a serious mental problem.

  8. STLDan

    STLDan said, about 3 years ago

    @mikefive

    Most of the conservative comments I see on here are just straight up FoxNews talking pints lololol (see ConserveGov for many many many examples)

  9. STLDan

    STLDan said, about 3 years ago

    Ah so you are ready to blame Dems quick enough but how about the economic implosion under Bush? If you want to blame one group for something you better boame the other in like fasion or you are just a partisan blowhard. So which is it?

  10. STLDan

    STLDan said, about 3 years ago

    How did corporations treat the workers before Unions? Go pick up a history book. How did the banks do when Bush cut regulations? Remeber 2008 or is that too far back for you? HIstory is far from one sided no matter how much the right likes to view it that way

  11. wbr

    wbr said, about 3 years ago

    i was surprised that detriot pensions are not high
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/23/retirement/detroit-pensions/index.html

  12. mikefive

    mikefive said, about 3 years ago

    @STLDan

    I did. Giving no source site doesn’t give me the opportunity to bash it.

  13. jack75287

    jack75287 said, about 3 years ago

    Detroit got the government it deserved. They haven’t changed Political Parties in what forty years, what do you think is going to happen when there are no consequences, of all things, when someone is in a position of power consequences is the best thing for him or her.

  14. Uncle Joe

    Uncle Joe GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    " the union organized maf…. er.. bosses that I am sure knew this was coming and sooner not later…"

    And yet, management did not see it coming? Do you think the union leadership was smarter than corporate leadership? Or are you saying neither one cared to be honest?

  15. Uncle Joe

    Uncle Joe GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    @Bruce4671

    Unsurprisingly, you’re asking the right questions. I’ll throw out my answers, though ultimately this comes down to the residents of Detroit & all of Michigan.

    “Why did a city under democrat leadership for the last 60 years finally end up in such a state of disrepair and bankrupt?”
    Detroit actually had Republican mayors from 1950 to 1962. Democrats have held the job ever since. I would characterize the Democrats as a bunch of guys trying to bail out the Titanic with plastic buckets. Noble intent, deluded about what was possible.

    “What happened to the tax base and why?”

    In 1960, Detroit had the highest per capita income of any major American City. Up until the 70’s, Detroit’s problem was mainly the white flight that occurred in most Rust Belt cities. Detroit’s population shrunk slightly, but the region was still growing fast. Detroit saw their GDP start to shrink, but the situation wasn’t alarming. Then the gas crisis struck & the American automakers were basically caught with their pants down. I fault the CEOs who did not pay attention to world events. They assumed oil prices were going to return to previous levels & kept basing their plans on churning out big sedans. Big mistake. They wound up losing huge amounts of market share to imports, & couldn’t figure out how to make a decent, gas efficient car, until the 90s. In the meantime, Detroit lost a huge amount of jobs. Even as the American auto makers started to rally, automation reduced the number of employees needed on the line. Eventually, residents started figuring out that the jobs weren’t coming back & left in droves.

    The smart thing would have been to start de-incorporating areas that had lost so much population that maintaining infrastructure wasn’t worth it. Let the state figure out whether to step in or start forcing people to move. There is no precedent for such a move, as far as I know.

    “What was the budget based on?”

    I don’t think Detroit really had issues on the budget until the 80s. After that, smoke & mirrors, viewed through rose colored glasses. No one wanted to admit that Detroit was never going to come back, especially the folks who still lived there. Hard decisions were put off. The real problem wasn’t super generous pensions, it was massive job loss.

    Nearly one third of the city is essentially vacant. I’ve been seeing proposals for relocating residents to a smaller, urban core. It makes sense in a big picture way, but how do you accomplish such a thing?

    A couple of notes:

    Even in 1970, Detroit was still doing ok on per capita income, but then the bottom dropped out. The numbers have actually rebounded somewhat. There is a small area of urban renewal, but nothing compared to Chicago or even Pittsburgh. Given the population decline, its nowhere near enough, unless Detroit makes the hard choice to turn over large swaths to the state.

    By the time American car makers were recovering in the 90s, no one wanted to set up shop in Detroit. It wasn’t just taxes. Detroit had lost much of their capable work force. Automakers opened shops in Detroit’s suburbs, but many of the suppliers went to Mexico after NAFTA.

    The population loss can not be underestimated in figuring out why they are bankrupt.. Most conservatives would agree that people leaving Detroit for places where jobs are available is a good thing. But the people who worked for the city when the population was more than double what it is now, should not lose their pensions.

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